triOK's Group - CLOSED (Page 25)

I totally agree!!!!!!!!!

I totally agree!!!!!!!!!

Jorge,

Thank you very much for the information. I think everything you told me is correct for an athlete with regular cramping issues, but I do think I am a special case. I have trained at or above the Sprint guidelines on this website (I have slacked a little in the past 1 1/2 month due to a new job/sickness). In April I averaged 407 minutes a week or almost 7 hours.  In May I averaged 332 minutes a week or 5 1/2 hours.  June was over 6 hours per week of training.  July fell apart because of a new job and a 2 week lower respiratory cold, but I still averaged over 4 hours a week of training.  If you looked at my first race of the season Memorial Day) when I was training the most, you will notice that the course was a 200 meter swim, 8.5 mile bike and 2 mile run (a race I could have completed with no training). I was over trained for such a short race, but I still cramped. In addition, I did not come into this triathlon training as a "sluff" I am 32 YOA that has maintained an athletic build my whole life. I have suffered with cramps since I was a young teenager in sports. No matter how much training I did/do ( ex. "2 a days" in football in H.S.) I frequently cramped up.

As an adult, I will cramp up during basketball, tennis, etc. One strange thing is that I can go for 1 1/2 hour run and not experience a cramp.

There are times when I am sitting on the couch or laying in my bed when I get craps out of the blue for no reason (even on no training days). I have even gotten cramps during the intimate moments with my wife (talk about ruining the moment)

I always swim farther than the distances in the races.

I usually bike longer times than what is required. The mileage may look low because much of my miles are on the MTB, which I feel is great for training.

Unless I do a brick, my runs are always 3-6 miles.

Again, I value all the advice given on this website from the veterans of the sport, but I think I am a "special needs" case when it comes to cramping. I will try to increase my training because I would like to to a OLY, but I honestly don't see much changing. I hope/pray that I am wrong.

Thanks,

aaron

I have to weigh in on the firstriguy situation. I know Aaron well. If he is undertrained then I am really F*#$ed!!! Aaron has a very good diet, he does not drink and he eats and sleeps this stuff. He has been since January when he brought the idea to me that we should "do a triathlon". Because he has had this issue since High School, I think it is medical. He certainly was not undertrained for Varsity Basketball fifteen years ago...

Keep your head up Aaron, you are doing much better than you think you are!!

<<okie accent on>> All of y'all are stuuuuuuuds!  <<okie accent off>>

Its both... I didn't eat enough the morning of the race, didn't gel enough, and sure as hell didn't get enough water.  Because I had to catch up, I pushed too hard too early in the race and just toasted my legs.... I still had about an hour left in the race and to lay it all out there like that probably wasn't the smartest thing I could have done.  Oh well.  Lesson learned.

firstriguy -

When I used to play semi pro soccer when I was a lot younger () I used to suffer from cramping before, while or after training/playing. At the time my fitness level was immaculate (plus zero drinking) and I was able to run several miles without any issues, but still I when playing I used to suffer from bad cramping. At some point one of my coaches made me do a lot of polymetrics and more explosive training (sprints, jumping, etc) to simulate the change in pace that I would normally have in a game and which seemed to be the trigger for the cramping. Within a few months I managed to diminish the occurrence of cramping.

When I began tri training I started experiencing similar issues and after doing lots of thinking I realized I wasn’t been specific in my training in the sense that many of the miles/minutes we train are at easy/steady pace (base miles) to build up endurance, but then we get to a sprint race and we are pushing the pace a lot higher of what we have been training for. Add to that dehydration and/or electrolyte depletion and the result is bad cramping. As Dan asked, do you experience cramping during training? How is your training pace compared to your racing? Do you follow the same fueling strategy for training as for racing?

You might be right and your case might be very specific. But, what I would do is to try to have 1 session a week in which I am doing my race pace for a few minutes or in intervals to find out how/when it is more likely for cramping to affect me. i.e. if you run @ 8 min/mile but during a sprint you push to 7:30s I would have a tempo run in which most of I would run 8 min/mile with 5-10x30 seconds @ 7:30s with 30 seconds jog slower than 8s as recovery. I would do the same for the bike and swim and to take this a step further I would do some transition sessions in which I’ll do an OWS (half of it at race pace) and follow it by a bike riding a portion of it at race pace and see how your legs respond. The following week I’ll do another transition session but this time bike to run riding some portion at race pace and follow it with a run starting easy/steady and finishing it at race pace. That will also give you the opportunity to test your fuel strategy and maybe pinpoint whether using more or less electrolytes does the trick. Or maybe find out if the change in intensity is a trigger for the cramping.

Finally I would also add specific strength training to my plan to make sure I am stimulating my muscles and making them to do a bit more work so the can adapt for more stress. Bt sport specific ST, I mean running drills, running/riding hills, strides, bigger gear, stomps, etc.

