Jeff's Group - CLOSED (Page 3)

Good evening and welcome, the mentor is in. Just kidding, I do that.

To quote Captain Barbosa, "they're more like guidelines, really." Yes, you can do any combo on any day, but htere are some things to keep in mind. Let me share a little of my training and why I do, or don't do, certain things:

Currently, my training is more run focused as I have a marathon in May. So, I swim and strength train on Monday, I bike and run on Tuesday, I run and strength train on Wednesday, I run on Thursday, Bike and strength train on Friday, swim and run on Saturday, and bike on Sunday. You'll notice there are no scheduled rest days. That is because I last year I learned "it is better to be over-recovered and undertrained, then to be under-recovered and overtrained."  

Based upon my upcoming race I know I need to run and that is priority #1. I need to maintain a swim and bike schedule, and these are priority #2. I also want to strength train and that's priority #3. If something comes up, and it always does, I stick with the priority order if I have to leave something out. Since swim and bike are both rated #2, I refer to any training I've done that week and omit what I've done to do what I haven't if something comes up.  Confused? Let me clarify. I bike three days a week- Tue. Fri. and Sun. but I only swim two days a week-Mon. and Sat. At this time I don't have a day where I do both on the same dayOr, since run is the priority, if I only get two bike rides on a certain week so what. Soon my Saturday runs will be double digit in length and a morning swim will rob me of stamina I may need on the run. My solution is to skip the Saturday swim and maybe do it on Sunday instead, before the bike ride. Soon my Saturday runs will approach or hit twenty miles and doing a bike ride on Sunday may rob me of some leg recovery. I then might do the swim on Sunday but not the ride, or not do anything on Sunday but rest. I may drop the Friday workouts to rest up for the long Saturday run. The point I want to make is to be flexable.

On your plan there's probably build weeks and recovery weeks, and some of the build weeks focus more on one of the events then the other, in other words there are "key workouts," like biking hills, or doing a really long swim. I would say look ahead a few days just to get an idea of what's coming up and take note of any "key" workouts. That way, if you need to adjust things, be sure to do the key workout. Mentallly you'll say, "well, I missed that run but at least I did the one hour of hill climbs on my bike," and you won't feel that your training is falling behind.

I try to do at least one brick a week since it's very important to be able to run after biking, but right now it's not a priority so I only do it like once a week. When I get nearer my tri events I will do bricks more often just to get my mind and body used to the idea that after biking comes running.

As far as your plan containing two workouts on the same day goes, you should also be flexable. If you have time for a run after your swim then go ahead. If you need to do one in the morning and one in the afternoon that works too. I could, on Mondays, swim or strength train at 5 a.m. and come back to the fitness center at 3 p.m. and do whatever I didn't do in the morning, but I just don't feel the need to knock myself out so I swim, dry off, and hit the weights. That reminds me-I try to lift and swim on the same day since swimming is so much upper body strength, or if I only do one of these two I make sure there are multiple day between the next swim or lift workout..

In closing this extremely long response I will say- listen to your body. Some days you'll have it and some days you won't and that's just the way it is. Some days your plan is to swim 40 laps and it's all you can do to swim 20. Just cut it short and get on with your life, you'll maybe feel like swimming 50 laps next time.

Happy training!

Honestly I don't know about the notices, but I know who does-marmadaddy. He is the "man" when it comes to this site. Whenever I've added to a thread and someone replies I've always gotten a notice but I don't recall doing anything to make that happen. Mike a.k.a. marmadaddy will have an answer. Send him a private message.

You are a waterdog that's for sure. I'm like two thousand miles away from you via Route 66 so my kick won't do a lot, but "GET OUT OF THE POOL!" What if you did something else first and then rewarded yourself with laps in the pool? I think maybe that's the answer for you. A little treadmill first, or some trainer riding and then SPLASH!

What do you think? I'm sure you have some endurance if you can swim so much, so just transfer it over to the other two events first and then dive in.

Please keep me posted.

