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Move where? (Page 3)
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 2012-11-07 5:10 PM in reply to: #4487248 |
Champion  6786      Two seat rocket plane |  Subject: RE: Move where?I am a liberal who lives in a rural area. I haul my own trash to the green box. Lately it has been mostly campaign mailings. I do not like being in a swing state. |
| 2012-11-07 7:09 PM in reply to: #4488674 |
Champion 18680 Lost in the Luminiferous Aether | Subject: RE: Move where? JoshR - 2012-11-07 5:10 PM trinnas - 2012-11-07 12:50 PM kevin_trapp - 2012-11-07 2:44 PM drewb8 - 2012-11-07 1:32 PM tuwood - 2012-11-07 12:13 PM Funny, over the summer we moved to an area where we have to choose and pay for trash collection and I find it ridiculous. Instead of having one truck come around to every house we have trucks from 6+ companies running around the neighborhood at all times of day, a lot of times just stopping at one or two houses on all different days of the week. I couldn't care less about what day they pick up my trash so it just seems so inefficient it doesn't make sense to me. Different strokes I guess.That reminds me of our neighborhood. We're outside of the Omaha city limits but we live in a suburban neighborhood that's every bit attached to the city. Every year there's talk about Omaha annexing us and everyone goes postal. One of the biggest complaints is that we wouldn't be able to pick our garbage provider. There are 4 different companies that all have different trash days and different types of bins. People like to choose what day and what type of bin's they get. We have 2 trash bins, a recycle bin, and two yard waste bins. There have been days when I forgot to put the garbage out and the trash dudes come up to my house and bring the bins down to the curb. With competition there is customer service. If we are annexed then I have to use metal trashcans, I don't get to pick my trash day, and the union city trash dude wouldn't grab my trash if it were 6 inches too far off the curb. Also, we as a neighborhood choose and pay for a snow plow company. Our roads are awesome in the winter. City roads... yeah we'll get to you in a couple days. I know, I know, first world problems but it's a silly example of people like me wanting to make our own choices. All I can say is that alley dumpsters are the greatest. As soon as the kitchen trash is full, it goes to the dumpster. The City will empty it whenever, what do I care. The thought of rolling a trashcan out every Thursday morning before 6:30 or risk having to store my trash until the following week (like my previous house) has no appeal to me. But back on topic, I'm not following how any city services relate to a presidential election. It is about the amount of government in ones life and the willingness to accept that. Urban people are used to government running their lives in a myriad of different ways, rural people are not. Aren't you then relying on the mistaken assumption that one party favors small government? Not really but I am relying on the people's perception of that. |
| 2012-11-07 7:22 PM in reply to: #4488652 |
Champion 18680 Lost in the Luminiferous Aether | Subject: RE: Move where? BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-11-07 4:56 PM TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 2:03 PM BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-11-07 1:56 PM trinnas - 2012-11-07 1:46 PM drewb8 - 2012-11-07 1:39 PM trinnas - 2012-11-07 11:24 AM I pay someone to come take my trash away and the town provides police to keep me safe and keeps the street clear. The exact same way it works in rural areas. What do you do with your trash? Who keeps you safe? How far do you live from food and gas? Who plows your streets when it snows? Who clears out the debris in the streets? Who is cleaning up the mess in NY/NJ after Sandy hit? Years ago I was watching news coverage of a storm in the north east. There were a couple of large trees down across the streets. One resident, talking to the news crews was upset because they couldn't get out and the city crews had not yet been there to clear the tree out of their way. Where I used to live by 10 am those trees would have been chopped up and seasoning in somebodies wood pile. I think maybe a better argument would be that cities provide water and sanitation while rural residents have to have their own wells and septic tanks (not sure everyone having their own septic tank in the city is a great way to have people rely less on gov't though). Not sure the difference in reliance is as big as some people want to believe but I see your point better now. Actually believe it or not there are place where you get to haul your trash to the dump or burn it. And your city tells people just who can and cannot collect trash but yes it is getting to be a more privatized service. The cops are 20+ minutes away so they can come take your report but you better be able to protect yourself for those 20 minutes. The only people that protect your house against fire are a bunch of community volunteers (I used to be one of those). I