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2009-04-15 9:47 PM
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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN
oshunluvah - 2009-04-15 12:47 PM

i agree with your comment about the breathing; between my natural discomfort with swimming and being concsious about my breathing i'm a total wreak.  clearly this leads to hyperventilating, etc.  but, i am confident that i can overcome these obstacles and complete both tri's that i'm looking at this season.

thanks for your supportive insight robb, it's very helpful.



It sounds quirky, but have you tried kicking under water??  I ask because this will help you gauge your lung capacity/endurance ("Okay, I can stay under water and flutter kick five times before I take a breath so I want to work towards flutter kicking eight times between breaths").  It'll also get used to being under water!  Sometimes, you'll have a wave come at you.  Rather than FIGHT the wave, let it go over you.  ALSO, practice vertical kicking in the deep end...it's treading water, basically.  

Sounds like we have a lot of folks on this board who go into "survival" mode.  SO, practice what you'd do in survival mode...treading water.  It'd be your last resort BUT you still have it in your arsenal of things to get you through the swim other than...swimming.  But, keep working on that part too!  

I've found that getting comfortable with a 500 yard straight swim is one of the roughest, but most rewarding, aspects of training.  Once you get one under your belt, do a 2 x 500.  One swum easy, the other swum easy down, hard back.  Then work towards 3 x 500.  One easy, one easy/hard, the last all out... build, build, build.  That's what training is all about!  (you can start with a shorter distance, like 200 yards and do the same thing


2009-04-15 9:50 PM
in reply to: #2086229

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN


oshunluvah - 2009-04-15 1:11 PM

 

open water swims here (Boston area) are not happening for a while.  if i buy a wetsuit i can see myself getting in to the ocean maybe mid june. 



I must have spaced out if you mentioned your location earlier, I went to Salem State College, a few miles north of Beantown.  A friend of mine lifeguarded at  Crane Beach for YEARS, I'll ask her about open water swimming groups. 
2009-04-15 9:51 PM
in reply to: #2086437

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN
jford2309 - 2009-04-15 2:03 PM

I am going to start swimming in the pool with my wetsuit next week and hopefully at he end of April, I can get in OW. Personally I prefer the warmth and I go with a full suit instead of sleeveless!  GUess I am to wimpy!  lol



Hose that sucker off REAL good.  Chlorine will eat it up (not after one swim, clearly, but it'd be a shame to pay all that $$ just to have your suit all cracked up for the race season. 
2009-04-15 9:54 PM
in reply to: #2086944

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN

2009 RACES: June - Tupper Lake  (1/2 IM)    July - Pinbush (sprint)     August - Half Vermont Journey (1/2 IM).  September - Lake George Tri (oly).  (My "A" races are the two 1/2 IM

Goals:  I am volunteering for IMLP this year, and if all goes will with my 1/2 in June I'll be signing up for that.  VERY scary and exciting! 



SO, my husband and I are racing Lake George AND I'm volunteering at IMLP!! I look forward to meeting you!  p.s. We grabbed a beer at the Adirondack pub and you're invited! 
2009-04-15 9:58 PM
in reply to: #2087752

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN
Welcome Anthony!  How about we trade.  I'll give you swimming advice in exchange for cycling advice?!  =)

I'm hoping to pick up the Tri Training Bible, too, I've heard great things about it.  Definitely looks like you have a good training plan under way.  Consistency is key here.
2009-04-15 10:02 PM
in reply to: #2087753

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Subject: RE: wetsuit?
jae.miles - 2009-04-15 10:15 PM After all this swim talk, I'm beginning to wonder if I can really do this part as easily as I thought.

The swim portion of the race I'm planning takes place in a reservoir. Their website says that the water temperature is expected to be 60-65 degrees. It will be in early August. Will I NEED a wetsuit for this?

What are your suggestions?


I swam in Keuka Lake, in NY, last year in June.  It was 62 degrees in the water THEN the heat got turned on and it was nearly 80 degrees on land by the end of the race.  Boy, that water felt good to hop into after a 3 hour race, BUT it was COOOOOLD during warm ups.  I needed a wetsuit for this race and not ONE single soul swam without one.  I saw neoprene caps in the crowd, too, but I was find with my latex.

