Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 26)

Checking in again, and catching up on the swim posts.  I have my first sprint tri next week so I'm trying just to keep my distance up now.

However, from mid Dec to Feb I will be focusing on swim improvement.  What drills are the most important and is there an order I should work on them?

I think I rotate pretty well, but my reach isn't what it should be and I'm sure my recovery needs improvement. 

I can swim fine with a pull buoy but without I seem to struggle more.  Any tips would be great.

Thanks!

PATTI -

A few things:

• Straddling that line between improving and just having fun is often very difficult, to the point that any time you waver one way or another, don't beat up on yourself.  Our motivations can change in a heartbeat, it seems, and unless you have a real serious "A" race or two, you can allow yourself to wobble back and forth between pure fun and abject seriousness of purpose.
• As for the shoes, those seemingly sweet DS Racers.........they probably won't ever work perfectly for your foot type as you describe it ("severely flat feet").  it is maybe fortunate that you haven't have knee issues in them, but it might be that even though you are severely flat-footed, you may not be a severe over-pronator.  that is kind of suggested, in fact, by doing well in the 2150 and 2160, which are "stability" shoes as opposed to "motion-control" shoes (the former for "moderate" over-pronators, the latter category for severe over-pronators).   The 2160 likely weighs in at about 11.5oz for women, whereas the racer might be --- jeez, 5.1oz??  It's no wonder it makes you feel fast seeing as how they weigh so little, but the price you might pay won't be worth that sweet fastness/lightness.   Don't toss them yet, but just when you're doing speedier stuff, stay with the 2150/2160.
• Day off?  Good idea!  But as with most days off, don't feel you have to make thenm up later on -- just let 'em go!  The exception to that are "key" workouts in the Peak (and maybe Build) period leading up to an "A" race; otherwise, missed workouts are expendable.
• Look for a PM from me soon, okay?

DAVE -

You here?  If so, please check the posts above and below to PATTI to see if I'm pretty close to accurate about the various shoe comments.  Thanks!

PATTI again -

One other thought is that the DS Racers have so little heel-drop (maybe none?) to make them very risky for an active Achilles problem.  Without some heel elevation, your Achilles is called upon to do more work (more stretch/pull on it) in the Racers, and that's apotential problem until it is 100% fixed.

Also, try to stay away from hills for a while -- again, maybe until the Achilles healed.  It's the uphills that are the worry with Achilles, as that just adds strain on it.  Stay to the flats (this "flat" is topographically-speaking)!!!

Did some experimenting yesterday, and here goes (a nice "n=1" data set, or a datum...).

Ran only paying attention to footstrike cadence, alternating miles. Shot for 85 and 95 cadences.

mi 1: 85-86/min, HR 149, pace 8:53 min/mi - felt like my usual warm-up mile

mi2: 94-95, HR 154, 7:24 m/m - felt easy enough, but "quick and light" somehow

mi3: 86-87 (drifted up), HR 142, 9:09 m/m - nice recovery

mi4: 96-97, HR 158, 7:46 (a bit more uphill than mi2) - felt like a "just into threshold" zone run

mi5: 87-88, HR 144, 9:10 m/m - felt like I needed the recovery

mi6: 99, HR 163, 7:24 (also a bit uphill) - started to feel harder, middle of threshold zone

balance ~0.5 mi was cooldown at low 80's, 9:23 - enjoyed the sunshine on way back to office!

HR at "threshhold" (per Strava) is 157-171, and that's about right for me.  So, just with cadence (not with a stride that felt all sprinty and fast), I picked up my pace without jacking my HR too much.  Not sure if it'll hold over multiple miles...

Noticed at the end and after that my thighs were tighter than normal in my quads, whereas I usually feel it more in my "hammies" at anything ~7:30 and down. 

To go sub-7 for me requires lengthening my stride and much more from the "backs" of my legs - and my arms, core, lungs, hopes and prayers - which I suppose would also drop my cadence (or blow up my heart), but it was interesting that I could speed up just using my regular old warm-up stride - just more of them per unit time.

