Gnu's Group - CLOSED (Page 3)

I have the same problem, but it is with the run. Sometimes I have a hard time getting up and running in the morning. I really enjoy swimming and biking so it takes a lot of willpower for me to get up and go running.

FYI... I think I am funny. If I come accross as an at times, it is not intentional. Just thought you all should know :-)

Thanks to Nichole!!! I feel like I need to be disciplined. I get off at midnight and I am going to go swim. One tiny little perk to being a Police Officer is having the key to all city facilities. Anyway I am off in a little bit and looking forward to my swim.

SO I have not posted anything of interest lately and know that I owe you Gnu's run tips and Gnu's transition tips... the fourth discipline. Because I run like a pregnant elephant, I need to be good at transition. I have finished second in my age group by 1 second before, that sucks. Once I get through this whole 70.3 thing on Sunday I will have a little more time to write those 2 items up.

We are getting some participation and some good questions from many people, but there are still alot of people not getting involved. Believe me, there are no dumb questions. I guarantee if you ask something ,at least 3-5-all of the others will be like, yeah, great question. I also do not claim to know all the answers. This is a sport where you are always learning. If you discover something during training or a race, share it. I have learned at least one thing in every race I have done. When you stump me, I will tell you. I often times site sources. I read, ALOT. I love knowledge, so much of what I know I have learned from others and much I have learned on my own. This is such an individual sport that things that work for me may not work for you.

Happy training!

Gnu

Well, I remember why swimming is not my favorite....I SUCK at it. I am turning all but one day each week into swim days for awhile to improve. Hopefully practice=less sucky.

I have found that practice does = less sucky. However, like going to a driving range in golf, practicing bad form = getting good at being sucky (you will flail faster). I reccomend befriending somebody at the pool (look for a USAT sticker on their car) and ask them to evaluate your stroke. I have gotten great advice from complete strangers. If you cannot find somebody, watch people. Also, go to www.triswimcoach.com you will find some really good reading. He has some stuff for sale, but I got alot out of reading the free stuff and signing up for the newsletter, where he sends out workouts.

Since you sorta live near Tampa... If you ever want to be crazy and have time to kill, my coach, Bill Floyd, Does open water swims at the Courtney Cambell Causeway every wednesday at 5:30. That will make you very strong, very fast. I do it consistently at the beginning of the season and then about twice a month during the season. He only charges $8 and it includes some coaching. www.trifloyd.com

Once you do this long enough, the swim will become your friend. Being even OK at the part most are bad at is a HUGE benefit.

Happy swimming.

PS - You need to update your logs. Writing it down is very motivating.

Gnu

Edited by gremlin327 2008-05-15 5:38 PM

Just wanted to second Gary on the talking to other swimmers things.  Hey if you have to train THAT close to other people, might as well take advantage of their knowledge!  And I know that I am always happy to help people in the pool; they can be your eyes and watch your stroke and let you know what parts your stroke falls apart on (if any).  The biomechanics if swimming is fascinating too (IMO), so read up on it!  I would recommend worrying less about speed (which, from my observation, tends to just make people thrash around and become LESS efficient) and more about strengthening your stroke.  Or at least dedicate a portion of each workout to focusing on form.  Just my 2 cents.

Well Said. Below is an article I lifted from www.Performancemultisports.com . I was looking for, but could not find an article that I read that basically said that we (humans) are like 98% efficient running and biking. The difference between an elite runner and Joe Blow runner is generally not form, but strength, conditioning, genetics (can never get around that one), etc... However, the average new swimmer is only like 3% efficient while an olympic swimmer is like 8-10% efficient (my % are not totally correct, but you get the point). Reason is this whole water is heavier than air thing. Notice, even an olympic swimmer is reletivelly inefficient, but that the gap between average and great is alot. That is why Andy Potts swims the 1.2 miles in a 70.3 race in the low 20 min range (something like 22 and change) and a schmoe like me, who trains at 1:45/100 is hoping to come out of the water in around 35 - 40 minutes on Sunday, which will still be considered OK for an age grouper.

