jsiegs and slornow's Train Hard and Have Fun group - CLOSED for Training (Page 3)

I have a question about race plans.  I'm training for my first Half Ironman.  I hear alot about "sticking to your race plan".  I don't have a plan.  What should be in it?  Do I need one?

Thanks
Christy

I'm talking about a race plan, how I should approach each stage of the race.  I normally just try to get through each stage.  Guessing I might need more of a "plan" than that.

slornow - 2011-04-27 3:11 PM

cbrookhart - 2011-04-27 2:05 PM

slornow - 2011-04-27 2:03 PM

cbrookhart - 2011-04-27 1:37 PM

I have a question about race plans.  I'm training for my first Half Ironman.  I hear alot about "sticking to your race plan".  I don't have a plan.  What should be in it?  Do I need one?

Thanks
Christy

Christy-are you talking about a training plan that gets you ready for the race or a "race plan" which would map out how you intend to approach/complete each stage of the race?

Randy

I'm talking about a race plan, how I should approach each stage of the race.  I normally just try to get through each stage.  Guessing I might need more of a "plan" than that.

Christy-I understand.  That is a tough one.  I looked at your logs and it looks like you use a HR monitor for your bike and run training? Do you have a specific goal for the race? Just finish or beat a specific time?

For my HIM last November I just tried to be comfortable through the swim (not much to gained in the big picture from pushing hard...maybe a minute or two?? I use a Powermeter so I had specific watts in mind for the bike which I broke down into thirds.  For the run I had a pace in mind that I wanted to begin with..pretty easy and then tried to push it over the last third of the race.  I thought my bike was poor but I think it resulted in a stronger run.  Chances are if you kill the bike the run will suffer.

Hard to predict the swim but I would certainly go easy.. Folks say in the longer races that you can't win the race in the swim but you can lose it.  Well, if a race has a swim I'm not going to win it anyway   I would suggest a comfortable swim pace that does not take anything out of you for the bike.  Then for the bike and run you should have an idea of what your HR zones are and I would try to pace based on those.  I dont train based on HR but I suspect there is information online that suggests HR zones for different distances.  Someone here may have some more specific info . 

Randy 

Thanks, Randy.  I guess I should figure out what my goals are and go from there.  I do train with a HR monitor but I'm not sure I want to wear it for the race.  I thought about getting a powermeter, but I'm afraid my husband might leave me if I spend anymore money on my bike   Would you suggest one? 

I'm mostly concerend with the bike.  I really want to do well on the bike leg becuase it's something I've struggled with.  But I don't want to have a horrible run because of it. 

Christy

Christy -

Randy had some good advice.  I've read an article here about dividing in thirds.  For the bike it was roughly 18miles low Z2, 18 miles mid-upper Z2, 18 miles high Z2/low Z3.  The faster you are the higher in the ranges you shoot for.  If you will be out there longer, you need to have a lower effort, since you'll be doing it for a longer time.  For the run, 5 miles Z2/3, 5 miles Z3/4, then a 5k...and run it like a 5k!  Same concept on the run as on the bike.  For nutrition - guidelines are 1.5 to 2 cal/lb/hr on the bike and 1-1.5 on the run.

That being said, when it comes to long course (HIM/IM) practice is KEY!!!  Practice your nutrition.  Practice your pace.  odds are your first training attempt will end poorly, but don't worry, it ended poorly in training, not in a race!  Reflect on what happened - too much food, too little food, the wrong food?  If you can't run 5 miles after a 45 mile bike at goal HR, well, the goal HR on the bike needs to be refined.  There is most definitely a certain level of "guess and test" to nutrition and pace for HIM/IM.  Start early and be prepared to experiment to a small degree.  If you nail it early, you'll get some great training pushing that envelope just a bit and keep getting faster up until race day.

Christy - this part isn't meant to pick on you, but it is an important thing I think lot's of people don't realize and it can lead to bad results.