I rented my wetsuit from Xterra online.  It was painful to fork over $70 to rent the suit for the weekend when I planned on buying one in the future.  I was nervous about getting out of my wetsuit for T1, since I only swam in the suit once before the race.  I swam with a friend who I could swim circles around in the pool, but he whooped me in the open water because he used the buoyancy to his advantage while I think I fought it.
 
 Long story short, yup, you'll REALLY want to consider a wetsuit for this race.


2009-04-15 10:03 PM
in reply to: #2087796

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Subject: RE: wetsuit?
jae.miles - 2009-04-15 10:46 PM Thanks for the suggestion...and so quick!

I'll look into renting one later this summer, as I'm hoping that it will be easier to find one to fit this backside I've got into.

BTW...are my logs visible? I just started keeping track this week, and want to make sure they are there to see!


I'll check on your log for you, I tried to see it last night with no luck. 
2009-04-15 10:05 PM
in reply to: #2072537

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN
OKAY FOLKS!! Let's get this group closed up. =) Thank you all for joining.  If you don't mind, please add each other to your "friends" list.  If you need direction on this I will be more than happy to post directions.  Try to check in on each other, I will too, and just drop a few words of encouragement.  I know it has helped my training IMMENSELY knowing there are people out there checking to see what I've been up to in training land. 
2009-04-15 10:16 PM
in reply to: #2087700

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN
WittyCityGirl - 2009-04-15 9:42 PM

Hi Stan,

Thanks for joining us.  We're a pretty active group at the moment, so I'm sure you'll pick up some good advice for your training and races. 

First off, I think it is awesome that you get to train in Central Park! Holy cow! I'm full of info on the swim so feel free to ask questions.  As far as the overeating, start thinking of whether you eat because you're physically hungry OR for some other reason (an external cue like the time of day, something is just sitting there and it looks good to eat, you're bored, etc). 

With the OW swimming, like other folks have said, it's a huge difference from the pool because you'll have bodies around you AND on top of you, waves coming and going, and often a bottom that you a) can't see and b) can't touch...lots to think about.  I teach swimmers to get comfortable and confident in all sorts of aspects of the swim like, the stroke-remember, freestyle (front crawl) is fast, but you also can do some breaststroke and sidestroke as other options; breathing- you can breathe on the left side, ride side, AND straight ahead (some people do this when sighting); the craziness in the water-there isn't too much you can do to mimic the start, but I use resistance training in the water to practice pulling my body through rough water.


trying1 - 2009-04-15 9:14 AM If it's not too late I'd like to join this group.  I'm also a member of another group from the last mentor program and would like to stay in touch with them too..   my largest weakness is swimming (followed closely by the bike and run) and eating (I over indulge myself occasionally).


Name: Stan

Story:  I live in NYC, so it's semi tough to train.  Mainly train at my gym and central park.  I raced in my first sprint tri in Oct.  I was just happy to finished since I only trained for 7 weeks and now I'm a big fan of the sport.  My goal this year is to do 2 more sprints in the spring and early summer, an Olympic distance at the end of summer and the Montauk sprint in Oct (to see if I improved from last yr).   My biggest weakness right now is swimming, particularly the OW part of it.


Family status: Married 5yrs and have a 21 month old boy.

Current training: due to location I mainly do my training inside and try to get to central park as much as possible.

This year's races: My goal is to do 2 sprints in the spring and early summer, an Olympic distance at the end of summer and the Montauk sprint again so I can see if I've improved from last yr.

2009 races: 1) Iron Clad Sprint , 2)Harriman sprint 3)? (Olympic) 4) Montauk sprint 

Weight loss: I'd like to lose around 12 lbs..  Only problem with that is I eat too much.

 


Hi Sara, I'm looking forward to get to know everyone and learn a few things as well.  

I have done one OWS in my last tri.  It was an eye opening experience..  It was pretty cold (65F), dark and crowded.  I had the typical heart beating a billion times a minute and had to revert to some backstroke.  My next tri at the end of May is going to be interesting..  the water temp is supposed to be between 55 - 59f.  My wife bought me neoprene socks and cap, hopefully that helps.

in terms of over eating...  i think it's all of the above.  luckily the workouts has kept my wt down.  The last two weeks I've been paying more attention to when and what I eat and I can see a difference in my workouts..  