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Triathlon Swimming - Performance MultiSports


For many of us, swimming is the most difficult segment of a triathlon -- psychologically, if not physically. The water is often cold, always deep, and depending upon the location, the thoughts of the animals beneath the surface can be frightening! Here in Florida, our lakes are visited by alligators, while our ocean beaches are just about as popular for sharks as for sunbathers. Fortunately, there have never been reports of meetings between triathletes and these creatures.
Swimming is the biggest challenge for a lot of people that want to do a triathlon. Without years of swim lessons, or being on swim teams as a kid, it almost seems like learning to swim for a triathlon is impossible. Of course, that is just not correct. No matter what your age, you can learn to be a more efficient and successful swimmer.

One good thing about swimming is that it is mostly technique. Once you learn the correct way to swim, it almost gets easy! Well, not quite, but almost. And as you continue to practice, you will continue to improve. Unfortunately, many people try to work on their swim fitness before they improve their swim form. Keep in mind that swimming is mostly technique. You can improve your swimming efficiency much quicker by using good swimming form with concentration, body awareness, and knowledge, than by using muscles, strength, and lung power.

Velocity in the water is a function of stroke length and stroke rate. Stroke length is positioning your body in the water so it goes as far as possible with each stroke. Stroke rate is how quickly you move your arms and take each stroke. Water is 1,000 times denser than air! Therefore, the best way to make dramatic improvements in your swimming is by focusing on stroke length. In order to improve your stroke length you need to cut the resistance of your body through the water. Swimming efficiently means streamlining your body as much as possible. The three key ways to do this are:

1. Balance your body better in the water. Pressing your buoy will help you be more relaxed in the water.
2. Make your body longer. Front quadrant swimming makes you swim taller and faster.
3. Swim on your side, not on your belly. Rolling side to side on every stroke uses less energy.
These three principles of proper swimming may be new to you. They can be easily learned and applied using drills to reinforce the techniques involved. They should be the main focus of your swim workouts. Contact a masters swim coach in your area to learn how to get a head start on swimming efficiently.

Happy swimming,
Gnu

I know exactly what you mean on the swim. I have been under the mindset (the wrong one) that I want to get a little better before I go swim with a coach, other people etc. I have been focusing on form and just trying to swim long and smooth not worrying about speed so I can build up my distance. I am relatively good shape but swimming is like an entirely different beast. I get so winded so quickly and I know a great deal of it is my form. I have the TI video and have watched it several times. But even doing drills w/o someone to critique you is pretty much pointless. What is your take on TI is it worthwhile?

There is a tri group starting up in my area and I have recently talked to a couple coaches just haven pulled the trigger on it yet. I would love to go do some OW swims and the causeway isn't too far of a drive so I can see that in my future. I am getting more serious on doing that HIM in NOV so I know that I have to fix this. I will start doing my logs so you can keep up with my progress and for me to see it in writing.

Well just called a coach. Supposed to go swim on tue night with her.

Awesome! Love how you put plans right into action. Would love to see you on the causeway. let me know if you need additional info and let me know when you plan on going to make sure I show up (I do not go every week).

My Tri Coach (Bill Floyd) is totally into the TI (Total Immersion for everybody else's sake). Some coaches do not like it. You will find more tri coaches like it and swim coaches hate it. It is more for longer distance, endurance and open water swimming, so that makes sense that tri guys like it and swim coaches hate it. I personally have never seen the videos, but Bill teaches alot of the techniques. I am all for trying things and seeing if they work for you. At the end of the day, stick with what works for you. If your coach insists on something that is not working for you, give them feedback and have a conversation with them about it.

Nice work. Now, where did everybody else go?? There is like a 3 way conversation going on here.

We'll I guess I need to start looking for some coaching as well. I was looking at taking the TI class in October, but because of the previous posts, I will see if I can get into a class sooner.