 **The biggest thing drilled into me by my friend is not to think that you'll come up with something special on race day.** 

Your body isn't an 80's feel good movie.  Your glycogen stores don't care how much you want it.  Your cramping muscles could care less how much heart Kevin Cosner's brother had racing up the Rockies (American Flyers, great movie, FYI).  You can only do as much as your training will allow.  Prove you can do it in training before you try it in a race (nothing new on race day afterall).  You'll never run a perfect race - you could always have gone just a little faster! But 5% under will lead to a much faster time than 5% over.

My last piece of advice is that your first attempt at HIM/IM probably won't go as planned or as well as you thought.  It just comes with the territory.  It happened to me in my first crack at the HIM distance.  I learned a lot though and I know round 2 will be much better (well, assuming I can start training again sometime soon!).

ETA: some grammer fixed...spelling still remains suspect though

Hey is there room for another Marylander? I am originally from Silver Spring MD just north of DC. Currently living in Cincinnati, OH

NAME: Doug: dughgoue

STORY:  My brother in law got me to do my first Tri last year, and now I try not to spend all my thinking of ways to beat him the next time.  Completed 2 sprints last year, and one this year already the swim was indoor.  I want ot work up to at least one Oly this year in Aug, and currently considering doing one in July.  I grew up swimming since I was 6.  Played almost every other sport growing up, but was down to swimming, wrestling and some football during high school. 

I absolutely love the Triathlons. The people are great and always encouraging, and its just really great to get out and away from my computer that I have to stare at all day at work.

FAMILY STATUS: Married, for almost 3 years now. No kids, wife is finishing up a Phd hopefully this spring so might be moving in the next year.

CURRENT TRAINING: A little sporatic now, the weather has been messing up my plans to get in some serious bike time. 

2011 RACES: Universtiy of Miami (Oxford, OH) student foundation Sprint Tri Apr 16 (1:26:24), 

Cincinnati Tri (Sprint or maybe Oly) July 24

Northeast Tri (Northeast MD) Oly Aug 14

WEIGHTLOSS: currently at 5'10" and holding 188 lbs, down from 205 at christmas.  Would be more comfortable closer to 170 for the season.  No big deal though.

Anyone run without socks on? I tried that for my run today and it was a learning experience. 32 min run covering 4 miles, right on my 8 min mile pace.  I want to train myself to run without socks so that I don't have to put socks on in T2, any advice would be welcome.

Welcome!  Northeast is a fun race.

Thanks for putting the list together.  I think 10-15 will be a good group.  Historically, several people will drop off slowly, so we want to keep a good group throughout without being too large and impersonal.  What do you guys think?

There's an interesting thread on race tactics in the Tri Talk forum.  It started as what are some tactics you use to win races, but has changed into wether or not using race tactics (drafting when legal, surging up a hill or around a corner or at a water stop or hiding your pain to beat a competitor) "cheapens" the race.

I think this could be a good discussion for us to get to know a little about each other and why we're out here.  Will you duke it out with a competitor to finish a spot higher or do you prefer to ignore everyone and just race your race?  I think it also boils down to this: why are you doing triathlon races?

Just an FYI - I'll be out all day tomorrow at a "no electronics allowed" meeting, so I hope to catch up on all the discussion tomorrow evening when I get home.

Wow, I just read through the original thread on this topic and there are some strong opinions either way. As for myself, I use tactics to help me race a better race. I am not out to destroy someone elses desire to finish or race but I try and motivate my self through small victories throughout the race.

1. On my first race I tried to keep it steady up the hills on the bike and take advantage of the downhill leading into another hill or a flat. On a few hills I was passed going up the hill but then the person rested at the top and I passed them on the downhill and never saw them again. Gravity can be your friend on raceday.

2. I will draft on a run, there is no rule that says you can't and I did in cross country and I would expect someone to latch on to me and use me. It is part of running. Often I will try and keep up or draft behind someone that passes me 1. You can often call a runners bluff that is trying to surge past you and hold them off or as they slow you can pass them and get some distance 2. Often if I pick up my pace abit i will realize that I can go a bit faster and improve my race and if I can't keep there pace hopefully I will settle back into a pace that was faster than when i got passed.