 

Edited by trying1 2009-04-15 10:26 PM
2009-04-15 10:38 PM
in reply to: #2087753

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Subject: RE: wetsuit?
jae.miles - 2009-04-15 10:15 PM After all this swim talk, I'm beginning to wonder if I can really do this part as easily as I thought.

The swim portion of the race I'm planning takes place in a reservoir. Their website says that the water temperature is expected to be 60-65 degrees. It will be in early August. Will I NEED a wetsuit for this?

What are your suggestions?

 
Remember you can always revert to a different stroke.  During my first OWS it was cold and dark and couldn't catch my breath.  I reverted to backstroke for a few hundred yrds.  One thing my new swim coach has told me is to take your time and remember to breath every stroke (especially in the beginning of the race).  I'm sure you will have no problems.

I would recommend a wetsuit, 60-65f is pretty cold.  If you're not used to swimming in cold water any added warmth and buoyancy helps a ton.  
2009-04-16 9:08 AM
in reply to: #2072537

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)
And welcome Anthony!  I will add all you guys to my friends list like Sara said.

Jessica - Your logs are visible.  Good job!

My fiance loves Joe Friels' training Bible!  Here's his website too in case any of you are interested.  http://www2.trainingbible.com/joesblog/blog.html


2009-04-16 1:21 PM
in reply to: #2072537

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)

I am pretty sure I got you all added to my friends!  Inspires coming soon I hope!

2009-04-16 2:27 PM
in reply to: #2072537

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)

So its a new day, and hopefully a nice one outside!  Its +15C here which sure beats the -5C it was a week ago, I am loving it.  Ditch the treadmills and get outside!

2009-04-16 2:58 PM
in reply to: #2072537

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Subject: New to clip-in pedals
Finally broke down and got myself some clip-in pedals a few months ago.  I have never used them before, so it is sooo hard to remember I have to clip out when I come to a stop.  I have done a couple of those slow falls when I have to stop.

People told me to loosed the tension, was going to try that.  I am just guessing it will just come with time and practice because it is not something I am use to.  (even using cages was new to me last year)  

All I can do now is practice, practice , practice, and get a good laugh when I tip over. Anything else? 
2009-04-16 2:59 PM
in reply to: #2087849

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN
trying1 - 2009-04-15 11:16 PM
WittyCityGirl - 2009-04-15 9:42 PM


I have done one OWS in my last tri.  It was an eye opening experience..  It was pretty cold (65F), dark and crowded.  I had the typical heart beating a billion times a minute and had to revert to some backstroke.  My next tri at the end of May is going to be interesting..  the water temp is supposed to be between 55 - 59f.  My wife bought me neoprene socks and cap, hopefully that helps.  

 


55-59* is definitely chilly, the cap will work wonders, just double check on the neo booties to make sure they are legal (some rules state that your hands and feet can't be covered).  For water that cold, a really good warm up isn't an option.  So make sure you have a plan to keep those muscles warm before the swim. 
2009-04-16 3:04 PM
in reply to: #2089589

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Subject: RE: New to clip-in pedals
RobbyN210 - 2009-04-16 3:58 PM Finally broke down and got myself some clip-in pedals a few months ago.  I have never used them before, so it is sooo hard to remember I have to clip out when I come to a stop.  I have done a couple of those slow falls when I have to stop.

People told me to loosed the tension, was going to try that.  I am just guessing it will just come with time and practice because it is not something I am use to.  (even using cages was new to me last year)  

All I can do now is practice, practice , practice, and get a good laugh when I tip over. Anything else? 


There was an article in the most recent Triathlete magazine about "float".  I just got clipless pedals this past September and you're right, getting in and out without busting your a$$ takes patience.  I actually joined a ride with a bike club in the area because I would have to force myself to slow down and practice getting in/out at each stop.  Anywhoo, that extra movement make a lot of difference with being able to get in and out, now it's months later and the float is goofing with my stability when I climb hills.  So, we'll see... 


