PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL (Page 3)

Baowulf - kind of feast or famine for you on the swimming, isn't it? Just make sure you don't tear up your shoulders...

Let us know how that long run goes, and great idea to practice the nutrition and hydration that you plan on using race day. I'm always amazed at how often people come up with a totally different plan for race day than they've been doing for their training days.

I don't have any big pretty number to hit, but I think I'd be the same way about wanting to hit that 100K mark

I doubt anyone will fault you for not getting outside on the bike in 37 degree weather.  Let us know how you feel about that trainer in 3 months.  When I lived mainland side it was all I could do not to chuck the thing out the window at the end of winter.  Even Family Guy gets painful on a trainer.

I was in the pool yesterday cruising (slowly) at 18 spl when I decided to try to time myself on a little interval work (I have no idea how fast I am in a pool).  So I cranked it up a little and my form went to .  There were bubbles all over the place and my spl jumped to 24 and my time was 2:15/100 yards.  I bet my smooth 18 spl pace was just as fast...  I tried getting back to it, but lost what I had been doing and went home in shame.  Guess I'm not ready for interval work yet.

Nice work on the 2.5 mi.  

 Will

OK, here's the quick story on PLMsbr. When I was training for IM Florida, I had people tell me I was "crazy" on a regular basis. I have been playing around with learning spanish for a while, and one day the phrase "poco loco" came into my head. Seemed to fit, as it works as "a little bit crazy" and also "little" and "crazy" -> seeing as how I'm 5'6"...   So, it turned into pocolocoman, and that's somewhat of a nickname. The "sbr" is swim/bike/run. Had to come up with something, right?

I did some quick research on the stroke count issue, and found a couple threads where people debate the merits of working on stroke count. This one from the BT forum, and this one from that other forum... As usual, I fall into the pragmatic "somewhere in between" category: I think it is a valuable thing to work on and think about, but should not be the central focus of your swimming.

And I am extremely jealous about the in-home swimspa... my kingdom for an Endless Pool!   That would be really sweet... and maybe I'd finally get in those 4-5 swims a week.

JD

PS: 30 mile trainer ride is great - some folks claim that is equal to 40-50 road miles; since you never get to coast, go downhill, etc.

Absolutely. Been busy with Christmas/family stuff; but I definitely intend to look at training logs. In case you're wondering, the only reason I don't have anything posted myself comes down to laziness. I have been using a fairly simple spreadsheet as a planner and log for years, and I just haven't had the motivation to move to a different format. I'm thinking about using the BT log for this upcoming year, we'll see. Meanwhile, if you folks are interested, I'd be happy to summarize my weekly workouts in the thread. For example, this last week:

2x Masters Swims; just over 3000 yds each (Christmas prevented a third)

4x Runs; with long run of 16.5 miles; total of 35 miles

2x Bike; 1 trainer ride and one outdoor ride (later today, I hope!) of 40-50 miles

JD

Now that the holidays are over and the weather has settled down I am back to training.  Today I did a 15 mile ride (1 hour) after a 3 mile run (29 minutes).  Having been off a couple weeks I am feeling it in my legs.  I have not yet begun my swim training.  I have joined a swim school and start lessons after the first of the year.  I just hope I don't drown my first session.

Mike

Looks like most of you did some sort of activity this past week other than eating.  I took the week off.  Today starts my 20 week training program for Florida 70.3.  I was a bit bored at work last week, so I put together my SBR goals for next year.   This is based off of the BT 20 week 1/2 Ironman and BT 20 week Full Ironman training plans.  The hardest part will be the long rides in the next couple months with the crappy weather up here.  I am sure I will have a ton a questions in the upcoming weeks/months.

I am beat right now.  I had a lot of training over the last weekend, and I am sitting at my desk counting the minutes until 5.  Normally, I am here until the cleaning crew arrives, but not today. 

I counted my strokes to get an idea of where I am in comparison to the group.  Depending on how hard I pushed off the wall, and how hard I pulled, and a few other factors, I found that I was mostly anywhere from 17 to 20.  It seemed like it was pretty consistent with those numbers, but I only counted every so often. 

Mtnbkr; took a look at your training logs. Normally I'd be thinking those bike totals are awfully low, but given your background I don't think that's gonna be an issue. I'm sure you know what you need to do to have your biking ready for a half IM.

Are your runs normally same relative time and speed? I'm a big proponent of having different types of workouts to build the right combination of speed and endurance. For example:

Speed/Interval training: Run about a mile to warm up, then start doing intervals of about 1/2 mile where you go all out and really push yourself; followed by about 1/2 mile of a steady/easier pace. You want to get to the point where the chest is heaving, heart pounding, etc. This is where you start expanding your body's limits. I have a great treadmill workout for this if you are interested. Oh, total distance for this (for 1/2 IM training) might be something like 4-6 miles (including cooldown).