Next time I'm on the track and pushing 400's or 800's, I'm going to do a similar analysis (to the extent that I am able to count past "one" during those workouts) and maybe play with cadence there, as well.

My running has gotten much better over the last 6 months - almost like my late 20's when I was doing a lot more of it - as I've paid attention to it, so this is all on a base of a moving target.  Wish I could make a generalization from all of it so it could be more helpful to others, but cadence (even with a short stride) certainly works - and I suspect even better than striding when coming right off the bike in a race!

I just need to be careful not to push too hard (a la the the achilles conversation!), as I admit to being hard-headed and not listening enough to the "run lots, mostly slow..." stuff - I like speed!  But, I don't like injuries all that much. 

Now back to your regularly scheduled, and likely more useful, programming. 

Yeah Steve, you're pretty much spot on with the shoe comments. I'll add a little bit.

It's not so much that the calves are doing more work, it's that they're doing it in a range of motion to which it's not accustomed. Many times the calves (and thus the Achilles) will stay contracted longer in an attempt to avoid an (percepted) overstretch, and it keep the heel off the ground. Too much thoughts of "staying on your toes".

Make sure the lower leg is staying relaxed until toe-off (and I'd even argue it should stay pretty relaxed even then), and USE A CALF ROLLER! A lot.

gti123 - 2012-11-27 1:51 PM Question for the group (also wanted to let you know I am still around ).  This is my off season - for the next couple months.  I am currently shooting for 2 workouts per week for S/B/R.  One workout being a shorter (~45 min) more intense workout and one being a longer (~ 1 hour) easier workout.  My goal is to maintain/increase my fitness, lose a few extra lbs while not getting injured.  I am wondering if I should replace my long workout with another short more intense workout since I am trying to improve my sprint/oly times.  My concern is I will have to work back up to the longer times/distances.  What do you guys do for off season workouts?

I'm still trying to figure out how to do the whole "off season."  There was a good article in LAVA recently on common mistakes, and I heard there is one in the current Triathlete (either on this thread or over in Tri Talk) on the same.  I'd recommend perusing those, as I was making or about to make at least a couple mistakes (run-specific training, as opposed to run-focused tri-training, for instance).

My hunch is that the 'off season' is better suited to less intensity.  Heal first (while staying active), then workout in an unstructured way (whatever that means - still confused there...), then go back into serious base building, then add intensity for speed, then taper and blow away your first race.  Would love to hear if others see it that way, as well...

All that said, I'm still doing speed work and intensity, but at a lower level than right before a taper - mostly because I like it (and I'm stubborn - at least I recognize that I can be "unwise").

Just my tuppence (which is significantly more than it's likely worth!)

^^^ This really made sense when I read it (not that the rest isn't superlative and all, but this resonated).  So, I gave it a try at the pool last night.

Huzzah - as I put the reach together (timing-wise) with the pull, I rotated what felt like the "right" amount and, the bestest part, my elbow came out of the water FIRST.  This made the whole high elbow on the recovery just happen on it's own - instead of having to hitch my elbow up high and crunch down on my shoulder!

It was amazing, as I actually felt like one of those pretty swimmers instead of a paddle-boat with goggles...

Speed was good, as was breathing, when it came together in the second half of the workout.  I might have been going a little snakily again, but maybe not...  Very cool feeling, though.

Now we'll see how often those all come together, as it was a lot of "think" for the amount of "swim."  Just more yards (and hopefully the new approach will protect my L shoulder, as that's the good one and I don't want to repeat the R-sided surgery... although it sure helped that shoulder a few years back)

Many thanks!

Matt

Steve, 

Results have been posted from the Give Thanks 4 miler from Thanksgiving. Turns out I finished 20th overall. I am happy with the improvement over last year. I was telling my nephews before the race that there was a really steep incline on a railroad overpass that I remembered from the last time I ran it, then went out and ran the course and realized I hadn't even noticed a steep overpass. (It was there but I didn't struggle with it this year.)