2009-04-16 5:11 PM
in reply to: #2072537

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)
Robby, about the clip in pedals...loosen the tension (usually underneath the pedal) as much as it will go.  This should make it super easy to get in and out.  Then you can tighten it one click at a time until it is where you would like it to be.  Also, if you can think about it before getting to the stop...unclip one foot and just coast to the stop so that way you are not trying to unclip at the last second.  They will get easier!
2009-04-16 6:16 PM
in reply to: #2084907

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN

Oh my goodness this is an active group!  I've been stuck on service this week and haven't had a chance to check in, and suddenly there are 4 pages!  I'll get everyone added to my friend list soon.  We've been pretty busy and I'm working on a couple of presentations.  This is the hardest part of training for me- trying to fit it in around life.  I know I need to make it a priority, but it's easier said than done.  I'm hoping at least on the weekend to get a couple of workouts in.

Sara- Thanks for checking with Kenj about the Cdga master's- Dexter's offered up that one too, but it's kind of a haul for me (about 1/2 hour drive). The one I'd like to do is the RAMS- they aren't closing down- they just close off membership until the fall when they get full.  I'm hoping I can sneak in, because their pool is close and they swim later in the evening.  I have a place on Seneca lake, so in the summer I swim there (let me know if you want to come up for a workout!).  I'll ask Kenj about the closer ones.

I see there have been lots of swim advice questions!  I survived my first couple of tris by using a lot of breaststroke, then I finally learned not to kick so hard, and finally was able to swim more than 400 yards freestyle.  I definately recommend a wetsuit- I am not particularly bouyant (or warm- my insulation is concentrated around the midsection which doesn't help) and I am much happier with a fullsuit than a shortjohn.  Renting is really worthwhile since it's a big investment and hard to try out different models.

My biggest problem with the swim is getting in the water.  It is so cold, I just dread it.  The only time I'm really happy to swim is in the lake on a 90 degree day after a long run.  Then it feels good.  Does anyone have suggestions for getting over it?  Except HTFU?

 

WittyCityGirl - 2009-04-14 9:37 PM Karen, here's a reply I got from Kenj:

"I swim with the Canandaigua Masters and they meet Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday at 8:30 pm at the Canandaigua High School.
What group is she with now that is folding? There are 3 or 4 groups in Rochester that are active so I am sure I know someone that is swimming at one closer to her than Canandaigua. "

Hope that helps!

I'm trying to get into a Master's swimming group, but the one that would work for location and timing is (probably) closed.  I do have a call in, but they just had a member die (how horrible would that be!), and it's up in the air.  I'm trying to run 2/week, and bike at least once.  I'm on service this week which will keep things light.

2009-04-16 8:33 PM
in reply to: #2089589

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Subject: RE: New to clip-in pedals
RobbyN210 - 2009-04-16 3:58 PM Finally broke down and got myself some clip-in pedals a few months ago.  I have never used them before, so it is sooo hard to remember I have to clip out when I come to a stop.  I have done a couple of those slow falls when I have to stop.

People told me to loosed the tension, was going to try that.  I am just guessing it will just come with time and practice because it is not something I am use to.  (even using cages was new to me last year)  

All I can do now is practice, practice , practice, and get a good laugh when I tip over. Anything else? 


congrats on the purchase.  they help a ton..  though learning how to use them does take some practice.  I remember when I first learned how to use them i practiced a lot on a bike trainer.  It helps in getting used to the timing and the feel of clipping in and out but it doesn't help with your balance.. 
2009-04-16 8:37 PM
in reply to: #2089593

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - OPEN
WittyCityGirl - 2009-04-16 3:59 PM
trying1 - 2009-04-15 11:16 PM
WittyCityGirl - 2009-04-15 9:42 PM


I have done one OWS in my last tri.  It was an eye opening experience..  It was pretty cold (65F), dark and crowded.  I had the typical heart beating a billion times a minute and had to revert to some backstroke.  My next tri at the end of May is going to be interesting..  the water temp is supposed to be between 55 - 59f.  My wife bought me neoprene socks and cap, hopefully that helps.  

 




55-59* is definitely chilly, the cap will work wonders, just double check on the neo booties to make sure they are legal (some rules state that your hands and feet can't be covered).  For water that cold, a really good warm up isn't an option.  So make sure you have a plan to keep those muscles warm before the swim. 


 Thanks for the advice!  I just checked..  luckily for me they do allow the booties..  they actually recommend them!  I'm looking forward to trying them.
2009-04-16 9:14 PM
in reply to: #2072537

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)
Hey folks!!! WOW four pages deep after just a few days, great!!!