Pace/Tempo training: Mid-distance (4-6 miles or so) runs where you try to run a strong, hard pace; similar to running a 5 or 10K (but not quite as all-out). Goal here is to run a pace that is uncomfortable, but something you can sustain.

LSD (Long Steady Distance) training: These are your long runs where you train your body to handle the distance. My own experience, and that of other people I've worked with; is that there is a difference between "steady" and "slow". If you are new to running, or running distance; then slow is probably a good idea to get the distances in and teach your body to cope with that. At some point, though, I think you need to think in terms of "steady" vs "slow". Best way I can describe that is that you should be able to breathe comfortably, with the legs moving at a steady pace; not purposefully running really slow.

This is getting long, so I'll try to wrap it up here with an idea of pacing for the above. Let's say your best 10K time is 8:00/mile.  Pace/tempo runs would be just a little bit slower than that, something like 8:15 to 8:30/mile. Your LSD runs might be more like 9:00/mile, or even a little slower when you start getting to the upper limits of your distances. For the speed workouts, try to push that envelope and see if you can get your intervals under 7:30. Please note that these are all just general guidelines to give you an idea of how to approach your runs; so focus on the concepts more than the specifics. And keep in mind that there are lots of coaches and athletes out there that do things differently, yet seem to find success. The one constant is that they work out hard, and they work out consistently.

For the swimming, keep trying to build your frequency and distances; but make sure you do it with a logical and reasonable progression. And don't worry for now about things like rest times between laps, that will all come as you get more comfortable in the water. For me personally, I'd like to be doing at least 3x/week swimming at about 2000-2500 yards/workout to be ready for a 1/2 IM. The true swimmers would laugh at that, that's barely a warmup for them   But if you can do that, you'll do OK in your race. And we all need to be cognizant of where we are starting from, and what our goals really are.

Back on the horse! Good deal   Let us know how the swim lessons go. And if you do drown, at least your family will be rich! Seriously, though - it's so easy for us as adults to feel like idiots when we are doing something new and that we are not great at (I am right there with everybody else); we have to just focus on where we are at and getting better. I'm going thru same thing with my masters swim class, as I'm one of the slowest people there right now. I just keep doing my workouts and trying to get better, and keep in mind that a few years ago I would have been with the developmental group. How many of our friends/aquaintances would kill just to be able to get in a pool and swim 1000 yds! or run 3 miles, or bike 10... it's all relative.

Yesterday I started training. It's been a while with the ice etc but, I joined the YMCA so, things are looking up. I have a plan since I am a newby...but, any suggestions are very welcomed.

 This week I will be focusing on the elliptical and circuit training. Yesterday I logged time on the elliptical and swimming. Today, I will be focusing on the circuit training and swimming. 

Next  week I will be full time elliptical, swim, and the a strength building class.

The week after that I will start the running plan they have on this site. I have it printed out. I hope to be running the following week, swimming, strength training...and then I will add the cycling class. 

Last I will add the rowing...this is the last step in the tri here. We bike, canoe, run. We also have to carry a certain amount of weight on our backs. 

Anyone have fav foods they eat before/after they work out? A runner's diet or something? 

Oh, and how do we log stuff in...I am VERY  new to this site.

Thanks.

Hey Baowulf... hope your daughter had a great birthday! And great job on the 21 miler - I think you are ready for that marathon! With a good taper and proper pacing, you'll do well if you are able to cover 21 miles now. Just a couple of other thoughts:

I understand just getting in the pool time and covering some ground, and that's great that you're getting to do that. If you do look at intervals in the future, don't think of them as anything fancy or special. It could be as simple as stopping for 10-15 seconds after every 400 to catch your breath; so that you don't start losing form due to having to concentrate on just breathing (and turning your head/body to much to get huge gulps or air).

As far as TI, I read the book and still use some of the drills; and I think it's good stuff for understanding body position in the water. It gets the same type of reaction as the Galloway run/walk method of completing marathons... some of the purists/elitists look down their noses at it as being something that newbies do that will never allow them to be fast. Don't worry about them, do what works for you! As you progress in your swimming, you might end up with less emphasis on the TI techniques, but only because you built those into your core swimming. And yes, at some point, you have to add lots of really hard work to the technique in order to get fast. That's the part some folks miss when focusing on techniques like TI, or CHI running, etc; at some point you still have to bust your butt to get fast (if that is important to you).