Finally, by no means I want to imply that you don’t work or train hard. But when facing a problem like this in which you keep looking for answers, it is better to look into all the possible causes in hopes to find a solution. Anyway, good luck and happy training!

My Race Log

Awww... you're special.  Try not to lick the windows, OK Aaron... ?!?    Just teasing...

I think I would see an MD about it... there is obviously something going on... best of luck to you.  I hope you get it figured out!

Here guys and gals... this is why I am a moron.  If you are getting cold when you exercise, stop immediately.... heat stroke is not fun.

http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=85343&posts=9#M907828

Sorry, girl.  I missed you....

There is a website (can't remember what it is) but it will give you information on pools all across the US.  I will dig it up for you and post it here when I find it.

I that case, if you can't find a pool and won't have your bike, then just do what you can... but try to train no matter what...

I'm hoping you are right.  I had my blood analyzed by my personal physician last year for the cramps I was having on my rides.  I meet with him again tomorrow and I am going to ask to see a specialist.  Thanks. 

amiine - 2007-07-31 8:05 AM

firstriguy -

When I used to play semi pro soccer when I was a lot younger () I used to suffer from cramping before, while or after training/playing. At the time my fitness level was immaculate (plus zero drinking) and I was able to run several miles without any issues, but still I when playing I used to suffer from bad cramping. At some point one of my coaches made me do a lot of polymetrics and more explosive training (sprints, jumping, etc) to simulate the change in pace that I would normally have in a game and which seemed to be the trigger for the cramping. Within a few months I managed to diminish the occurrence of cramping.

When I began tri training I started experiencing similar issues and after doing lots of thinking I realized I wasn’t been specific in my training in the sense that many of the miles/minutes we train are at easy/steady pace (base miles) to build up endurance, but then we get to a sprint race and we are pushing the pace a lot higher of what we have been training for. Add to that dehydration and/or electrolyte depletion and the result is bad cramping. As Dan asked, do you experience cramping during training? How is your training pace compared to your racing? Do you follow the same fueling strategy for training as for racing?

You might be right and your case might be very specific. But, what I would do is to try to have 1 session a week in which I am doing my race pace for a few minutes or in intervals to find out how/when it is more likely for cramping to affect me. i.e. if you run @ 8 min/mile but during a sprint you push to 7:30s I would have a tempo run in which most of I would run 8 min/mile with 5-10x30 seconds @ 7:30s with 30 seconds jog slower than 8s as recovery. I would do the same for the bike and swim and to take this a step further I would do some transition sessions in which I’ll do an OWS (half of it at race pace) and follow it by a bike riding a portion of it at race pace and see how your legs respond. The following week I’ll do another transition session but this time bike to run riding some portion at race pace and follow it with a run starting easy/steady and finishing it at race pace. That will also give you the opportunity to test your fuel strategy and maybe pinpoint whether using more or less electrolytes does the trick. Or maybe find out if the change in intensity is a trigger for the cramping.

Finally I would also add specific strength training to my plan to make sure I am stimulating my muscles and making them to do a bit more work so the can adapt for more stress. Bt sport specific ST, I mean running drills, running/riding hills, strides, bigger gear, stomps, etc.

Finally, by no means I want to imply that you don’t work or train hard. But when facing a problem like this in which you keep looking for answers, it is better to look into all the possible causes in hopes to find a solution. Anyway, good luck and happy training!

I don't do much interval training right now, but that sounds like a good idea.  I think I will add it to my weekly schedule.  I feel like mountain biking is interval training because my legs throb on the steep hills and rest on the downs/flats.  

I feel like I am more of a "power" athlete then an endurance athlete.  For example in H.S. I was a sprinter/jumper.  I set 3 school records in the long jump, high jump and pentathlon.  At the ripe age of 32,  I can still dunk a basket ball with 2 hands (I'm 6' 190#).  I suffered from cramps in all 3 sports that I did but there were breaks in between plays or events where I could stretch the cramps out.  There is no breaks in Tris.  Before I started training for Tris, I lifted weights often and did aerobic activity just to keep the weight off.  The problem is when it comes to endurance sports.  My mind tells me to go faster and harder and treat the race like a 200 meter dash.  I want to transition into endurance sports, because there is not much satisfaction/future in basketball or jumping for an aging white boy.

Thanks for your knowledge,

aaron 

 Is that a supplement?  Or living in the water, like in Waterworld?   

Hey Robyn - I'm sure I've heard of it before, but I really don't know where, but probably within the last year.  Didn't really know much about it, but had an idea.

I found the website and see why you asked!

I was just curious to see if anyone had heard of it... since I hadn't until recently....

I was just hired on to be one of the leading R&D scientists for the company that makes it.  I will be designing nutritional supplements/vitamins for them.