For the folks who don't like getting into the cold water-I would recommend a warm-up routine.  Doing a short 5 minute jog or dynamic stretching for 5 minutes should do the trick (I HATE getting into cold water, too, I can get in until my arm pits just fine but that's the hardest part for me to get wet).  My pre-race routine: I do a 2-3 minute jog on race day then LOTS of dynamic stretching-arm circles (single arm forward/backward, both).  Leg (pendulum swings) - forward & back, across, trunk twists, ankle circles.  BTW, moving your arms increases your heart rate more than just moving your legs, SO when you are getting ready for a swim, race or training, get those arms moving!  That'll get you warmed up.  PLUS, keep in mind that there's all sorts of swim apparel available to help keep you warm. 


2009-04-16 9:23 PM
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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)


You guys are doing a great job encouraging each other and answering/asking questions.  

Here's my question(s):  What's the minimum you swim to prepare for a race?  What's your ideal swimming routine?

For me... when I was preparing for just the sprint distance, I swam about 1,500-2,000 yards two days/week.  I got away with it because I have decent technique.  If I were just doing sprint distance, I think I ideally would swim that same distance three to four days/week.

Currently, I am training for a HIM (half Ironman) and so my training varies week to week.  I started out with 1,200 yard swims 3 days/week in January (I think) and one of my most recent swims was 3,000 yards.

If you guys need help with a workout or drills, let me know.  I'd love to help!!  I have prepared oodles of workouts for folks.  Plus, I believe in taking swimming beyond lap after lap of front crawl.  I like to switch things up with equipment, drills, and different strokes.  Not only that, but varying your speed will definitely give you an advantage.  

For the ladies:  Don't throw away those old bathing suits!!!! Wear a new/tighter fitting suit and then wear an old one on top.  This is called a drag suit because the old suit absorbs water, making your your suit slightly heavier and the loose fabric catches the water-making you work harder.  This is a REALLY simple strategy for your swimming.  I don't necessarily know if it is more psychological or not, but on race day when you ditch the drag suit and go with the tight one you'll automatically feel faster.  Sometimes that good vibe perception is what you need for a great race!
 
2009-04-16 10:40 PM
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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)
Hey guys/gals...I need to catch up reading here, but I did add a table to my blog that some of you may find useful. Feel free to copy/paste the html and use it in your blogs...

======
<table border="1">
<tbody style="text-align: center;">
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: large;"><
a href="../forums/thread-view.asp?tid=153697">WittyCityGirl's Group</a></span></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=83477"
>WittyCityGirl</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=129125"
>Betsy0706</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=41602"
>chichitao</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=138662"
>jae.miles</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=76480"
>jford2309</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=2804"
>momandmd</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=105311"
>RobbyN210</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=122988"
>oshunluvah</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=56434"
>Robb</a></td>
</tr>
<tr style="text-align: center;">
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="index-weekly.asp?memberid=110960"
>trying1</a></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
It should look like this (but you can edit it to your liking):
WittyCityGirl's Group
WittyCityGirl
Betsy0706
chichitao
jae.miles
jford2309
momandmd
RobbyN210
oshunluvah
Robb
trying1


Edited by bigredx24x 2009-04-16 10:45 PM
2009-04-17 9:15 AM
in reply to: #2072537

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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)

I’m with you Karen!  I hate getting into cold water.  I’m supposed to do an OW swim for practice tomorrow but with a 70% rain chance I’m not sure it will happen.     Thanks for the advice on warming up before entering the water Sara.  And for the advice on the suit…I’ve never heard of anyone doing that.  I know guys that wear board shorts but I didn’t think us ladies had an option. 

 

As to your question Sara, I usually swim 2x a week averaging 2000 yards each time.  (I am just doing sprints this year.)  For me it is hard to hit the pool without a coach so that is one thing I invested in.  And it was totally worth it!  (no boring lap after lap workouts)

Happy Friday everyone!

2009-04-17 9:38 AM
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Subject: RE: WittyCityGirl's Group - FULL =)
how did you go about finding a coach and how do you know it's a good one? and what is the typical cost? i'm seriously considering getting one but i don't know what i'm looking for.
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