Alright Shawna! The "starting" is often one of the hardest parts (other than the "staying with it" part...). Using one of the plans from the website is a smart way to go. As you train more and learn more about yourself over the few years, you can start tweaking and adjusting things; but for now the best thing is just to have a plan and try to stick to it as much as possible (but don't panic or overdo it when you miss a workout, just get back on the plan and keep going).

I like the canoe taking the place of the swim, that would be a good thing for me

For me, food before/after a workout depends on the actual type and length of what I'll be doing. For running and swimming, I try to eat fairly light beforehand, as I don't like a heavy stomach. High carb, low fat, low fiber... things like eggo waffles with peanut butter and honey, low-fiber granola bars, Ensure, etc. For biking or strength workouts, I can usually eat a little more beforehand without it bothering me; although I save the bulk of my calories for after the workout. There I still need carbs, but I am also looking for a little more protein. Favorite after-workout food are things like Clif bars, Smoothies (non-fat frozen yogurt, fruit, etc); or just a good healthy meal with a mix of carbs and protein. And if you are working out longer than an hour, don't forget about taking in calories *during* the workout. Sports drinks, gels, bloks are all good; but you can also use any high-carb, low fat and fiber food that you enjoy and can stomach.

Can any of you other folks help Shawna with the logging? Since I (shamefully) don't log my workouts here yet, I can't help her much. And what types of foods/eating do the rest of you use and/or recommend?

Well...been away for a while.  We went to Denver for Christmas to visit my family and had a great time.  Ate way too much junk and did very little training but my body was ready for a rest week.

JD I agree with the different paced runs and I use the McMillan run calculator.  It shows the different pacing for each type of training run and uses your most recent race time to calculate your training paces.  It also gives approximate race finish times based on your race distance/time. I have found it to be very accurate.  There are also articles explaining the different types of training.  Here is the link:

 http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/Running%20University/Article%201/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

My swim stroke count per length averages around 18.  I am glad to see that it appears to be somewhat in the range of everyone else.  I thought it was way too high.

Way to go Shawna!  I look forward to hearing your progress reports.  The logs are fairly easy to use.  Click on the training log icon on the top of the page and then from there it is not too hard to follow.  I try to keep mine really simple and straight forward by not filling in everything that is available like weight, sleep, etc.  I just put in my time and distance.  I can see where that other stuff would be useful but I just don't take the time to go that in-depth.  If you have any questions just post them here and we'll get them answered for you.

Good luck to all in 2009!  Here's to each of us meeting our goals and having fun while doing it!

PLMsbr - 2008-12-30 12:07 PM Boston - I can't see the chart that you posted, can others see it OK? Maybe a Firefox issue? Fire away with the questions, and I hope that everyone feels free to chime in with thoughts and opinions. If there was one sure-fire approach to training that worked for everybody - we'd all be following it and there wouldn't be much need for discussion forums

How's this:

Sort of small.  I am still trying to figure out the best way to post pics.  It doesn't seem to work when I link them from my hard drive.

I'm glad to hear people have had a nice holiday season.  That McMillan Running Calculator is an interesting gadget.  I'll keep that handy.  I love my Garmin, but I don't always have that handy when I'm traveling. 

Shawna, great to hear from you again.  I love oatmeal as a pre-workout meal.  Microwave some Quaker Oats and add some fresh or dried fruit, milk, and a little honey.  Mmmmm....  so good.

And just briefly since last year was my first attempt at endurance training.  I spent a lot of time putting together and tweaking a plan even when experienced folks just told me to go out and do it.  In the end, between fatigue and general time sucks I kind of just went out and did it.  I'm no expert, but don't be afraid to lighten the load or take a day off if needed.  Wanting to continue and preventing injuries are far more important than any single workout.

I had a nice 3 hour ride today through a tropical monsoon.  Like riding my trainer in the shower.  I'm starting a Master's swim class tonight.  How much chaos can I cause in a lane of swimmers?  We'll find out tonight.

I have a food idea that might be useful.  On Sundays I make my breakfasts for the week by dong the following:

12 eggs (only one yolk, the rest are just egg whites)

8 oz cottage cheese - I use non-fat, but use what you want

2 bananas - mash the up with a potato masher if you have one

2 1/2 - 3 cups of oats - this will determine the thickness.

Stir this up until you have it mixed, then cook it on a griddle like a pancake.  It is a great pre or post workout food, and really easy to eat.  I usually eat one in the morning before my workout, then 4 more after on the way to the office.  It may sound weird, but I think they taste good too.  I eat them cold, but you can heat them up if you want - they taste a little better warm.