For those with a CCW... (Page 3)

We have gone off-topic a bit, but it's an interesting subject. Like I said, I don't dispute someone's right or wish to carry a gun, although I don't do it myself. It was the specific wording "victims waiting to happen" that just rubbed me the wrong way. There's an implication there that people who don't carry guns are somewhat responsible if someone attacks them and manages to hurt them. This guy may not have meant that, but the statement just made me think of that attitude that some have. I still think it's wrong.

The helmet and fire extinguisher analogies are only kind of applicable, since you can't really use them to kill someone (any more easily than some other random object). They are by-and-large defensive, while a gun can be both defensive and offensive.

You can be sarcastic all you want but some folks like to be prepared. The counter to labeling one person as "paranoid" is to label the other "naive."  It's all about a degree of prepardeness.  Were your four good BT friends involved in life threatening bike crashes while out on a low speed family ride?  Probably not. Still, if they were and they had on a helmet, good for them. They were prepared for the worst even though there was a low likelihood that they were in danger. 

1. I definitely agree with you that his comments could have been worded to be much less abbrasive. In fact, I would not involk the perception that you will definitely be victimized.  I also am respectful of those who choose not to carry or even own a firearm.  I personally don't worry about that because it's none of my business.  We are responsible for our own safety.

2.  I find any defensive and preparedness tool to be the same as a firearm because that is a defined purpose of the tool.  We are speaking about it in terms of defense and personal protection.  Anything can be used as a weapon but that only distracts from the debate. We are not talking about starting a calvary of cyclists with firearms here.  LOL  ...but you got me thinking, it would be a funny picture.  ;-)

 

i remember a post a few weeks ago about a group ride where someone in a vehicle ended up pulling over got out looking to whip some azz.  don't remember all the details that led up to it, but luckily there were enough riders that ended up catching up that the driver ended up getting back in the vehicle and leaving.  i would imagine that gun would have come in pretty handy if the cyclist didn't have a bunch of friends behind them. 

sure, it's probably pretty rare that you would actually "Need" a gun while riding, but a lot of people out there would rather have one and not need it, than need it and not have it.  it's kind of like having a gun in the house.  what are the odds of getting broken into and needing it?  pretty darn slim.  but you can bet your back side that you'll be glad you have it should you ever be put in the position to need it.

i didn't read every post here, but i don't recall anyone mention having a knife.  i usually have a folding and lockable knife in my seat bag.

Except that if the driver who wanted to fight was the one carrying the gun...maybe you'd have a situation like another post a few weeks ago, where some guy shot a cyclist in the head after an argument.

While this thread may split the field into folks that think those that carry guns are paranoid and those that would not are naive, I personally have had many questions answered.

I think it is prudent to take reasonable precautions in addressing significant safety risks. I once heard the quote "take all necessary risks, take no unecessary risks". Where I live there is a real and significant threat of getting hit by a car or crashing into a deer. Accordingly, I wear a helmet. There is some risk of getting knocked off the road by inattentive or impatient drivers. There is almost no risk of ending up in a toe-to-toe argument with a driver that would turn into a fight for life.

For my situation, it seems a reasonable amount of protection against the significant threat is to wear a helmet and ride with other people. I don't think the potential negative consequences of carrying a gun are worth the very very small risk of actually needing to use a gun. What are the negative conseqeuces of carrying a gun? Well these would be personal, but for me: weight, comfort, safety. My overall safety would probably benefit more from wearing one of those sumu dude suits or some kind of body armor to protect against crashes than to carry a gun.

Am I naive? Nah - I don't think so. OTOH, if i were cranking out 50 miles through downtown atlanta or LA, maybe I would be more concerned with a physical altercation with an angry driver. In fact, I would not automatically classify someone as "paranoid" if they carry a defensive weapon for rides through such locations. Personally, I'm more likely to get into an argument with a bear.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.  Make a logical choice that suits your needs. 

I think being likely to get in an argument with a bear is a perfect reason to carry some sort of protection. 

I think this covers it all and actually hopefully makes sense for both sides. The risk part is key. The reason some people carry is their idea of what is worth the risk is higher than others. I know people who carry everyday everywhere they can and get annoyed when they can't carry like going to another state or court (not for being a criminal just an example of a place you can't carry). My mom gave me lip when I was up in NJ 2 weeks ago about how i better not ever own a gun.. little does she know I do .. So I see both sides and I am in the middle

I know I am a person who thinks too highly of others and expects others to be as good as me, I've been robbed twice this year (not at gun point just stuff stolen) and I still sometimes think ah I don't need to lock my car doors here why would someone try and get into my car blah blah blah..

