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 2013-02-20 11:05 AM in reply to: #4629997 |
 Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as...tealeaf - 2013-02-20 11:56 AM powerman - 2013-02-20 11:53 AM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 9:43 AM DanielG - 2013-02-19 7:24 PM spudone - 2013-02-19 7:10 PM Unfortunately for your point of view, all the pro-rights people see is another step towards a ban of some sort. There are also a lot of people out there like myself who see avenues for sensible regulation w/o a ban. Which doesn't lend itself to productive discourse. Which also does not lead to actual effective legislation to keep the wrong people from doing the wrong thing, and the good people not getting hammered for it. Do you comprehend the number of people with mental illness in this country? The number of people that have been helped significantly with the new class of anti-depressants.... now... tell them all it does not matter and that they need to "register" themselves as dangerous... that if deemed dangerous they will have their rights suspended... And because the last four mass murders involved SSIs that killed See how that goes over with the ACLU. See how well that is received by the APA. See how well that sits with people that have friends and family with mental illness. You know what, you're totally right. I'd much rather pi$$ off the NRA than the ACLU, the APA, and the family and friends of people that have mental illness.
See if you really mean that, here are some rather nice people who happen to be NRA members: http://jillnicholson.com/armed.htm Grappling with a loaded issue Pink Pistols gun club motto: ‘Armed Gays don’t get bashed’ (...) During her weekly shoots with the Northern Virginia chapter at the National Rifle Association’s range in Fairfax, Va., Reed, is a stand-out in her Pink Pistols T-shirt. The shirt is not subtle: A silhouette of a shooter sits inside a large pink triangle, while the logo warns, "Pick on someone your own caliber." Another motto greets visitors to the www.pinkpistols.org Web site: "Armed Gays Don’t Get Bashed." You might try going and shooting with them. Some nice people there and they shoot just about every week at the NRA range. |
| 2013-02-20 11:05 AM in reply to: #4629990 |
Champion  11989      Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... powerman - 2013-02-20 11:53 AM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 9:43 AM DanielG - 2013-02-19 7:24 PM spudone - 2013-02-19 7:10 PM Unfortunately for your point of view, all the pro-rights people see is another step towards a ban of some sort. There are also a lot of people out there like myself who see avenues for sensible regulation w/o a ban. Which doesn't lend itself to productive discourse. Which also does not lead to actual effective legislation to keep the wrong people from doing the wrong thing, and the good people not getting hammered for it. Do you comprehend the number of people with mental illness in this country? The number of people that have been helped significantly with the new class of anti-depressants.... now... tell them all it does not matter and that they need to "register" themselves as dangerous... that if deemed dangerous they will have their rights suspended... And because the last four mass murders involved SSIs that killed See how that goes over with the ACLU. See how well that is received by the APA. See how well that sits with people that have friends and family with mental illness. Cherry pick much? I was simply pointing out that the knee jerk reaction that Daniel alluded to is not helpful in attempting to discuss "avenues for sensible regulation." Neither I nor the bit I quoted said anything about mental illness. |
| 2013-02-20 11:06 AM in reply to: #4630008 |
| Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 12:05 PM powerman - 2013-02-20 11:53 AM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 9:43 AM DanielG - 2013-02-19 7:24 PM spudone - 2013-02-19 7:10 PM Unfortunately for your point of view, all the pro-rights people see is another step towards a ban of some sort. There are also a lot of people out there like myself who see avenues for sensible regulation w/o a ban. Which doesn't lend itself to productive discourse. Which also does not lead to actual effective legislation to keep the wrong people from doing the wrong thing, and the good people not getting hammered for it. Do you comprehend the number of people with mental illness in this country? The number of people that have been helped significantly with the new class of anti-depressants.... now... tell them all it does not matter and that they need to "register" themselves as dangerous... that if deemed dangerous they will have their rights suspended... And because the last four mass murders involved SSIs that killed See how that goes over with the ACLU. See how well that is received by the APA. See how well that sits with people that have friends and family with mental illness. Cherry pick much? I was simply pointing out that the knee jerk reaction that Daniel alluded to is not helpful in attempting to discuss "avenues for sensible regulation." Neither I nor the bit I quoted said anything about mental illness. There's no such thing as sensible regulation that does not lead to registration. The only, yes only, reason for registration is eventual confiscation so if you want to do something that cannot lead to registration, we can talk. |
| 2013-02-20 11:10 AM in reply to: #4630003 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... DanielG - 2013-02-20 12:00 PM Look, here's the deal. If you don't like the 2d amendment, that's fine. If you believe guns should be banned, that's fine. As of right now, the 2d amendment is an individual right to keep and bear arms, both in federal areas (DC) and the states are bound by it (McDonald) If you want to change it, fine, change it. Article V The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate. Don't just ignore it as inconvenient. Don't pretend it says something it doesn't. Don't pretend it doesn't say things it does. If you don't like it there's a method to change it. If you decide you can ignore the 2d amendment, how long until the rest of them are just suggestions? We have quite a bit of work to do to UNSCREW some laws that have been passed that are against the constitution, don't add to them.