agree that a big reason for the difference is that is makes sense, we cannot all have our own wells and septic tanks. We cannot all try to take our trash to the dump and a lot of other day to day things that people take for granted until they have to live without. It is often not the big things that change people but the little subtle things that they never even notice. I still am not sure what point you are trying to make. That city people are more dependent on government than rural people? I can agree with that. We pay more taxes too. I pay city wage tax and an extra 2% sales tax (supposed to drop to 1% in 2014, but I'm not holding my breath), so it's not like it's free. You really think it's much different with the cops in the city? We had someone broken into on our street, and I found out through my neighbors trying to make sure that whoever is home during the day keeps watch for strange cars in our little alley behind the homes. The point is that people who live in large cities rely on these things. It's not that you pay for them. You do. It's that you expect them to be there. Imagine a Philly or NYC without city based trash removal where people had to drive to the dump. It would be a mess. People who live in rural areas tend to do so because they do not want to be beholden to the rules and regulations required in a city. There tends to be "less government" in the rural areas. Large cities also tend to have larger populations of minorities and people in the lower income brackets. These are traditional Democratic voters. Look at FL. Most of it is red except for Tampa/Orlando/Miami/Tallahassee and Gainesville (where UF is located). The college vote usually goes liberal as well. We also have access to restaurants, the arts, and cultural activities that rural people do not. Large cities also have some of the most expensive properties, too. So it's a matter of choices and priorities. And yes, population density is proportional to the number of liberals. Maybe because we're exposed to more diversity and have less space we're conditioned to be more accommodating of others? I disagree people in urban centers are often more insular, less respecting of others, and less open than those in rural areas from my experience. Go to any urban center and just say hi to people randomly and see what happens, as a matter of fact see if you can get them to look you in the eye. These are the people that will walk past someone bleeding in the street just so they don't have to get involved. They will tell you they are concerned about poverty and violence in sub Saharan Africa but won't take a moment to help jump start their neighbors car. They will plaster their cars with bumper stickers about world peace then try to drive you off the road cause you made them angry. You are right thoug, that they do have more museums and such, which is one of the reasons I love visiting Chicago, the museum of science and industry is one of my favorites. |
| 2012-11-07 8:03 PM in reply to: #4488945 |
Pro 5755 | Subject: RE: Move where? trinnas - 2012-11-07 8:22 PM BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-11-07 4:56 PM TriRSquared - 2012-11-07 2:03 PM BrianRunsPhilly - 2012-11-07 1:56 PM trinnas - 2012-11-07 1:46 PM drewb8 - 2012-11-07 1:39 PM trinnas - 2012-11-07 11:24 AM I pay someone to come take my trash away and the town provides police to keep me safe and keeps the street clear. The exact same way it works in rural areas. What do you do with your trash? Who keeps you safe? How far do you live from food and gas? Who plows your streets when it snows? Who clears out the debris in the streets? Who is cleaning up the mess in NY/NJ after Sandy hit? Years ago I was watching news coverage of a storm in the north east. There were a couple of large trees down across the streets. One resident, talking to the news crews was upset because they couldn't get out and the city crews had not yet been there to clear the tree out of their way. Where I used to live by 10 am those trees would have been chopped up and seasoning in somebodies wood pile. I think maybe a better argument would be that cities provide water and sanitation while rural residents have to have their own wells and septic tanks (not sure everyone having their own septic tank in the city is a great way to have people rely less on gov't though). Not sure the difference in reliance is as big as some people want to believe but I see your point better now. Actually believe it or not there are place where you get to haul your trash to the dump or burn it. And your city tells people just who can and cannot collect trash but yes it is getting to be a more privatized service. The cops are 20+ minutes away so they can come take your report but you better be able to protect yourself for those 20 minutes. The only people that protect your house against fire are a bunch of community volunteers (I used to be one of those). I agree that a big reason for the difference is that is makes sense, we cannot all have our own wells and septic tanks. We cannot all try to take our trash to the dump and a lot of other day to day things that people take for