Hi Jeff,

Thank you for taking the time to host a mentor program.  I really appreciated the comments you made in your bio and throughout the post - Very enthusiastic and inspirational.  This looks to be a fantastic group and I would very much like to be a part of it.  My story;

I've "considered" training for a triathlon for years.  I'd been in great physical condition at one point in my life but had allowed myself to prioritize work over fitness and eventually became horribly out of shape.  I'm from the Northwest but am now living in Shanghai for work (I noticed another poster also from this area - hello there).  Last summer, my family took off for the summer back to the Seattle area while I stayed in swelterring Shanghai to work.  At age 44 I decided right then that I would pursue this ambition (I'm not getting any younger) and subsequently found this websight.  Progress so far is that I've just finished the Michael Pate couch-to-sprint program.  I'm already in much better condition and have lost quite a lot of weight as well.  I've had only one issue along the way with some tendenitis and worn cartilidge in one knee that set me back on the running.  The knee is 100% now and I'll be starting a winter maintenance plan followed by a 12-week basic Oly program in preparation for my first planned race this summer.  I've found that balancing intensity and injury is MUCH more of a challenge than it was 20 years ago.  :-)  The mentor groups, and this one in particular, seem to be such a great forum to share best practices about training, injury prevention and more in helping each other acheive our goals.  My target race is the Chelanman Olympic Tri on July 19th assuming I can make it back to the states this summer.

Best,

Martin

Hi Martin,

The Chelanman tri looks to be a good one. Looks to be smack-dab in the middle of Washington, about a seven hour drive for me. I invite you to be a part of this group and hope you won't hesitate to contact me with your questions. 

So to be clear, your knee is good to go? I have those nagging injuries I deal with too, and somehow find a way to work around them. Age, foowy.

Jeff

 LOL... I couldn't swim 25 yards when I first started!  It was painful.  I used the Total Immersion books and DVD to help me learn how to just get better in the water.  My advice, get your technique down at least enough that you are not struggling, and then practice, practice, practice.  Just yesterday I caught myself bi-laterally breathing without even thinking about it!  Wow!  When I first started really being able to swim, I could only breath on my right side and had to breath every stroke (on my right side).  I'm still amazingly slow in the water, but things do get a lot better.. .just practice!

Okay.. not trying to step on Jeff's mentoring, he is great!  If he gives  you advice, you can trust it is good advice...

Anyway, I've noticed quite a few aren't logging any workouts!  LOG THEM!!!  Make a commitment to log them.  It really holds you accountable.  Not just that  you know other people are watching, but it makes you accountable to yourself... so, log them!!!

Hi Jeff,

I'd love to join your group too.

Though I've taken on the nickname Lara C(roft), I'm regretfully nowhere near as nubile as she is.

I have signed up for my first sprint tri on Apri 25 and the next on May 31. Other races for the year will (hopefully) include a half-marathon at the end of March and a full marathon at the end of October. Speed is my biggest issue. I can splutter, bimble and plod my way through the distances but I'd like to get there before people start packing up

I've just started swimming lessons too as I see this is going to be my weakest of the three.

 Glad to be on board!

Hi Lara and welcome,

I'm sure that other Lara can't hold a candle to you. But seriously, you've got quite a few races lined up. Nothing wrong with that. How long have you been training, and are you following a plan? So you live in the U.K.? I bet this is the most international mentor group with one in England and two in China.

For speed, I have one word for you-Intervals. To run fast, or ride fast, you have to run and ride fast. For example: If you're currently running three days a week make one of those runs a series of intervals. It works best on a track and would go somethig like this:

warm up with four laps around the track. After the warm-up do light stretching like touch toes, calf stretch, and inner thigh stretch. Shake out your legs and step on to the track for the following interval workout:

1x800 (2 laps) rest two minutes. 1x400 rest one minute. 1x200 rest thirty seconds. 1x800. This equals one interval. Eventually, depending on your fitness level, you'll do multiple sets of these per workout, but for now try the four lap warm-up, stretching, and one interval session. You would finish the session with a cool-down jog of 3 1/2 laps and your total run will be 3 miles for the day.

If you do this workout  then make sure your next run is just an easy run to keep your legs loose. Your third run of the week would be longer and more at your race pace.

To do something similar on your bike you'd want to pick a stretch of road that's mostly flat. Ride for 15-20 minutes minimum to get warmed up. Then you'd do a series of bike sprints and recoveries:

30 seconds all out followed by 2 minutes easy recovery riding. Repeat this six times for a total of 15 minutes. Follow this up with 30 minutes cool-down riding. After doing this ride your next ride of the week should be more for distance then intensity.

Try these workouts a few times each and I bet you'll see yourself running and riding faster.

Jeff

Thanks for the welcome Jeff.

I've been running off and on for a few years -  getting up to about 20 miles when training for marathons but had problems one year with my knees got orthotics, attempt two needed orthotic correction and work on the core muscles and had good ol PF. So this is third time lucky but I've lost some weight and I'll be building up a bit more gradually this year. Also, I think doing more cross training will be good for me.