I have waited because I am a decent swimmer and have grown up around water my whole life so I am very comfortable in the water. I too figured I would get in better shape and then work on my techique, but it seems as though the consensus is to work on form first and the fitness will come.

Is there any other good place to go (website) to find a swim coach in my area other than waiting for the next TI class?

Thanks - Jeremy

I don't know a lot about wetsuits, but I do know that you should look for a wetsuit that is triathlon-specific (and not made for scuba diving). I think it's individual preferance as to whether it's sleeveless or has sleeves, but sometimes people prefer the sleeveless kind because it's easier to move your shoulders. Also, when races suggest a wetsuit, they often have a link to a company where you can rent a wetsuit for the race. These companies can advise you on the fit.

I don't have a wetsuit yet, as I chose a race with a pool start as my first.

We rented wetsuits from wetsuitrental.com and they arrived via Fed Ex today! The suits look good (they sent us an Xterra Vortex for me and a 2XU for my husband). The rental was reasonable ($62 for 4 weeks and $8 for shipping). They say you can also buy used suits through them and they will credit your rental fee. I'll let you know how it works out.

I do have a question regarding OWS...is it safe to do an OWS with just my husband and I or do we really need more people there in case something goes wrong. I was pretty pumped about our first OWS and then I started dreaming of things in the water grabbing my legs (seaweed, fish, the Loch Ness Monster - you name it)! Am I paranoid for no reason or is my fear justified?

Edited by jhinrichs11 2008-05-16 10:39 PM

Well I don't have a lot of experience with wetsuits, but I'll give my two cents. People tend to wear a wetsuit not for warmth, but bouyance. Full sleeve suits are proven to be faster than sleeveless, but are a bit warmer. As long as the suit fits properly, you shouldn't have any issues with it being restrictive. I've got a de soto T1 suit that's a 2 piece suit. An advantage with the 2 piece is you can mix and match from sleeves to sleeveless if you want without having to buy a whole new suit. I like it a lot and it works for me, but everyone has their favorites.

jhinricks11 I think you'd be fine with swimming with a partner. I wouldn't swim alone, but that's just me. A lot of people have the same fears when they swim open water because you can't see the bottom. Thanks Spielberg! You can always just roll to your back and float for a couple seconds till you calm the nerves. There's really nothing to be scared of in the water since most things are more scared of you than you are of them.

Edited by merickson73 2008-05-17 9:50 AM

I agree with merickson73, that when doing an OWS you should always go with at least one partner, but you don't have much to be afraid of. I swim, dive and surf in the ocean quite a bit and have not had any problems so far (knock on wood). Just try to stay calm, become familiar with your surroundings and you should be great!!

Just want to say good luck to ya gremlin for tomorrow. You should be getting to bed about now but I will be looking for you tomorrow.

Obviously from my previous posts you can see that I am not the one to look to for swim advice but I have found for me that form makes a huge difference in speed. More so than swimming harder. But thanks for your post as I am eager to learn and here other insight on the matter.

Just wanted to say congrats to Gary for a great race this morning. I am pretty sure I saw him on the bike. He was flying. He crushed the ride. Over 22mph is awesome for that course. Looking forward to the race report.

OK, I am back. Have a little break here to post.

First, want to thank everybody who gave me encouragement this weekend. 70.3 is very far and very humbling. I was right where I wanted to be coming out of the water <40 and off the bike <2:30, but as you can see from the log, the wheels came off the bus on the run. I learned ALOT Sunday. Alot about myself, alot about my training and alot about the patience of my supporters.