granted until they have to live without. It is often not the big things that change people but the little subtle things that they never even notice. I still am not sure what point you are trying to make. That city people are more dependent on government than rural people? I can agree with that. We pay more taxes too. I pay city wage tax and an extra 2% sales tax (supposed to drop to 1% in 2014, but I'm not holding my breath), so it's not like it's free. You really think it's much different with the cops in the city? We had someone broken into on our street, and I found out through my neighbors trying to make sure that whoever is home during the day keeps watch for strange cars in our little alley behind the homes. The point is that people who live in large cities rely on these things. It's not that you pay for them. You do. It's that you expect them to be there. Imagine a Philly or NYC without city based trash removal where people had to drive to the dump. It would be a mess. People who live in rural areas tend to do so because they do not want to be beholden to the rules and regulations required in a city. There tends to be "less government" in the rural areas. Large cities also tend to have larger populations of minorities and people in the lower income brackets. These are traditional Democratic voters. Look at FL. Most of it is red except for Tampa/Orlando/Miami/Tallahassee and Gainesville (where UF is located). The college vote usually goes liberal as well. We also have access to restaurants, the arts, and cultural activities that rural people do not. Large cities also have some of the most expensive properties, too. So it's a matter of choices and priorities. And yes, population density is proportional to the number of liberals. Maybe because we're exposed to more diversity and have less space we're conditioned to be more accommodating of others? I disagree people in urban centers are often more insular, less respecting of others, and less open than those in rural areas from my experience. Go to any urban center and just say hi to people randomly and see what happens, as a matter of fact see if you can get them to look you in the eye. These are the people that will walk past someone bleeding in the street just so they don't have to get involved. They will tell you they are concerned about poverty and violence in sub Saharan Africa but won't take a moment to help jump start their neighbors car. They will plaster their cars with bumper stickers about world peace then try to drive you off the road cause you made them angry. You are right thoug, that they do have more museums and such, which is one of the reasons I love visiting Chicago, the museum of science and industry is one of my favorites. I have the opposite experience. In fact, I think rural communities are even more insular and wary of outsiders. I can't tell you how quickly people came to my aid when I was in a bike crash this past August. Making sure the bike was safe, calling and waiting for an ambulance, blocking traffic so that I didn't get run over... Or how many times we've pitched in to dig cars out of the snow. Or last month, my son was telling someone down the block how nice his pear tree looked and an hour later our doorbell rings and there is my neighbor with a big bag of fruit. The city isn't for everyone, that's for sure. I really like it. My kids think it's great. For sure we're insulated from a lot of the grittiness and our 'city' is a somewhat elite version of city life. We argue over whether we want sushi or falafel, not how do we stay warm and dry. BTW I agree with you about the bumper sticker thing. The most arrogant drivers are the Prius owners with Coexist or something stupid like that (no, I am NOT trying to revive that thread!). And don't even get me started about the hipsters |
| 2012-11-09 3:09 PM in reply to: #4487248 |
| Member 114 Los Angeles | Subject: RE: Move where? |
| 2012-11-10 5:49 AM in reply to: #4487248 |
Extreme Veteran 668 Melbourne | Subject: RE: Move where? I don't think I would want to move to the US now with what I think will happen in the next 4 years (and I'm not speaking from the outside here, I do hold a US and Aus passport). Alot of the programs Obama is bringing in, we already have, and pay for (I'm above 30% income tax, plus 10% GST on most purchases, plus various other taxes and levies, although I am on a decent wage, lower wages pay far less in income tax, with some paying none at all). We have medicare for example, however the service can be quite bad and above average income earners then also get taxed extra if they don't take out private health insurance cover. Good luck to the next government with paying for all of Obama's plans. Guess the Cook Islands looks the go, alcohol is very cheap (food is expensive though), good weather all year round and you have a tri and a duathlon on every week of the year. |
| 2012-11-10 8:17 AM in reply to: #4487248 |
| Iron Donkey 38643 , Wisconsin | Subject: RE: Move where? Why move? People need to HTFU, hunker down and build fallout shelters in their backyards.  |
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