When I lived in NJ I didn't think twice about guns, didn't care, didn't want one, saw now need for them. Plus I can be cheap and 20 plus cents a shot is just silly to me. Yet once I moved to GA and my roommate got a gun and I went to the range a few times I thought it was fun and got one. I'll be getting my ccw (tried to last week but don't take out of county checks let alone out of state) just to have it. It can help if I am stopped on the way to or from the range or the fact that its not even legal for me to take it from my car into my gfs house since I have to cross a public sidewalk. But I have no real plans to actually open or concealed carry it. Sure i'll do it a few times just because I can..

Would I carry on a road ride? No I can't think of a single time I would possible need it on a road ride. Would I consider it on a mtb ride or a hike, yes and I did the other day when I saw a huge print that I couldn't identify out trail running, but once I have my ccw I still don't see me ever doing it when it comes down to it.

I'm left enough to be called a dirty hippy if I didn't shower so much, but I own a gun since it can be fun to go to the range, I laugh when I think about carrying it for protection though as I see no real situation it could be useful for me. I have friend who say if the government tired to take their guns they would fight back if they tried to take mine I'd just be pissed I lost the investment.

Remember though for people who are saying those who carry are nuts or more likely to go nuts. IT is actually quite the opposite. The CCW is like a gold plated PBA card since htey know people who legally can carry are less likely to commit real crimes. The People robbing stores, shooting people are not legally carrying and usually the guns are not even legally theirs. Those with CCWs and legally owned guns are very law abiding citizens and probably the LAST person you would have a confrontation with. A friend told me a statistic once but Florida has only revoked like 5 out of the thousands of CCWs they have issued over the years for something committing a crime after being given the permit. If you think about it that means people who can legally carry in florida are least likely to commit a crime out of just about anyone.

I carry a lockblade knife for emergency responders it has a blunt tip half serrated blade, the great feature about it has a small carbon point for taking out windshields. I figure if they want to engage me, I want them that close, i've read that handguns can be pretty useless in these situations because the time it takes to unholster, aim, and shoot.

Now I'm not a gun freak my only pistol is pretty useless to me because I have to take the hidden key out of the nightstand to the closet unlock it load it with the 5+ year old ammo then find the intruder. All in the name of safety, kids mostly, how many times have kids gotten ahold of their fathers pistol and hurt someone.

I like Navytrichief's idea about the spray anybody that has been through basic training know how effective CS gas can be. As we have seen lately Kentucky is not the safest place to ride, I think being aware whats going on around you at all times will go along way to keep you safe then any gun, knife, or spray.

This should solve all the problems with taking too long to draw

Hopefully nobody got too bent out of shape from this topic...I didn't intend on making such a big deal.

Regardless, my eyes are more open to carrying less-lethal methods like pepper spray now; it sounds much more practical and I could definitely avoid a potentially deadly encounter with an angry driver. I've always heard in the past that pepper sprays are somewhat effective at best. Maybe I need to do some more research...

What it boils down to is this:
I work out by myself 99.7% of the time, and Iwork second shift. I try to get workouts in during daylight, but sometimes it's better for me to run/ride at night when i get home (after midnight). I take all proper precautions: i wear bright, reflective colors, I have an LED headlight and blinking taillight. Over the years, I've had hundreds of people yell at me, probably between 10-20 cars aggressively swerve at me, and a handful of random objects thrown at me while running. Biking hasn't been near as bad, but then again I've only been riding for a year coming up this September.

http://www.wyff4.com/news/20187786/detail.html


How's this for an aggressive driver... He might have thought twice had the rider returned fire.

That was the story I was referring to. Unfortunately, your logic is slightly flawed. How could the firefighter have 'thought twice' if he was the one to draw a gun and shoot someone in the first place? In my naiive little world, if there were NO handguns at the scene, then NO ONE would've been shot in the first place! Crazy though, no?

I don't carry a real handgun with me on my rides, but I do carry a high velocity co2 pellet pistol, small, compact and won't kill anyone attacking me, but would hurt like hell and give me a chance to haul butt out of there.
Sounds stupid and silly but I feel safer with it.

I don't carry a gun (I do know some who do) but I have seen on more than 1 occasion that the bolded statement isn't always true.

Wow...a lot of gun hate here.

No flaw in my logic... It was a feeble attempt at sarcasm.  I do support gun ownership, but there is really no reason to pack a pistol on a bike ride.  Reactionary times, being able to shoot under stress, etc.  The idiot shootin' at the cyclist would have been deserving of a little peace through superior fire power from the cyclist, but that does not mean that I am advocating toting a pistol on a ride.

My little sis has one of these taped to her top tub - for violent hobos - no joke we have been chased on our rides through Georgetown in S. Seattle.


Do not mess w/ a girl w/ a hammer.

Wow. Stay Classy Georgetown!

Georgetown landmark ^^^^ Nothing if not classy.

Edited by The Nat 2009-08-06 3:32 PM

Ah, so you believe we should have zero firearms in the world?