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Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down (Page 3)
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 2012-06-26 4:04 PM in reply to: #4281636 |
Champion  15211   Southern Chicago Suburbs, IL |  Subject: RE: Parts of AZ Immigration law struck downscoobysdad - 2012-06-26 3:37 PM trinnas - 2012-06-26 3:01 PM Yep, if they exist, I've never seen them. crowny2 - 2012-06-26 3:57 PM scoobysdad - 2012-06-26 1:22 PM rayd - 2012-06-26 12:56 PM Where my concern is first is that they are here "Illegally". They intentionally broke the law. For that there needs to be some consequence. Second, they are using our services and resources basically for free. I know we have a lot of people in the country that think getting a free ride is OK. However, I am not OK with that. This is where BT needs a simple "Like" button.I could carry on but I need to get back to work. You mean like the one at the lower left hand corner of the thread? For those of us for whom FB and twitter and such is blocked at work those buttons don't show up. AH! That's different. |
| 2012-06-26 4:06 PM in reply to: #4281418 |
| Payson, AZ | Subject: RE: Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down GomesBolt - 2012-06-26 11:56 AM bzgl40 - 2012-06-26 12:51 PM wow, I just read on COJ that AZ is one step away from being lawless. Which I find pretty funny. The immigration problem in AZ is actually not as bad as folks make it out to be to justify these type of laws. But anyways, carry on. Don't forget your passport when you go for your run Misinterpret Much? I said keep AZ cities from turning to lawlessness... These days, it's easier to cross the border than in previous generations because there is more population against the border than back then on both sides and it's easier to bring stuff across and then blend into the populations of the US Border cities. As such Brownsville, El Paso, Nogales, have all seen significant increases in drug-related crime over the last 30 years. I'm certain that SB1070 had something to do with the attached statistics which show violent crime climbing year after year until 2009 when the law was introduced and 2010 when it was signed into law: http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/azcrime.htm. Crime is down year over year since the law was implemented, just as immigration into AZ is down (It's down more in AZ than it is down across the Country). Payson is pretty insulated from a lot of this since you're so far off the beaten path. But Tucson, Yuma, Douglas, Phoenix, Nogales, those areas have plenty of action to keep them busy. Ranchers have been killed for calling the cops to report smugglers using their land, people have been kidnapped for ransom (most of those were themselves illegals who were kidnapped). I'm not even sure I disagree with SCOTUS's decision on this one. I just think anyone who tries to say "it's not that bad" is either insulated from the true problems, or just wrong... I went to high school just outside of Baltimore. Drug Crime there was not as bad as "The Wire" makes it out to be. But whenever you went inside the beltway to play sports against the inner city schools, you saw that their world was definitely not as nice as yours. Just saying that "not that bad" may be your perception and not the fact.
Awesome. I have lived here for a month. Lived in Tucson a few years though before moving up here so I am not so removed from the issue as you think I am. And in Tucson I was more concerned about the US citizens all hopped up on meth then I was about any illegal immigrants. Oh, and do you have sources for all these folks being killed for calling cops? I don't just mean ranchers being killed. I man actual proof that is why they were killed. Edited by bzgl40 2012-06-26 4:08 PM |
| 2012-06-26 4:47 PM in reply to: #4278685 |
| Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida | Subject: RE: Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down |
| 2012-06-26 7:01 PM in reply to: #4281208 |
| 90 miles south of Titletown, USA | Subject: RE: Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down Cuetoy - 2012-06-26 12:33 PM bzgl40 - 2012-06-26 1:27 PM TriRSquared - 2012-06-26 10:14 AM bzgl40 - 2012-06-26 12:51 PM wow, I just read on COJ that AZ is one step away from being lawless. Which I find pretty funny. The immigration problem in AZ is actually not as bad as folks make it out to be to justify these type of laws. But anyways, carry on. Don't forget your passport when you go for your run You state government seems to disagree. yeah, but have you seen our state government? Come on now, COJ is full of complains about politicians lying. You feel AZ government is above that? The guys that have to deal with the problem on a day to day basis don't agree with the government. Even though we have a few whacked folks in those positions too I know which one I am going to believe. Don't get me wrong, we still have an illegal immigration issue. It's just actually not no where near as bad as portrayed on the news. It is greatly exaggerated for public consumption that is for certain. So it is the idea that illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from americans. Obviously, if you don't think illegals are stealing jobs from Americans, you have not set foot anywhere near a construction jobsite, lately. And, that's just one example...albeit, a HUGE part of this craptacular economy. I could work for quite a bit less money if I didn't have to pay taxes, too. I see it every day here in WI. And, if I have my geography correct, that's, at least, like 50-60 miles north of any of the border states. |
| 2012-06-26 7:18 PM in reply to: #4281920 |
Elite 4547   | Subject: RE: Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down bossfan - 2012-06-26 8:01 PM Cuetoy - 2012-06-26 12:33 PM Obviously, if you don't think illegals are stealing jobs from Americans, you have not set foot anywhere near a construction jobsite, lately. And, that's just one example...albeit, a HUGE part of this craptacular economy. I could work for quite a bit less money if I didn't have to pay taxes, too. I see it every day here in WI. And, if I have my geography correct, that's, at least, like 50-60 miles north of any of the border states.bzgl40 - 2012-06-26 1:27 PM TriRSquared - 2012-06-26 10:14 AM bzgl40 - 2012-06-26 12:51 PM wow, I just read on COJ that AZ is one step away from being lawless. Which I find pretty funny. The immigration problem in AZ is actually not as bad as folks make it out to be to justify these type of laws. But anyways, carry on. Don't forget your passport when you go for your run You state government seems to disagree. yeah, but have you seen our state government? Come on now, COJ is full of complains about politicians lying. You feel AZ government is above that? The guys that have to deal with the problem on a day to day basis don't agree with the government. Even though we have a few whacked folks in those positions too I know which one I am going to believe. Don't get me wrong, we still have an illegal immigration issue. It's just actually not no where near as bad as portrayed on the news. It is greatly exaggerated for public consumption that is for certain. So it is the idea that illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from americans. somebody's gotta be hiring these folks right? is it really "stealing" when someone is hiring and then paying these folks for a job performed? btw, there are probably several reasons companies are hiring illegal immigrants and it isn't just the fact they're cheaper labor. could it not be argued this is a great example of free market capitalism at work? |