They have not posted the series standings yet, but I know I am up on the other Doug by 8 points with two races to go. I am not running this weekend so he could make up some ground on me Saturday. I plan to run the last race on December 9th and he may be there for that. I am not sure how a head to head race would turn out. I beat him in our only head to head last spring by 20 seconds or so in a 5K. Both of us are faster now.

The December 9th race is the site of my PR for 5K from September 2012 so it will be fun to see if I can break through the 21 minute mark and under 7:00/mile mark. The sad thing about this race is they will use ten year age groups so there will be more competition. We have some tough runners in their late 40s. One guy who will be there is an iron distance guy I swim with who will probably be in the 20:00 area at age 48.

Had a great day in the pool today. I often swim 1600 yards in a set on Fridays. The last several times I have been able to finish in the 23:30 area. Today was 23:32.

Hey, folks. Happy Purple Friday as we call it here in B-more. 

More on cadence.  I did a ride on the trainer today which was as follows:

10' WU
5 x (30" 100%/30" 75%)
6 x (5' 90-95%/1' 75%), varied cadence @100/90/80/100/90/80
10' CD

For the six intervals @90-95%, I picked a target of 100, 90, and 80 cadence with the slowest one having a 1' standing effort around 70 for the first minute (to give my butt a rest ).  My current TrainerRoad/Road Machine FTP is 295 based on a 20-minute test on TR (I'm about at 207 lbs right now, so just over 3 W/kg).

Things I noticed:

1. My bike gearing is limited by my 11-28 cassette, so it's tough to "pick" a target cadence and then match the wattage.  For instance, I can't do 95 RPM/270 watts with my current setup
2. @100 RPM, it is really mentally fatiguing to maintain, and if I drift off my concentration it's really easy for the wattage to drop 20 watts without me even noticing.
3. @ 90 RPM, I had to go closer to 95% to keep @ 90, with no noticeable difference in HR.  I also can "turn my brain off" and pedal at that cadence a lot easier.
4. @70/80 RPM, my HR jumps up a bit on the standing effort, and I can get it back down @ 80.  80 doesn't feel like grinding but I can definitely feel the difference in the muscle effort (I felt more, I dunno, "powerful?").  Again HR stays more or less the same.

For my threshold workouts (like 4 x 6' @ 103% or something), I wind up around 94RPM/305W and that winds up being a good balance between mental and physical fatigue.  Maybe I'll repeat this cadence test on shorter, higher efforts and see how it goes.

I guess my conclusion is that naturally my cadence will drift towards the high 80s and with a little mental and physical concentration I can get it into the low 90s, which I'm hoping is going to be the optimum cardio/muscle balance.

What I did my first year, and what I'm doing next year, is that I have a "big" race I'd like to do towards the end of the season. (Essentially the A race.)  And from there, I try to find races that would fit in nicely training wise.  So for example for next year, I think my big race (in the US ) will be at the end of August.  From there, I have found a couple of races I would like to do in July and May.  I haven't found one that appeals to me yet for June, but I'm hoping to.  (Well, so far the only one I've found so far is an xterra race, so I'm considering that!)  But these races I think will work pretty well timing wise as they are about 4-5 weeks apart.  So I can do 3-4 weeks of volume and/or intensity, and then the 1 week rest, etc.  For me, I think I need the periodic races for motivation if nothing else.  This year I went like 2 months or something over the summer without a race, and I think that's a big reason I had a lackluster training month in June.

But I'm with you on committing to races early.  For smaller local races, I try to wait as long as possible to register.

Boy, it doesn't pay to disappear from here for a while, as things can stack up quickly.  Ack!

I will try to get unburied over the next couple of days.........especially in light of leaving next Tuesday for two weeks in California, during which time I will truly get buried.  Ack!  Ack!

Onwards.......!!!

GREG -

That's an intriguing question, with a (at least to my way of thinking) intriguing answer.

