Jamie's HIM/IM Training Group-CLOSED (Page 3)

jamiej - 2011-01-14 3:47 PM So I have a few votes to chat a bit about training with power and power meters in general. Does anybody else have some additional questions/topics for the group? Does anybody in the group currently use a power meter? If so, chime in on the kind and pros/cons of it. Do most of you use a GPS watch for running? If so, what kind? Pros/cons? Are you running according to a HR zone or are you running to maintain an average pace? Let's share a bit b/c my way is absolutely not the highway! And besides, my equipment, like myself is getting a little grey around the edges. I'll post my info in a bit but first I need to eat! Jamie

Danrl88 - 2011-01-14 4:32 PM



I do not have a power meter for the bike, I am currently using a pretty archaic method to test progress.  I keep the tension constant and the gearing the same and just monitor my "speed" and cadence to use as a baseline.  I know it is not a true speed but it gives me some benchmarks. 

I have been reading Dr. Phil Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing.  And have decided to build my aerobic base through HR training keeping everything under 151 which is my Max Aerobic HR according to his calculations.  This has slowed my running down a bit, but I have had some trouble getting my HR up that high on the bike some days.  I got the book for Christmas, so previous to this I was running and biking by distance and pace goals and ignoring HR.

As for running, I use a garmin 305, I like it quite a lot despite the size.  The only problem I have is the HR monitor has been a little wonky when the gps is on (ie. giving me HR readings of 220 1-2 mins into my run.)  I have just been running lately with the gps turned off and having no problems with the HR.

Thanks for the advice on nutrition, my first race went very poorly and my second (while I thought I had a handle on nutrition) it was hard to tell because of the 40 minute break I had in the middle of the bike waiting to find a chain breaker to shorten my chain into a single gear because my derailleur exploded at the top of a hill.  So needless to say it was not my ideal race.  I know I need to take a more structured approach to nutrition during training to mimic race day.

jamiej - 2011-01-14 5:32 PM Good points Dan. You hit on one that I like to point out. If you are on a trainer then speed is a good indicator of power all other things being equal. There are a lot of caveats to it but it is a very good 'poor mans powertap'. The only drawback to this is that it's not really applicable to the road b/c, unlike the trainer, you have to figure in terrain, wind resistance and other things into the equation. Great way to train on the trainer but never chase an MPH on during a race. That is a surefire way to blow up! I know a lot of people check out the Kurt Kinetic 'power meter'. Basically, KK trainers are so well built that they have developed an algorithm to turn speed into a power number. Again, great on the trainer but you can't take it on the road. As I'm sure you know, the max HR calculations in a lot of these books are guesstimates at best. Testing in a lab with an experience physiologist is really the only way to know your true maxHR. But, I did exactly as you did early on and it worked well enough. Like most things in triathlon, consistency over time yields the best benefits. There are no magic toys or workouts. Jamie

Danrl88 - 2011-01-14 4:32 PM



I do not have a power meter for the bike, I am currently using a pretty archaic method to test progress.  I keep the tension constant and the gearing the same and just monitor my "speed" and cadence to use as a baseline.  I know it is not a true speed but it gives me some benchmarks. 

I have been reading Dr. Phil Maffetone's Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing.  And have decided to build my aerobic base through HR training keeping everything under 151 which is my Max Aerobic HR according to his calculations.  This has slowed my running down a bit, but I have had some trouble getting my HR up that high on the bike some days.  I got the book for Christmas, so previous to this I was running and biking by distance and pace goals and ignoring HR.

As for running, I use a garmin 305, I like it quite a lot despite the size.  The only problem I have is the HR monitor has been a little wonky when the gps is on (ie. giving me HR readings of 220 1-2 mins into my run.)  I have just been running lately with the gps turned off and having no problems with the HR.

