Seriously - why the mocking of the Co-exist sticker? (Page 3)

Since I'm the Rodney King that started this riot, I have to say "can't we all just get along?"

And apparently the answer is.... no. 

I think it's funny that one person is accusing me of finding insults wherever I look, while another takes insult and accuses me of "suppressing his beliefs".

If you don't see the problem of calling your PUBLIC school party a "Christmas party", then you are part of the problem. I agree, banning an american flag t-shirt is stupid. (Although, if you are old enough, there was a time that having the flag on clothing was seen as disrespectful, since clothes are not treated with the dignity the flag requires. I am old, I remember). But the former is the imposition of a belief system on others, while the latter is not. Unless it is being done in the context of inflamed racial tensions. In which case, it is no different than banning the wearing of gang "colors" in the HS. Why are you suppressing my support of the Crips?

I think it's funny that one person is accusing me of finding insults wherever I look, while another takes insult and accuses me of "suppressing his beliefs".

If you don't see the problem of calling your PUBLIC school party a "Christmas party", then you are part of the problem. I agree, banning an american flag t-shirt is stupid. (Although, if you are old enough, there was a time that having the flag on clothing was seen as disrespectful, since clothes are not treated with the dignity the flag requires. I am old, I remember). But the former is the imposition of a belief system on others, while the latter is not. Unless it is being done in the context of inflamed racial tensions. In which case, it is no different than banning the wearing of gang "colors" in the HS. Why are you suppressing my support of the Crips?

Then I admit to being part of the problem...

First amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Having a holiday party favors no religion.  Having a Christmas party segregates those non-Christians and/or forces them to celebrate an occasion they do not believe in.  In other words it froces upon those non-Christians, Christian practices and beliefs.

Why do you hate america?

I intended to use the word "yours" in the general sense, so I wasn't accusing you in the specific sense of anything, nor taking insult. I cited examples where the expression of mainstream beliefs are suppressed to appease those of a very vocal minority, and that I do take exception to. If we're truly "co-existing" shouldn't we be respecting each other's beliefs and traditions, rather than suppressing them? If there are non-Christians in that public school where the Christmas parties take place, shouldn't we take the opportunity to recognize and learn about their holidays and traditions rather than suppressing all? Wouldn't that be closer to the definition of "co-existing"? Aren't we currently just "co-suppressing"? Let me cite another local example. We have two aging public high schools in our community with poorly ventilated gyms with bleacher seats. But up until a couple years ago, they were the only facilities available in which to conduct the graduation ceremonies, making it a rather miserable experience for all involved. Then a local megachurch stepped forward and volunteered its auditorium for that purpose for free. It's a beautiful new air-conditioned facility with comfortable padded pews and great sightlines for all to see. It has a very large permanent wooden cross behind the main stage, but for these public events it was covered nearly entirely by draping. Things went great for the graduation ceremonies for two years until, you guessed it-- an atheist lawyer raised a stink about the ceremonies taking place in a church... even though no religious symbols were visible during the ceremony and even the signage for the facility refers to it only as "The Auditorium". A lawsuit was filed, a liberal judge agreed with their position, and now the community must go back to the uncomfortable, poorly lit, poorly ventilated gyms. (An appeal is of course pending, at taxpayer expense.) Now, I don't know if that lawyer has a "Co-Exist" bumper sticker on his car, but I can argue the case on principal. If we truly want to "co-exist", shouldn't we be able respect each other's beliefs while utilizing each other's resources when offered for the good of the whole community? Isn't that more in keeping with the meaning of "co-exist"? As an aside, I just got back from driving my kids to summer day camp. On the way down a divided highway, a guy coming toward me hangs a U-turn and pulls right out in front of me, forcing me to hit the brakes hard. What was on his bumper? You guessed it.

I think what he's getting at is, would most people be okay if we replaced all Christmas references in school with Chanukah(sp?). So no more Chistmas parties but we do have Chanukah or Kwanza parties. I think they should just stick with Christmakwanzakah.

First amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Having a holiday party favors no religion.  Having a Christmas party segregates those non-Christians and/or forces them to celebrate an occasion they do not believe in.  In other words it froces upon those non-Christians, Christian practices and beliefs.

Why do you hate america?

In your example, Congress has indeed made no law.  A local school has a party to celebrate the time of year that coincides with the majority of the population's belief system.  I can also remember having days during the holidays where the Jewish kids brought in dradles and such to teach us about the way they celebrated this time of year.

That's not oppression, and it's not exclusionary.  I certainly wouldn't feel excluded if I found myself in India and was present during their celebrations, nor would I feel compelled to force them to water it down.

twomarks

First amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Having a holiday party favors no religion.  Having a Christmas party segregates those non-Christians and/or forces them to celebrate an occasion they do not believe in.  In other words it froces upon those non-Christians, Christian practices and beliefs.

Why do you hate america?

First amendment: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Having a holiday party favors no religion.  Having a Christmas party segregates those non-Christians and/or forces them to celebrate an occasion they do not believe in.  In other words it froces upon those non-Christians, Christian practices and beliefs.

Why do you hate america?

while i understand what you are getting at, eating cookies and singing about santa claus are not practicing Christian beliefs.

In your example, Congress has indeed made no law.  A local school has a party to celebrate the time of year that coincides with the majority of the population's belief system.  I can also remember having days during the holidays where the Jewish kids brought in dradles and such to teach us about the way they celebrated this time of year.

That's not oppression, and it's not exclusionary.  I certainly wouldn't feel excluded if I found myself in India and was present during their celebrations, nor would I feel compelled to force them to water it down.

twomarks

Then what is celebrating the birth of Christ?

Not specific to Christmas parties, but related to the government recognizing Christmas as an official paid holiday.  Yes Christmas is a Christian holiday/event, but it has become so secularized in the US and world that it's really not a religious holiday anymore (legally speaking)

Ganulin v. United States (1999)
On December 7, 1999, U.S. District Judge Susan Dlott ruled against Richard Ganulin, rejecting his claims that Christmas should be considered by the government a religious holiday and, hence, ineligible for official government recognition. She did accept Ganulin's premises about the basic religious nature of Christmas Day, but she reached a different conclusion, arguing that it has now become very secular in nature.

This decision follows a long line of precedents which have held that, so long as the government is able to articulate an acceptable secular purpose for its actions, it may adopt a fundamentally religious holiday as an official state holiday for all government employees. For accommodationists, this has been treated as a victory, establishing that such actions do not violate the separation of church and state and demonstrating that the government can and should accommodate religion.

LOL!!!!!  yeah, it's actually christian adaptation to attract and relate to pagans left over from the 1500's.  But yes those traditions are embraced specifically by Christians.

And admittedly us raging consumer atheists who it more appropriately fits.

In your example, Congress has indeed made no law.  A local school has a party to celebrate the time of year that coincides with the majority of the population's belief system.  I can also remember having days during the holidays where the Jewish kids brought in dradles and such to teach us about the way they celebrated this time of year.

That's not oppression, and it's not exclusionary.  I certainly wouldn't feel excluded if I found myself in India and was present during their celebrations, nor would I feel compelled to force them to water it down.

twomarks

While I understand what you are saying Santa really has nothing to do with the birth of Christ anymore.