In theory - and in ultimate goal - pace will increase along with cadence.  And as you try it, you should find pace increasing; it is almost impossible to have it otherwise.  But something you might want to do, just to experience something completely different (and to isolate the mechanics of faster-feet) is to increase cadence while also working to keep at the same-old pace.   It is a very odd feeling -- if you can pull it off (it is not so easy to do!).  But although it will feel very odd, and maybe even "cartoonish"), it should bring your awareness right down to your feet and how fast they are moving.  that is NOT to say that you should be increasing to a ridiculous footspeed, and i think the best efforts at this little experiential experiment come from even the slightest nudge up wards.  So, if you are currently doing 84fpm (footfalls per minute), even going to 86 should feel significantly different.  this is especially true for people who are generally in a real running rut, kind of monospeed in all conditions and topographies.  It is less pronounced in runners who play at different speeds, depending, but having said that --- although i fell into that category (mostly), when I began to work earnestly at increasing my own cadence, i was able to feel the difference tht just a couple xtra footfalls would generate.

But that's just play, diversion, amusement....and awareness as to what your body is doing.  As i said above, yes, the ultimate goal is to increase pace.  Definitely!  For sure!  In a sense it will ahppen immeidately, but for most people that's just by way of concerted bursts or surges; it takes quiet a while to sustain higher cadence for any given race distance.  it took a few months for me to get so I could do 5km at a steady 90+ cadence..........and close to a year to do it for all of a 10km........and significantly longer (2 year?  3 years?) to be able to pull it off for a half-marathon.  The last h-m I did, 25 months ago, thrilled me because (a) I did it 1:37, and (b) every time I counted cadence, i was 90-92.  The latter was ther bigger for me, kind of indicating that I had "arrived".  Cool beans!

Be patient with this, think increments, and keep the faith in the process.  I'm sure it will make a nice, positive difference for you!

JOE -

Anthem Holiday Classic!  Cool beans!  You are soooooo lucky to be able to race in December!

Until post-race when we can see your swim time, and when you have time to reflect on how it all went in a race swim, let's wait for off-season swim strategies.  But if it's true that your reach isn't what it could be, I have two quick thought:

• work on the catch-up drill (google it, and if searching need further help, use "Total Immersion")
• at the end of your reach......give it one more push/stretch forward.  often that will come with a corresponding extra push at the end of your propulsive stroke, and some added "oomph" from the core might help

The catch-up drill will give you a sense of what it feels like to have your hands "out there", as it almost over-emphasizes the how and the why of being out there for so long.  It's a good drill for proprioreception purposes -- if I have that term right!  Plus, it's a pretty sweet and easy one to do!

As for the recovery, give me a hint as to what about might need work.  Some people preach high elbows on the recovery, others low elbows, other still sweeping arms out and around and low to the water (There may be a video of this at the website for Vasa Trainer.) I will try to find the name of the woman whose video I am thinking of. 

I shall return.

JOE again -

Got a lead for ya!

Go to www.vasatrainer.com.  Click on "Training Resources", then click on "Swimming", then scroll waaay down, past "workouts" to "technique".  About the 4th or 5th one starts a sequence narratted by Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen, and while I didn't take the time to go through all (or any) of these, I have seen a Vasa video of her talking about a kind of radical recovery phase of the stroke.  So, see what you can find --- and if I have time I will look, too. 

Even if that topic isn't there, she's good -- clear and direct, with lot sof ideas that dont' require the use of a Vasa.

As for the pull buoy -- beware!  I don't often say that to people, but for triathletes who are in places where wetsuits are seldom used, it can be a real technique-inhibitor.  Now, the flip side to non-wetsuit is for people )like me!) who do virtually all of their race swims in a wetsuit.  For them, the pull buoy can simulate what it is like to swim with a wetsuit, which often allows a swimmer with a questionable kick to still swim well (enough).  I use a p.b. frequently in the pool, but keep in mind that over the years I have "perfected" race swimming (in a wetsuit) with minimal kicking, saving my legs for the bike and run.  I come out of the water with very, very fresh legs, and I am sure it helps my bike work quite a lot.

