'The' Gun Thread (Page 25)

You stop letting violent criminals back on the street.  See, you target the problem instead of taking the path of least resistence.  Criminals steal stuff.  I'm not saying that to mock you so don't take it that way.  I'm just saying that the problem is not straw purchases (correct term for "shill buying").  I Philly, I once looked up the history of police officers that had be shot on the job over a period of time.  All but one was shot by a guy with a previous record.  I personally feel the parole board should be held accountable.  Instead, Mayor Nutter (appropriate name) holds up a rifle and places the blame. 

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:26 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:18 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:13 PM

tuwood - 2013-04-09 1:06 PM

I'll throw in the Nebraska 2 cents as well.  Zero chance you can legally purchase a handgun at a gun show here without a background check, and it's even illegal to lend/sell/transfer a handgun to a private citizen anywhere without them showing you a state handgun purchase permit to prove a background check was done.  It may shock you to hear this, but I have absolutely no problem with this law.  It's very unobtrusive and costs me $5 every three years to get a new background check and a permit.  The best part is I don't have to sit and wait for a NICS check at the gun store.  just show them your permit and your on your way.

My wife had to get her purchase permit to legally borrow a handgun from a friend of ours to take it to the range.

Completely sensible. Is the serial number then registered to you?

Ah But is this not the equivalent of your poll tax?

 

That's likely the cost to administer the program. But perhaps you could draw the hyperbole that my exercising my right to vote places a financial penalty on my town who have to pay poll workers, maintain systems to count votes (but not true in Florida ). Perhaps that cost for a backgrond check IS a financial burden to exercise a constitutional right. So, we dump the cost into the general fund? That'll go over like a fart in church.

Why is it hyperbole?  It seems to me to be a direct correlation.  Pay a 5 dollar fee to vote ever 4 years or we will not let you vote.  This is of course to cover our operating costs to maintain a database of your voting record.

Ah yes, this sort of thinking has stopped cold the illegal use of Oxycontin in FL...

I forget the form name, but they fill out the federal purchase form that records my info and the SN of the gun.  I have no clue what they do with it after I leave the store, but I imagine they have to keep them on hand for audit purposes.

For private transactions there are no such forms that are filled out, it is the typical here's $300, thanks and here's your gun.  However, the seller is committing a crime if he/she doesn't verify I have a purchase permit prior to transferring the gun to me.

Define what that means.  Are you expecting NICs to expand to provide a National Reciprocity and handle NFA transactions as well?  With that will you force states to not do any checks?  Get rid of retaining person to S/N firearm records and I'll take it.

Fair enough... but cars cause over 5000% more accidental deaths than guns... so if you are the same protective parent trying to save your child harm from carlessness... then your child can never be driven by anyone but you. That you will roll your eyes at anyone in their very safe Subaru that has never been in an accident, and not allow your kids around any other driver because you know only you can do that safely.

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:51 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:47 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:26 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:18 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:13 PM

tuwood - 2013-04-09 1:06 PM

I'll throw in the Nebraska 2 cents as well.  Zero chance you can legally purchase a handgun at a gun show here without a background check, and it's even illegal to lend/sell/transfer a handgun to a private citizen anywhere without them showing you a state handgun purchase permit to prove a background check was done.  It may shock you to hear this, but I have absolutely no problem with this law.  It's very unobtrusive and costs me $5 every three years to get a new background check and a permit.  The best part is I don't have to sit and wait for a NICS check at the gun store.  just show them your permit and your on your way.

My wife had to get her purchase permit to legally borrow a handgun from a friend of ours to take it to the range.

Completely sensible. Is the serial number then registered to you?

Ah But is this not the equivalent of your poll tax?

 

That's likely the cost to administer the program. But perhaps you could draw the hyperbole that my exercising my right to vote places a financial penalty on my town who have to pay poll workers, maintain systems to count votes (but not true in Florida ). Perhaps that cost for a backgrond check IS a financial burden to exercise a constitutional right. So, we dump the cost into the general fund? That'll go over like a fart in church.

Why is it hyperbole?  It seems to me to be a direct correlation.  Pay a 5 dollar fee to vote ever 4 years or we will not let you vote.  This is of course to cover our operating costs to maintain a database of your voting record.

 

No, I say that you can, by hyperbole, draw that a poll tax be implemented to cover the costs of administering a voting program. Now then; I eschew thinking that economic means to pay be a criteria to vote. I guess I'd have to support that fees on gun background checks also not exist.

Would you not then also agree that make certain that one has the right to vote one should be requred to produce ID so that we may do a back ground check on them the same as one must do to esxercise ones right to bear arms?

That is correct.  FFL's must retain form 4473.  That was key in the movie Red Dawn.  The Russian leader asked his team to go to the sporting goods stores and round up all form 4473's so they could find out who had guns.  The FFL addes the NICs transaction number so the BATFE can assure there was a valid check during an audit.  The make, model and S/N of the gun is not transferred up to a system during the phone check.  The FFL gives name, dob and other info but even SSN is not required because then you get into personal privacy laws that would require the FFLs to secure the documents in a different manner or risk identify theft issues.  To LB's point, if you introduce medial records, then the government shows how it has become it's own worst enemy since it would need new laws to handle how it will deal with operating within it's multitude of bureacracy.  Fun times man.

ya that one too

So becasue you use a car but not a gun means the argument is invalid.  Dave...... argumentum ad populum!!!