I wanted to address the wetsuit question. Ahhhh, Lake Erie. I grew up in Buffalo and thought 70-75 degree Lake Erie water in August was warm... it isn't. Anything 78 and under is wetsuit legal per USAT rules and I must say, if you can, wear one. You do not have to run out and buy a brand new one, certainly not a $500 one. I reccomend asking around and trying to borrow one. I am guessing more people in Cleveland have them than Florida. As mentioned, get a tri specific, not diving wetsuit. A diving suit will slow you down, they are not really made to "swim" in. I have both, very different. Wetsuits do 3 things:

1. Keep you warm. I did Chicago last August, Lake Michigan, water was 68 - THANK GOODNESS for the wetsuit. Saw people with teeth chattering 200 yards into the 1500M swim, poor SOB's. Mine is sleeveless and I was fine warmth wise in that temp water, only my feet got cold. Sleeve vs. no sleeves is a preference. I wish I had gotten one with sleeves. Do not bother with a shortjohn (no sleeves, short legs) unless that is the only one you can borrow or get for free. it is better than nothing (see, good if free comment), but not worth spending money on.

2. Buoyancy. We people, when alive, sink... Wetsuits work by holding a small layer of air between your body and the suit. Air, floats... See how that works :-) It is much easier to swim ON the water than UNDER the water.

3. They are slick. not in a "I'm cool" sorta way (although they do make you look like you know what you are doing), but in a "they do not absorb water like your tri suit does" sorta way. Less soaking = less drag = faster swim.

All set, I LOVE my wetsuit. Just make sure it fits (not too tight, not too loose), make sure you practice swimming in it at least once even in a pool and make sure you use LOTS of body glide on the seams, neckline (especially behind the neck where the suit touches your skin, LOTS. LOTS, LOTS!!!!). Remember, when you swim, you look up, so put the glide wayyyyy up your neck. When in your suit, look straight up at the sky, that is where the suit will ride while swimming, that is where you will chafe (sp?).

Goos luck, happy swimming!

Swimming fast. I still struggle with this, but like running, the best way to learn to swim fast is to swim fast. try the intervals. you swim 2 min/100 when just swimming, so work a few intervals into your set. Do as many as you can until you run out of time.

This is what is called 100's on 2 min.

Look at the clock and wait until it gets to 12. Swim 100 AS FAST AS YOU CAN, look at the clock... You probably swam this in like 1:40-1:45 (becasue this was a sprint), your rest is determined by how fast you swam. Once it get back to 12, do it again. Do this 3-4-5-6 times until it takes more than 2 min/100 Rest, continue regular swimming.

Fast swimming depends on 3 things:
1. Stroke length
2. Cadence (turnover)
3. Form in water.

The longer stroke at a higher turnover with good form (cannot be plowing through the water) will make you swim faster. As noted earlier, ask people at the pool, even the lifeguards. you are a lifeguard, should be able to build rapport. They need to observe your form. All the swimming in the world will not make you faster if you are plowing water. Master swim classes are AWESOME also. Wish the only one I had access to did not start at 5:30am (have to draw the line somewhere.

Gotta go work,
Gnu

Was riding along today with a tailwind and was doing approximately 25 mph when I hit uneven pavement, lost control, and went over the handlebars. Got some pretty bad road rash down my left arm, side, hip, and knees, along with both hands. Went to the ER and had them clean it up, anyone who has ever had this done knows how bad it hurts. I'm in a lot of pain but am counting my bkessings since nothing is broken and i'll be good as new before too long. One thing that really bothered me was that no one would stop to check on me, including another biker, and it was apparent that I was injured. My clothes were torn apart and blood was dripping from my arm. Dropped the bike off at the LBS on the way home from the ER and they checked it over and the only damage was the seat and clamp. Said that it would run me about $70 to fix, extremely relieved there since the bike is only 3 weeks old. Just thought that I would share with everyone, pretty scary incident.

Well my swim coach that was supposed to meet me at the pool at 5 called me at 5:15 to cancel. So I was mad enough that I told her I didn't want to reschedule due to going way out of my way and putting a lot of stuff on hold to be able to meat her at 5. So I am in the market for anther coach. That didn't last long. Any way did a few hundred yards but felt like I was just practicing bad form. So I went and rode my bike. Surprise surprise. Anyway just venting a little but the bike ride helped me let it go.