3. If I am trying to pass someone that is going just a little faster than me I will run behind them for 30 seconds or so and then try and surge past them to hopefully discourage them from coming along with me.

So as a competitive person I say use tactics that fit your race plan and go for a PR.

Kevin

Would there possibly be room for one more? 

NAME: MattCan- Matt

STORY: I am a 22 yo college student. I am studying Physical Education and will be graduating this spring. Hopefully I will be starting my teaching and coaching career this next fall. The reason this group caught my eyes is that I am currently talking to a school in Maryland about hiring me as PE teacher and Athletic Director for next year.

I played team sports all through high school and first few years of college, mainly basketball. I have always been a runner and enjoyed running longer distances in the off season to improve my performance for sports. My second year of college I got into cycling, and at the same time heard about Ironman. The summer before my third year of college I really got into riding a lot and kind of on a whim signed up for Ironman 70.3 Boise without really any swim knowledge or any actual triathlon experience. I spent the next 9 months training and learning as much as I could. I did my first triathlon (a sprint in early may) and got 3rd overall, did my first Olympic a week later and got 2nd in my AG. Two weeks later I was in the water for Boise 70.3 feeling confident that I was going to rock it. I definitely had a wake up call, and realized how far I truly have to go. I finished but was absolutely wiped out. I got sick from the swim, struggled in the 35mph winds on the bike, and walked most of the run. But I loved it for some sick reason. Mostly because I know I can do better and feel like just finishing is not nearly good enough for me.

I did another Olympic that fall and knocked 5 minutes off my previous time. Then did my first Marathon a month later. I suffered an equally painful experience as my first HIM as an IT Band issue I had been letting slide flared up very badly and forced me into a limp/crawl for the last 12 miles of the race. I still finished that one too, but once again gained a greater appreciation for the distance and training required.

I am coming into this season, more aware I guess of what it takes, but equally eager to succeed. I love the balance that triathlon puts into my life and couldn't see myself living any other way. I love the community, I love the challenge, and I love the way I feel.

FAMILY STATUS: Single. Tons of family and friends to support my journey emotionally, but not many that actually participate in fitness activities.

TRAINING: I am following somewhat of the Beginners HIM plan from BT, but since I did it last year I have made a few adjustments. I am typically training somewhere between 10-15 hours a week w/ 2-3 Swim days, 3-4 Bike days, and 4-5 Run days. I have been doing some more Yoga and strength training stuff this year, and spend several minutes a day on a foam roller for that troublesome IT Band.

RACES:

4/15- Snake River Triathlon (4th OV, 1st AG)

4/24- Richard Kegley 5k (18:00, 3rd OV)

5/15- Tinman Triathlon, Sprint

5/29 Onion Man Triathlon, Olympic

6/19 Saunders Subaru Victoria BC, HIM

7/31 Spokane Triathlon, Olympic

8/7 Troika Triathlon, HIM

9/17 Grand Columbia Long Course, HIM

GOALS:

Not exactly sure how high or low I should be shooting yet. I want to do the best I can in whatever race I enter and see where that puts me I guess. Just have fun and stay healthy I guess.

Hope you guys have room for me, I would really like to learn from your experience. One question I have already is... how do I upload my Garmin 305 data onto my training logs? I did this for a little while last year but for some reason it doesn't want to let me do it this time. It says no device found when I try and upload stuff, any ideas? 

Hey Everyone,

Since I am new to the group I wanted to let you know who I am : )

Name/Age: Rob Avola, 44

Story:  My family is very involved in sports and I am surronded by people who love and support me.  We have had the opportunity to do many races.  Every year I watch the Ironman on TV, I would get emotional and kept saying that I am going to an Ironman.  Now is the time.  I have a twin brother who has competed in three full Ironman's and a sister in law who has done one.  My dad has completed 5 marathons, and my sister two marathons. 