If you are that concerned with the sanctity of the constitution do you get as emotionally involved in unscrewing all those other unconstitutional laws that have been passed? |
| 2013-02-20 11:13 AM in reply to: #4630011 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... DanielG - 2013-02-20 12:06 PM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 12:05 PM There's no such thing as sensible regulation that does not lead to registration. The only, yes only, reason for registration is eventual confiscation so if you want to do something that cannot lead to registration, we can talk. powerman - 2013-02-20 11:53 AM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 9:43 AM DanielG - 2013-02-19 7:24 PM spudone - 2013-02-19 7:10 PM Unfortunately for your point of view, all the pro-rights people see is another step towards a ban of some sort. There are also a lot of people out there like myself who see avenues for sensible regulation w/o a ban. Which doesn't lend itself to productive discourse. Which also does not lead to actual effective legislation to keep the wrong people from doing the wrong thing, and the good people not getting hammered for it. Do you comprehend the number of people with mental illness in this country? The number of people that have been helped significantly with the new class of anti-depressants.... now... tell them all it does not matter and that they need to "register" themselves as dangerous... that if deemed dangerous they will have their rights suspended... And because the last four mass murders involved SSIs that killed See how that goes over with the ACLU. See how well that is received by the APA. See how well that sits with people that have friends and family with mental illness. Cherry pick much? I was simply pointing out that the knee jerk reaction that Daniel alluded to is not helpful in attempting to discuss "avenues for sensible regulation." Neither I nor the bit I quoted said anything about mental illness. it's hard to reason against bias. |
| 2013-02-20 11:13 AM in reply to: #4630008 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 10:05 AM powerman - 2013-02-20 11:53 AM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 9:43 AM DanielG - 2013-02-19 7:24 PM spudone - 2013-02-19 7:10 PM Unfortunately for your point of view, all the pro-rights people see is another step towards a ban of some sort. There are also a lot of people out there like myself who see avenues for sensible regulation w/o a ban. Which doesn't lend itself to productive discourse. Which also does not lead to actual effective legislation to keep the wrong people from doing the wrong thing, and the good people not getting hammered for it. Do you comprehend the number of people with mental illness in this country? The number of people that have been helped significantly with the new class of anti-depressants.... now... tell them all it does not matter and that they need to "register" themselves as dangerous... that if deemed dangerous they will have their rights suspended... And because the last four mass murders involved SSIs that killed See how that goes over with the ACLU. See how well that is received by the APA. See how well that sits with people that have friends and family with mental illness. Cherry pick much? I was simply pointing out that the knee jerk reaction that Daniel alluded to is not helpful in attempting to discuss "avenues for sensible regulation." Neither I nor the bit I quoted said anything about mental illness. Because their is no such thing as sensible regulation of criminals that will stick a gun in your face and kill you. The only thing "sensible regulations" do is to continue hammering law abiding citizens and punishing them for the bad apples. That's cool if that is what you want to do, just apply the same process to everyone else. Better yet... apply the process to a Constitutional right you hold dear... what are you willing to voluntarily have restricted? |
| 2013-02-20 11:14 AM in reply to: #4630022 |
| Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 12:13 PM DanielG - 2013-02-20 12:06 PM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 12:05 PM There's no such thing as sensible regulation that does not lead to registration. The only, yes only, reason for registration is eventual confiscation so if you want to do something that cannot lead to registration, we can talk. powerman - 2013-02-20 11:53 AM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 9:43 AM DanielG - 2013-02-19 7:24 PM spudone - 2013-02-19 7:10 PM Unfortunately for your point of view, all the pro-rights people see is another step towards a ban of some sort. There are also a lot of people out there like myself who see avenues for sensible regulation w/o a ban. Which doesn't lend itself to productive discourse. Which also does not lead to actual effective