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 2:01 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:58 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:51 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:47 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:26 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:18 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:13 PM

tuwood - 2013-04-09 1:06 PM

I'll throw in the Nebraska 2 cents as well.  Zero chance you can legally purchase a handgun at a gun show here without a background check, and it's even illegal to lend/sell/transfer a handgun to a private citizen anywhere without them showing you a state handgun purchase permit to prove a background check was done.  It may shock you to hear this, but I have absolutely no problem with this law.  It's very unobtrusive and costs me $5 every three years to get a new background check and a permit.  The best part is I don't have to sit and wait for a NICS check at the gun store.  just show them your permit and your on your way.

My wife had to get her purchase permit to legally borrow a handgun from a friend of ours to take it to the range.

Completely sensible. Is the serial number then registered to you?

Ah But is this not the equivalent of your poll tax?

 

That's likely the cost to administer the program. But perhaps you could draw the hyperbole that my exercising my right to vote places a financial penalty on my town who have to pay poll workers, maintain systems to count votes (but not true in Florida ). Perhaps that cost for a backgrond check IS a financial burden to exercise a constitutional right. So, we dump the cost into the general fund? That'll go over like a fart in church.

Why is it hyperbole?  It seems to me to be a direct correlation.  Pay a 5 dollar fee to vote ever 4 years or we will not let you vote.  This is of course to cover our operating costs to maintain a database of your voting record.

 

No, I say that you can, by hyperbole, draw that a poll tax be implemented to cover the costs of administering a voting program. Now then; I eschew thinking that economic means to pay be a criteria to vote. I guess I'd have to support that fees on gun background checks also not exist.

Would you not then also agree that make certain that one has the right to vote one should be requred to produce ID so that we may do a back ground check on them the same as one must do to esxercise ones right to bear arms?

 

If we're assuming that all rights are subject to identical framework of limitations, then yes: I would have to. Despite the fact that I dislike it.

You are correct as far as I know the 2A is the only one that says Shall Not Be Infringed!

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:01 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:58 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:51 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:47 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:26 PM

trinnas - 2013-04-09 1:18 PM

pitt83 - 2013-04-09 1:13 PM

tuwood - 2013-04-09 1:06 PM

I'll throw in the Nebraska 2 cents as well.  Zero chance you can legally purchase a handgun at a gun show here without a background check, and it's even illegal to lend/sell/transfer a handgun to a private citizen anywhere without them showing you a state handgun purchase permit to prove a background check was done.  It may shock you to hear this, but I have absolutely no problem with this law.  It's very unobtrusive and costs me $5 every three years to get a new background check and a permit.  The best part is I don't have to sit and wait for a NICS check at the gun store.  just show them your permit and your on your way.

My wife had to get her purchase permit to legally borrow a handgun from a friend of ours to take it to the range.

Completely sensible. Is the serial number then registered to you?

Ah But is this not the equivalent of your poll tax?

 

That's likely the cost to administer the program. But perhaps you could draw the hyperbole that my exercising my right to vote places a financial penalty on my town who have to pay poll workers, maintain systems to count votes (but not true in Florida ). Perhaps that cost for a backgrond check IS a financial burden to exercise a constitutional right. So, we dump the cost into the general fund? That'll go over like a fart in church.

Why is it hyperbole?  It seems to me to be a direct correlation.  Pay a 5 dollar fee to vote ever 4 years or we will not let you vote.  This is of course to cover our operating costs to maintain a database of your voting record.

 

No, I say that you can, by hyperbole, draw that a poll tax be implemented to cover the costs of administering a voting program. Now then; I eschew thinking that economic means to pay be a criteria to vote. I guess I'd have to support that fees on gun background checks also not exist.

Would you not then also agree that make certain that one has the right to vote one should be requred to produce ID so that we may do a back ground check on them the same as one must do to esxercise ones right to bear arms?

 

If we're assuming that all rights are subject to identical framework of limitations, then yes: I would have to. Despite the fact that I dislike it.

Wait, what?  Do I see some progress here?    <just joking>

It is interesting with various groups how they can adamantly defend one civil right in the exact same way they're trying to tear down another.  I'm not saying you are, just generally speaking.

This goes both ways and always makes me laugh and sad at the same time.

You can't. Where there is a demand, there will be a supply.... what do you not understand about the illegal drug trade?

Let's get this straight... I have no problem with universal background checks... yet I am under no illusion that will stop criminals from getting guns. None what so ever. It will stop criminals from buying guns from legal outlets.

So... you get your hearts desire and a universal registration so you can track ever bullet and fire arm in this country... and criminals buy them from the black market shipped in from South America. What do you not understand about the illegal drug trade?

You can not stop criminals from getting guns, period.

But here is an idea... how about we stop harassing law abiding gun owners and restricting their constitutional rights? How about we erase all gun laws on the books? How about we let all drug offenders and non-violent offenders out of prison? How about we have a "Universal Gun Crime" bill. If you commit a violent crime with a gun, you just earned life in prison without the possibility of parole? Then, we can add if you are a prohibited person, and you are found guilty of possession of a fire arm.... life in prison without the possibility of parole. How about... we actually address the problem instead of the symptom... mmmkay?

Stop making sense.

So then you are saying people need to be educated as to the proper use and handling of fire arms so they are a every day occurance? That they simply need to use them more. Yes, I can get behind that proposal.

My bad.

Let's get back to how we can back door a national registry so we can stop people from doing bad things.

I didn't know it was that kind of thread.

Ohhhh... you though we were actually talking about steel guns.....

...hello... "THE" gun thread....

I'm still waiting for my odered AR lower to come in.

I hate waiting.