In terms of the half-marathon, I'm following Hal Higdon's half marathon place for novices but was going to take the speed work for one day from the Intermediate plan. I'm only on week two. His interval plan is a bit easier than yours, which is what I need right now.  I do need to start a 'proper' tri plan at some point soon as my first tri is on April 18. That's about 13 weeks away *gulp* <- literally at the moment and I don't think I'm getting enough time on the bike either.  Should I be aiming for three rides a week?

In terms of the swim, I've been looking at this plan: http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/article-detail.asp?articleid=... I'll struggle a bit with the endurance side at first (I think) but my swim instructor said to give it a shot.

I also really need to work in some core and strength training as I'm pretty weak.

Thanks for the tip on the intervals for the bike. I live in London so it's kind of hard to find flat bits where I can keep going without stopping for cars or traffic lights but will keep hunting, or find somewhere I can go back and forward a lot!

This was my plan for the next week and a bit:

Strength = weight training 

Saturday: Strength and 4 mile run
Sunday: 2 x 8 mile rides (commuting to from gym) and swim (workout 2 - month 1, week 1)
Monday:  Pilates
Tuesday: Cycle to/ from  gym (only 3.5 miles each way so will try to do some sprints) and swimming lesson - (workout 3 m1,w1)
Wednesday: 6 x 400k run and weights
Thursday: Rest
Friday:  Swim (form workout 1, m1, w2 ) and 3.5 mile run

Saturday: Swim (endurance workout: m1, w2) and 23 (15 + 8) mile cycle
Sunday: 5 mile run and weights

I wouldn't say this will be an easy week. It will push me a bit but I'm comfortable with what needs to be done.

Intially and for many months I called my swim technique Controlled Drowning. What helped me more than anything else was watching videos of swimmers. On youtube they have many underwater clips of world class swimmers doing various strokes and drills. I would then attempt to emulate their stroke. I've also had my wife video me swimming so I can really see how much I fishtail, drop my elbow and other flaws. It was hard to watch myself flail away but it helped me focus on improving my technique. keep it up you will get more graceful.  Now I even look forward to swim days. Dirk

Dirk 

Jeff, you up for another member? Figured I should make sure the group is still open before I star boring you with the details of my life.

Wlecome to the group PG. Permission greanted to "bore."

Jeff

Hi Kirsten,

"Climb aboard, we've been expecting you."

I only know what I learned at my LBS (local bike shop,) that road shoes should be stiff as flexion over a long ride(s) can cause your feet to hurt. Also the stiffness of the shoe gives a better transfer of force to the pedals.

Anyone else?

I use my mtb shoes and peddles.  I've done a 80 mile + ride and some other long distances and they were fine for me.  I've never had a pair of rode shoes or peddles so I don't have anything to compare them to.

I've been looking at training plans and have noticed a lot of the double sessions are run + swim. As I tend to ride to the gym, my double sessions are normally bike + swim. Is there much difference between the two?

Also, would there be any advantage Jeff in doing some interval work on the bike in the gym? I'm not fit enough for the spin classes yet so wondered if this would be a good medium...

When are everyone's first triathlons/events? I'm doing a half marathon on March 29 and my first sprint tri is on April 18.

It's okay to ride and swim on the same day. Some days I ride to the pool on my way to work. One reason for a swim/run or swim/bike session is upper body vs. lower body. You can get quality training for both without taxing the same muscles. Depending on the duration of both workous it would be a good idea to fuel as you go. If you were going to swim for 1 hour and then bike for 1-1.5 hours you'd want to have something every 20-30 minutes. Liquid fuel works best in the pool because it's easier to consume poolside. After the swim you could consume a gel while you dress, etc. If you're just useing your bike to ride to and from the pool then it's not as important. The same fueling idea can be used for swim/run or bike/run. I look at the duration of what I'm about to do and fuel-or not- accordingly.

Doing intervals on a stationary bike works very well. And btw you can imitate hill workouts in the gym too. Doing both is very important for overall cycling fitness, but if I recall Lara, you didn't have hills in your area. If you're races don't feature hills as part of the course you can omit hill training but I feel you'd be selling yourself short if you did. Hills build strength and endurance and more strength/endurance means faster times or less effort for the same ride. I can supply you with a few interval workouts if you'd like.

My first races are in May, a marathon and olympic tri.

Jeff-

You up for one more participant?