legislation to keep the wrong people from doing the wrong thing, and the good people not getting hammered for it. Do you comprehend the number of people with mental illness in this country? The number of people that have been helped significantly with the new class of anti-depressants.... now... tell them all it does not matter and that they need to "register" themselves as dangerous... that if deemed dangerous they will have their rights suspended... And because the last four mass murders involved SSIs that killed See how that goes over with the ACLU. See how well that is received by the APA. See how well that sits with people that have friends and family with mental illness. Cherry pick much? I was simply pointing out that the knee jerk reaction that Daniel alluded to is not helpful in attempting to discuss "avenues for sensible regulation." Neither I nor the bit I quoted said anything about mental illness. it's hard to reason against bias. Historical fact. It would be nice if you actually researched this subject before having such a strong opinion one way or another. |
| 2013-02-20 11:15 AM in reply to: #4630007 |
Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... DanielG - 2013-02-20 12:05 PM tealeaf - 2013-02-20 11:56 AM See if you really mean that, here are some rather nice people who happen to be NRA members: http://jillnicholson.com/armed.htmpowerman - 2013-02-20 11:53 AM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 9:43 AM DanielG - 2013-02-19 7:24 PM spudone - 2013-02-19 7:10 PM Unfortunately for your point of view, all the pro-rights people see is another step towards a ban of some sort. There are also a lot of people out there like myself who see avenues for sensible regulation w/o a ban. Which doesn't lend itself to productive discourse. Which also does not lead to actual effective legislation to keep the wrong people from doing the wrong thing, and the good people not getting hammered for it. Do you comprehend the number of people with mental illness in this country? The number of people that have been helped significantly with the new class of anti-depressants.... now... tell them all it does not matter and that they need to "register" themselves as dangerous... that if deemed dangerous they will have their rights suspended... And because the last four mass murders involved SSIs that killed See how that goes over with the ACLU. See how well that is received by the APA. See how well that sits with people that have friends and family with mental illness. You know what, you're totally right. I'd much rather pi$$ off the NRA than the ACLU, the APA, and the family and friends of people that have mental illness.
Grappling with a loaded issue Pink Pistols gun club motto: ‘Armed Gays don’t get bashed’ (...) During her weekly shoots with the Northern Virginia chapter at the National Rifle Association’s range in Fairfax, Va., Reed, is a stand-out in her Pink Pistols T-shirt. The shirt is not subtle: A silhouette of a shooter sits inside a large pink triangle, while the logo warns, "Pick on someone your own caliber." Another motto greets visitors to the www.pinkpistols.org Web site: "Armed Gays Don’t Get Bashed." You might try going and shooting with them. Some nice people there and they shoot just about every week at the NRA range. I'm not lesbian but your point is well taken. I'm sure there are nice people that shoot guns. In fact, I expect that most people who shoot or own guns are nice people. I just don't agree with them on this particular issue is all. |
| 2013-02-20 11:16 AM in reply to: #4630014 |
| Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 12:10 PM
If you are that concerned with the sanctity of the constitution do you get as emotionally involved in unscrewing all those other unconstitutional laws that have been passed? I figured someone would try to alter the discussion this way, when you are losing a debate misdirection and strawman arguments can be your only hope. Yes I am. End of topic. This thread is about gun regulation. |
| 2013-02-20 11:17 AM in reply to: #4630027 |
| Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... tealeaf - 2013-02-20 12:15 PM I'm not lesbian but your point is well taken. I'm sure there are nice people that shoot guns. In fact, I expect that most people who shoot or own guns are nice people. I just don't agree with them on this particular issue is all. You obviously did not read the article I linked. |
| 2013-02-20 11:19 AM in reply to: #4630029 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... DanielG - 2013-02-20 12:16 PM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 12:10 PM I figured someone would try to alter the discussion this way, when you are losing a debate misdirection and strawman arguments can be your only hope. Yes I am. End of topic. This thread is about gun regulation.