I am a teacher, I am presently teaching at the college and high school level.

I did my first tri, part of the 'Bud Light' series in 1986 and I loved it, of course I was only 19 at the time.  Have been doing smaller tri's and other races since and enjoyed participating in each one.

Family:  I have a loving and supportive family and friends.  I am divorced with two wonderful boys (8 and 6) who are my world.  I hope that they can learn from dad's adventures to never give up in life.

Training: Following the BT Half Ironman 20 week training plan, so far so good.

Goals: Complete the Orlando HIM in May (just a few weeks to go! : ) and a Great Floridian full IM in October.  Just going for the T-Shirt, I don't think I will set any world records, but I will have fun.

Races:

This past year:

• Naples Tri (short one) 5K run, 10 mile bike and .25 swim in June 2010, 1:07:30
• Turkey Trot, 4 miler run, 33:57 in Nov. 2010
• River Ruts and Roots 1/2 Marathon (sprained my ankle on a root, ouch, kept me out a while) 2:17:35 in Jan. 2011
• Hooters to Hooters 1/2 Marathon 1:51:47 in March 2011
• Naples Phil 10K, 49:07 in April 2011
• NEC 5K, 23:50 in April 2011

Future races are

• Orlando HIM, May 2011
• Naples Tri, June 2011
• Fouth of July 5K, July 2011
• Clearmount IM, Oct. 2011

Past races in last 5 years include:

• Chicago Marathon 2007 and 2008
• Naples Half Marathon, a bunch
• Various Half Marathons
• Three or four Metric Century Bike Rides

Weight Loss:  Ben and Jerry's and I have a discussion about that every night.

I am thankful to be part of this group and glad to be able to talk with other triathlete's who have more experience than I do. Thanks for the opportyunity, I am looking forward to having many good chat's.

I am in the "I just race my race" camp.   It could be becaue I'm slow and the difference between coming in 115th and 116th isn't that big of a deal to me.  That being said, if I'm close to someone at the end of the race, I try my best to pass them.  Not sure I have any tactics, just run faster.

Christy

Background: I will never win my age group. I will never receive a medal after a race. I will never run a race as an 'elite.' The only person I am attempting to best when I run is myself. Mentally, I go into each race to finish with the best time I can and to give it my all; I want to run fast (well, fast for me) and PR. This mindset has helped me drop my pace from 11-ish minute miles when I first started doing 5Ks several years ago to last year's 5K PR of 27.57, and to knock 20 minutes off my sprint tri trime between my first and second races. I find that I'm still PRing in races as I gain muscle and improve my training, and I LOVE that at 31, I'm still reaching new peaks of fitness in my life! I'm still exploring how fast and how far I can go, and am happy to report that I haven't yet reached my limits.

That said, I find that I thrive on the competition of actually racing. Though I enjoy meeting people at the start line and finish line and making friends, I equally love passing people anywhere I can on the course. That little extra motivation to pass the person I've been following for miles helps me achieve my best. Last year I found someone on my 10-miler race to pace with, and we both pushed ourselves to keep going (I was injured and hurting), but I'm usually very internally driven.

To answer the original question, then, I do this for me. I do it because I love it, because it's fun, and because I take pride in having a great race and in pushing myself past what I thought were my limits! 

I personally enjoy 'duking it out with my competition' in a very friendly and cooperative way. Competition for me is what makes triathlon racing such an exciting experience. I want to push myself to be the best I can be and having others on the course trying to do the same thing pushes me beyond my boundaries. If using tactics to beat the guy in front of me allows me to have a faster time, or better race I don't see how that could 'cheapen' the race. What I don't agree with is doing things that harm another persons race experience. Being a jerk just for the sake of winning a race is definitely not for me and I want no part of those type of race tactics.

I did a 8.5 mile run this morning. It should have been longer but I wanted to have time to swim. I got all ready to swim when they closed the pool because of a storm . I'll try to make it back tonight but I'm not sure.

What is everyone else doing today?