What you say suggests that either your kick is not efficient (join the club!) or your body position is such that your legs are creating drag.  If the latter is the case, then there are drills that can help you get your body in a miore advantageous position.  It might be that you sight looking forward, or you swim with a high head, or any of a few othe rpossibilities.  One thing that might help is to think about "pressing the buoy"  and "swimming downhill".  The former refers to consciously leaning on your chest (your lungs are figuratively the "buoy") which for most people will help to shift more of their balance point forward, thus helping to elevate their runp and their legs.    "Swimming downhill" is kind of an extension of "pressing", with the sense that you are pressing enough so that the balance point almost shifts forward, thus "tilting" you forward and downward.  It is a pretty cool feeling, and along with it goes mostly "burying" your head; so, breathing has to be to the side -- a further advantage if you breathe/sight looking forward with an elevated head.

So, between this post and the last one, I've come up with a few thoughts.  HOWEVER!  IMPORTANT!

1. Don't try to recreate yourself this close to the race.  Save drills and new approaches to aftr the race.
2. When doing swim drills, DON'T try to combine them.  I mentioned this to SAMANTHA  afew days ago, suggesting that in any one swim session, maybe only work at two drills at most -- and keep them separated from each other by plain old swimming in the middle of the session.
3. Do drills mindfully, 25m at a time.  Don't try to swim fast or keep track of time when doing drills.  Do 25m, stop, think about what you felt, and then go again, making refinements as you think you might need them.

I told SAMANTHA about a cautionary tale I have as it pwrtains to combining too many New! Swim! Concepts! at the same time.........and I will try to get to that within a day or two.  It is actually somewhat amusing and highly instructive (although quite embarassing to me!

Glub, glub!

I decided to try a premium membership, so now I'm a Silver member and have to figure out what the heck that means!  Any tips on what's different?

SAMANTHA -

ONE PERSON'S THOUGHT ONLY!!!:

I tired it about 5-6 years ago............and got hurt on about Day 11, and that was it for me -- eleven-and-out.  I suspected that might happen to me as i am not at all "bionic", and even though I was moderate in my runs (no over-long distances, no speedwork) --- I got "shelved" eraly on.  Sigh.

But!  Hundredds and hundreds of folks do that 100/100 every year, and love it, and look forward to the next year's 100/100.  So, if you are reasonably confident of your bodily and meterological heartiness, then give it a shot!  It costs nothing, there are no contracts, and no thugs will come to break your kneecaps if you bail partway through.  Perfect?

Final thought is that for many northerners, it is a great way to get them out on truly crappy/cold days.  So if you're one of those who hates running in cold, or slush, or whatever wintry mix makes you yearn for Arizona, it'll be a good way to get you out the door.  And there is also the escape valve of being able to "stockpile" runs to accommodate weather, travel, sickness, other commitments, and so on. 

Neat idea, go for it!

KATE -

Used to kinow, but have forgotten.  More training plans is one, and maybe access to the coaches' forum -- but not direct contact with a specific D3 coach?  (I think that comes with the Gold level.)

FWIW, I ahd a coach with D3 for several years, and it was the best thing I ever did in triathlon.  Mike Ricci founded D3 about '02, and he's still The Man.  I would have full faith in anything his coaches suggest through the Membership forum here (well, at the Members site) --- at least if that's still the relationship, with D3 handling those duties. 

Good decsion, i think.  (Found a plan yet?  Huh?  Huh?   

I did it!  I broke 8 m/m in a 5K.  Just barely, but I did. Haven't run as much lately as I'd like with holidays and life, and spent the beginning of the day at a tennis tournament for my daughter, but fortunately this race was at 5pm.  Ran it in 24:43, grabbed my shirt and goody bag, hopped in the car and went home to shower so we can make a 7pm dinner reservation.

That was my goal for a 5K for this year.  Whew!

Now, off to dinner.  

WAYNE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dinner well earned!  (What'd ya eat?  What'd ya eat?)

See?  that 8m/m for 5km was easy, right?  And now (hear that drumroll, baby!) ----- what's the next goal?

GANG!

Two items:

1. I know I still owe a few from a day or two ago, and will get to them soon. 
2. I will be in California from the 4th through the 17th, and will be sporadic here at best.   I will try to find the odd motel courtesy desktop....but won't book places on the basis of availabe computers!  Still, i shall do my best!

G'night!