If you are that concerned with the sanctity of the constitution do you get as emotionally involved in unscrewing all those other unconstitutional laws that have been passed? So you are now misdirecting to an attack on me for misdirecting? Nice. |
| 2013-02-20 11:20 AM in reply to: #4629997 |
Elite 6387 | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... tealeaf - 2013-02-20 9:56 AM powerman - 2013-02-20 11:53 AM mrbbrad - 2013-02-20 9:43 AM DanielG - 2013-02-19 7:24 PM spudone - 2013-02-19 7:10 PM Unfortunately for your point of view, all the pro-rights people see is another step towards a ban of some sort. There are also a lot of people out there like myself who see avenues for sensible regulation w/o a ban. Which doesn't lend itself to productive discourse. Which also does not lead to actual effective legislation to keep the wrong people from doing the wrong thing, and the good people not getting hammered for it. Do you comprehend the number of people with mental illness in this country? The number of people that have been helped significantly with the new class of anti-depressants.... now... tell them all it does not matter and that they need to "register" themselves as dangerous... that if deemed dangerous they will have their rights suspended... And because the last four mass murders involved SSIs that killed See how that goes over with the ACLU. See how well that is received by the APA. See how well that sits with people that have friends and family with mental illness. You know what, you're totally right. I'd much rather pi$$ off the NRA than the ACLU, the APA, and the family and friends of people that have mental illness.
Funny However, apply the same logic, sorry, emotion... to things you care about. Which rights are you willing to voluntarily have restricted for my (perceived) benefit? |
| 2013-02-20 11:22 AM in reply to: #4630031 |
Sneaky Slow 8694 Herndon, VA, | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... DanielG - 2013-02-20 12:17 PM tealeaf - 2013-02-20 12:15 PM You obviously did not read the article I linked. I'm not lesbian but your point is well taken. I'm sure there are nice people that shoot guns. In fact, I expect that most people who shoot or own guns are nice people. I just don't agree with them on this particular issue is all. I did read it. And I know of what you're speaking. I don't go through life living in fear like some with my background. I refuse to live that way. Anyway, I figured most people reading this thread would just see the article title and make assumptions about me, hence the first part of my comment. |
| 2013-02-20 11:23 AM in reply to: #4626787 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... Authorities say a 90-year-old woman is dead after being caught in the crossfire during a standoff at a Bucks County apartment complex. Police say officers responded to a domestic disturbance at the Jefferson on the Creek complex in Warminster shortly after 7 p.m. Tuesday. They say a man inside an apartment fired multiple shots at police and barricaded himself inside. |
| 2013-02-20 11:25 AM in reply to: #4630042 |
| Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... tealeaf - 2013-02-20 12:22 PM DanielG - 2013-02-20 12:17 PM tealeaf - 2013-02-20 12:15 PM You obviously did not read the article I linked. I'm not lesbian but your point is well taken. I'm sure there are nice people that shoot guns. In fact, I expect that most people who shoot or own guns are nice people. I just don't agree with them on this particular issue is all. I did read it. And I know of what you're speaking. I don't go through life living in fear like some with my background. I refuse to live that way. Anyway, I figured most people reading this thread would just see the article title and make assumptions about me, hence the first part of my comment. Who gives a damn who you spend your time with? Not me. Enjoy whoever makes you happy. You do have strong feelings about other civic topics so I was suggesting a discussion with people who might not have your defenses up so high before you ever meet them. Ya might even learn something about not being afraid and other takes on that topic. Or not. Enjoy. |
| 2013-02-20 11:26 AM in reply to: #4626787 |
Champion 11989 Philly 'burbs | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... An 18-year-old Chicago woman was killed the same day her sister had sat on the stage behind President Barack Obama, listening to him push for gun control legislation. Janay Mcfarlane was shot once in the head around 11:30 p.m. Friday in North Chicago, Lake County Coroner Thomas Rudd told the Chicago Sun-Times (). |
| 2013-02-20 11:30 AM in reply to: #4626787 |
| Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... and so much for reasoned discussion. http://gunssavelives.net/ What the hell, more pages: http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/ http://www.pulpless.com/gunclock/kleck2.html http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-12-27/how-often-do-we-use... http://www.cato.org/guns-and-self-defense Shame people cannot keep an actual conversation about topics like this. Have a nice day. Edited by DanielG 2013-02-20 11:34 AM |
| 2013-02-20 12:36 PM in reply to: #4626787 |
| Master 5557 , California | Subject: RE: If guns were as regulated as... re to Brock: Laws get passed and challenged all the time. For every one you cited in your post, I could probably name just as many trying to ban sales of violent video games. Courts are the right place to settle such disagreements. Efficient no, but that's how the system works and is by design. I'll accept a decision even if I don't agree with it. I consider the anti-video game legislation wrong, but not a slippery slope towards the removal of the 1st amendment. Let the system do its job. |
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