Thanks for the advice on nutrition, my first race went very poorly and my second (while I thought I had a handle on nutrition) it was hard to tell because of the 40 minute break I had in the middle of the bike waiting to find a chain breaker to shorten my chain into a single gear because my derailleur exploded at the top of a hill.  So needless to say it was not my ideal race.  I know I need to take a more structured approach to nutrition during training to mimic race day.

mpdiotte - 2011-01-14 10:27 PM

I have a gamin 305 with he and cadence. I normally run with pace and track the bike by cadence. I have tried running by heart rate but it's hard on the ego and pace has worked for me in the past. I'm a little lost on the bike, I normally just try and stay within a 90 cadence. Thats what my local bike shop said I should do. With two kids I can't afford a power meter, especially since I bought a new TT bike as my Xmas gift. I do have one question though. I live in Vancouver and the winters here suck, I do have a trainer but was told with a full carbon bike it's not a good idea to use. I have used I twice and friends told me it's fine but I am now having nightmares about wrecking the bike. What everyones vote on that. Mike

vibratingp00 - 2011-01-14 10:18 PM

I also rock the "poor mans powertap" on the trainer and a Garmin 310xt.  I use the HR monitor, but mostly run based on pace.  I tried to do HR zones last year, but felt that I was going too slow, so I shelved it.  I probably could have given it a little more time.

As for this weekend, Im looking at at 10 mile run tomorrow, hopefully the paths out her in VA are ice free, and 1.5hr on the trainer on Sunday.  Im going to give the water intake test a try on the run, itll be interesting to see how much water I really need in the colder weather, especially since I do a lousy job hydrating on winter runs.

jamiej - 2011-01-15 4:50 AM All, Here is a great article on running. I've come to like this approach b/c it's worked for me. In general, more is more. Run more and you will get faster. Period. Sometimes as athletes, especially new to a sport, it's easy to fall prey to all of the marketing hype for everything. In general, doing more of something will make you better. It really is just that easy. Consistency over time will give the biggest gains in my opinion. http://chuckiev.blogspot.com/2008/02/miles-make-champions.htmlS Enjoy, Jamie

ChicagoMan65 - 2011-01-15 8:10 AM

Have room for one more?  Let me know, would love to jump in.

syscrash - 2011-01-15 9:00 AM

I've a couple questions.

1.  Can everyone see my training logs?  I think I've got them setup correctly.
2.  I've been sick with a chest cold since Monday, so I haven't done anything all week. As of today I've just got a little bit of congestion in ears and tiny bit in chest. I'll probably be near normal by Monday.  When I was just lifting weights, I'd lift like that no problem. Training like this however, I'm not sure. I really don't want to take off more time, but shoud I?   If I didn't, I would repeat my last week's workouts.

3.  Do you use cadence meter to measure distance on a trainer? Recommendations?

Thanks!
Brien

jamiej - 2011-01-14 3:39 PM Wally, You may want to think about Muncie 70.3 for a nice HIM prior to IMKY. I've done the race 5-6 times. It is very well done and very flat! It moved into the 70.3 series this year so the $$ have gone up. Have you ever tried to brutalize yourself at the Triple T in May? It's in your neck of the woods (Portsmouth). It's cheap but incredibly brutal. It will make IMKY look like a fun run. Sometimes the organizers (HFP racing) let you sign up for just the HIM on Sunday. Just a few ideas.... Jamie[/QUOTe

I'll go ahead and add a few things...

Wally - You may also want to consider Cardinal Harbor Half.  I've heard that part of the course is on the IMLOO course. 

As far as training, I've got a 60 minute trainer session today with a long swim, strength training a 2 hour outdoor bike tomorrow (weather permitting).  In training, I also use a HR for both biking and running.  I got the Garmin 310 last year after my 305 died.

I can't believe I have to say this, but I want the snow to melt.  We still have four inches on the ground, but it's supposed to get into the upper 40's.

Jeepguy2358 - 2011-01-15 11:52 AM



Good suggestion! I forgot about Cardinal Harbor.

vibratingp00 - 2011-01-15 11:57 AM

sweat test -

178.6 - 176.4 = 2.4 + .75 (waster) = 3.15 X 16 = 50.4 / 1.5 (run time) = 33.6 oz/hr

temperature was right around 32F, and I normally would have taken in more water, but the drinking fountains are now all turned off along my running route.

clewis38 - 2011-01-14 5:52 PM

Can  anyone refer me to a good online article (or site) about HR training?  I know the basics, but I've never really wrapped my mind around it.  Now that I have a HR monitor for both bike and run, I'd like to look into it.