| 2012-06-26 8:43 PM in reply to: #4281933 |
| 90 miles south of Titletown, USA | Subject: RE: Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down ChineseDemocracy - 2012-06-26 7:18 PM bossfan - 2012-06-26 8:01 PM Cuetoy - 2012-06-26 12:33 PM Obviously, if you don't think illegals are stealing jobs from Americans, you have not set foot anywhere near a construction jobsite, lately. And, that's just one example...albeit, a HUGE part of this craptacular economy. I could work for quite a bit less money if I didn't have to pay taxes, too. I see it every day here in WI. And, if I have my geography correct, that's, at least, like 50-60 miles north of any of the border states.bzgl40 - 2012-06-26 1:27 PM TriRSquared - 2012-06-26 10:14 AM bzgl40 - 2012-06-26 12:51 PM wow, I just read on COJ that AZ is one step away from being lawless. Which I find pretty funny. The immigration problem in AZ is actually not as bad as folks make it out to be to justify these type of laws. But anyways, carry on. Don't forget your passport when you go for your run You state government seems to disagree. yeah, but have you seen our state government? Come on now, COJ is full of complains about politicians lying. You feel AZ government is above that? The guys that have to deal with the problem on a day to day basis don't agree with the government. Even though we have a few whacked folks in those positions too I know which one I am going to believe. Don't get me wrong, we still have an illegal immigration issue. It's just actually not no where near as bad as portrayed on the news. It is greatly exaggerated for public consumption that is for certain. So it is the idea that illegal immigrants are stealing jobs from americans. somebody's gotta be hiring these folks right? is it really "stealing" when someone is hiring and then paying these folks for a job performed? btw, there are probably several reasons companies are hiring illegal immigrants and it isn't just the fact they're cheaper labor. could it not be argued this is a great example of free market capitalism at work? Oh, they're being "hired", yes. Why do you think they are being "hired?" Is it "stealing" when they are not paying taxes? I'm curious to know the other reasons, besides being able to work for less when not paying taxes, why it is, in your opinion, employers would hire them??? Honestly...not trying to be jerk. I have zero problem with those who are here, legally, and doing good work and contributing to our society. However, if you saw, every day, what I saw (and, no, I have no idea what you do for a living, so I could be wrong in my assumption) in construction (jobs that MANY Americans are MORE than willing to do), I would be interested to hear your perspective. Bottom line...the argument that illegals do the jobs that Americans aren't willing to do is a nice tag line. But, in truth, I feel like that is an "easy out" for those that don't want to...get their hands dirty, for lack of a better phrase...and don't see the country from outside their nice, quaint, little bubble. |
| 2012-06-26 9:34 PM in reply to: #4281933 |
Champion 7347 SRQ, FL | Subject: RE: Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down ChineseDemocracy - 2012-06-26 8:18 PM somebody's gotta be hiring these folks right? is it really "stealing" when someone is hiring and then paying these folks for a job performed? btw, there are probably several reasons companies are hiring illegal immigrants and it isn't just the fact they're cheaper labor. could it not be argued this is a great example of free market capitalism at work? When it's below min wage? When they don't demand the rights deserved to workers in this country (breaks, overtime etc..)? Yes, that's "stealing". |
| 2012-06-26 9:43 PM in reply to: #4282018 |
Elite 4547 | Subject: RE: Parts of AZ Immigration law struck down bossfan - 2012-06-26 9:43 PM ChineseDemocracy - 2012-06-26 7:18 PM Obviously, if you don't think illegals are stealing jobs from Americans, you have not set foot anywhere near a construction jobsite, lately. And, that's just one example...albeit, a HUGE part of this craptacular economy. I could work for quite a bit less money if I didn't have to pay taxes, too. I see it every day here in WI. And, if I have my geography correct, that's, at least, like 50-60 miles north of any of the border states.somebody's gotta be hiring these folks right? is it really "stealing" when someone is hiring and then paying these folks for a job performed? btw, there are probably several reasons companies are hiring illegal immigrants and it isn't just the fact they're cheaper labor. could it not be argued this is a great example of free market capitalism at work? Honestly, I've spoken to employers who hire foreign-born workers...they have cited stronger work ethic in general. Here in Delaware we've got a lot of chicken plants. If you want an easy job, don't go work in a chicken plant. Elsewhere, you've got migrant farm labor...you honestly think there is a huge segment of the American-born population that's willing to travel across the country farm to farm and pick veggies or fruits from sun-up to sun-down? It seems 2 of the solutions at distant ends of the spectrum are "round 'em up and send 'em back!" and "complete amnesty and offering of citizenship." Neither seems to be the best approach for our country. Man, I've got nothing on this one. There is no right answer...hopefully the 2 distant sides can meet in the middle. Get rid of the illegal immigrants who are felons...secure the border...and grant citizenship to those that are already here...just put conditions on their citizenship. That way, they pay taxes, they serve our country in the military, etc. That way everyone wins...I think? Well, at least that's how I see it from my bubble. Edited by ChineseDemocracy 2012-06-26 9:44 PM |
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