Sometimes You Just Can't Fix Ignorance (Page 3)

At the VERY least you would think a female faculty member would need to be present, the whole CYA thing.

My guess is those of us against spanking/hitting feel this way because we were and it made a deep & painful impression we choose not to repeat with our own children.  When someones views on parenting are different from our own we get very emotional and take it personally. Nobody wants to be a bad parent.

I believe there was a faculty member present...

it seems on this thread, a large majority of those that were spanked as children, 1) felt they deserved it because they broke a rule and knew the consequences, and 2) the intensity of the spanking didn't cross a specific threshold to lead them to believe they weren't being spanked for anything other than #1

I wonder if those that were spanked as children and are against it as adults, feel that the reason was not made clear or their spanking crossed that specific threshold...

I'll take a guess... to make us stronger?

Neizchte??

I knew why I was getting spanked. It crossed every parenting threshold IMO - I was humiliated & had pain inflicted on me by somebody who was bigger and had more power. That isn't ok ever.

that's the threshold I was talking about and I know, as you said, everybody parents differently and I understand where you're coming from...

I believe and i bet all the others in favor believe you can spank your kid without it being humiliating and/or too painful..

and I don't think it felt humiliating to me as a kid because, i knew when I broke specific rules, it was coming

Actually it is to keep us from repeating a given action that is potentially harmful to us.

How often do you deliberately put your hand on a hot stove?  That lesson came from doing something and finding out it causes you pain so you don't do it again.

Derailment on.... so in that respect, no adult can ever impose their will over a child... because at the end of the day it is a still a bigger more powerful person imposing their will over the weak.

I mean just speaking to the example... having pain or humiliation inflicted on you by an equal is OK.

There is a huge difference between having pain inflicted on you by random strangers big or small and it being by your parent for purposes of behavior corrections. Same thing, control, discipline, rules, boundaries... huge difference between the two.

Just as was mentioned above, we feel pain for a reason. It is a biological, physiological response to get us to pay attention or correct our behavior. When we have a stress fracture and we continue running on it anyway, that is our body telling us to knock it off. Humiliation is another social que we have learned from real feelings to knock it off. When I steal from you... and you find out, and you tell everyone in the village I am a thief, and I am humiliated and do not like how I feel... that is my que to knock it off. Like it or not, we are made the way we are made.

What blows my mind in this modern age of enlightenment... is that we just think we can discount 100,000s of thousands of years of evolution and proclaim we are all so above bad things now. There are no more bad thoughts, feelings, or outcomes. We can outlaw every bad thing and it will just magically end. No more bullies, no more bad words, no more mean speech, no more discrimination for any reason what so ever. Everyone gets a medal, we are all winners, we are all special wonderful unique snowflakes.

Yes you can use power/pain/control to do bad things... yes you use power/pain/control to shape people to do incredible wonderful things. It all works in the real world. Bad things will continue to happen, we will continue to overcome them... or not.

Um, isn't the parent going to always be bigger (at least in the child's younger years) and as the adult they have the power (and responsibility) to make decisions for their children.   And that isn't ok ever?

I've read everyone's posts and can see valid points for and against spanking, but the biggest misconception I am seeing is that those opposed to spanking associate it with violence.  Some parents take it overboard and as mentioned numerous times, spanking shouldn't be done in anger....

I was spanked as a child and spanked my children when they were being disciplined.  I've also been around parents who DON'T spank their kids and try to reason with them over and over and over....To the point that MY kids were looking at me like "seriously"?

Sometimes you have to be the adult and whatever method you choose better work.  Debating a six year old about why they need to tell you before they cross the street to the neighbors house without telling Mom or Dad first ain't happening in my house...

I would just like to say, at this particular time in the discussion......my children are not special, so I spank them.  Oh yeah, almost forgot....I also require that they address adults by their proper name or title.

My chidlren lead a horrible existence.....I hope they survive.

Carry on.

So how long have you been suffering from this incredibly low self esteem and who can we blame for the horrendous childhood your kids have suffered?

I'm so sorry you were never empowered as a child and have to resort to exerting control over your precious children to feel better. Just know, that I love you, I care about you, and you are a beautiful special snowflake.

So the spankers don't want to be generalized and then they insinuate that children that are not spanked do not respect adults?

My kids make mistakes, are punished (not physically) but are also great.  I am told on a regular basis how well behaved my children are. My young daughters are so well behaved I am able to take them to my place of work and nobody minds and have told me they are welcome anytime.  I respect them, they respect each other, adults and other kids.

No it is not OK IMO to exhibit power through physical means.  Yes, your boss can humiliate you and is in a powerful position but it is not OK for him/her to hit you. 

If it is OK to hit your kids, when do you stop? And why?  Some say reason, I know my FIL does. He wanted us to start hitting our daughter at 6 months and until she was 4 or 5 when he felt we would be able to reason with her.

If you are not inflicting pain (as another poster suggested) why do it? If you talk and hit why not just stop at the talking part?

My children address adults as Miss First Name or Mr. First Name as is custom in the south.

Oh, I was empowered as a child....I was empowered to straighten up and fly right by a "thundering velvet hand". 

Yes!

We don't allow our children to shoot us.

Bingo!  

Reason, thought, and explanation are all well and good, but at the end of the day pain is what keeps us from doing things that are harmful to us... so when you don't have the ability  to reason, talk, and explain why not to do something (or it isn't working), our primal sense of pain may just well get the point across. 

Peace, through superior firepower.

X2 on all of this.

As I mentioned before the key to good parenting is consequences and consistency, no matter what the method of punishment.  You can spank your kids and have them turn out to be horrendous brats and you can never spank your kids and have them turn into horrendous brats.  It's more about parents being consistent than the method of punishment in my mind.

Also, when it comes to spanking there are limits.  If you "spank" a kid with a baseball bat and break their bones, yeah that's an outright assault and is illegal and most certainly will do nothing but harm to your child.  Much in the same way of putting a kid in timeout by locking them in a kennel for days at a time is horrible mental abuse and is illegal and does nothing but harm your child.  

I know parents that don't spank their kids that have wonderful kids and I know parents that don't spank their kids who have what I would deem as miniature demons living in their house.  It's the parents, not that punishment that matters.

I pretty much agree with this.  But doesn't that imply that spanking is more of a convenience than a requirement?

You know your own child better than anyone else on the planet.  I don't think it takes much creativity to come up with some sort of non-physical negative reinforcement against their bad behavior.  Just as they know how to push your buttons, you know theirs.

My parents didn't spank me but I can safely say that was a good move on their part.  I was the sort of kid who would choose that every day and twice on Sunday over doing extra chores or pulling weeds out in the garden.  Spankings are over with relatively quickly.

Food for thought.

I was spanked.

I spank my kids.

My husband and I deal with kids on a regular basis.  Me, when they call 911 because someone is hurt or something is on fire, and my husband when the parents call 911 because their child is out of hand.

We know the statistics of failed parenting from that perspective, and we'll carry on with our current plan. 

In public, my kids are CONSTANTLY complimented on their behavior, their manners, and their intelligence.

ETA - my husband and I will be the only ones who will ever lay a hand on my kids. I don't feel it's any of the school's business.

There's certainly a lot of debate on the topic and I don't know the "best" answer.  Our kids were spanked, but they were also very rarely spanked because lesser consequences were adequate in most situations.  It's probably been 8-10 years since I've spanked any of my kids (they're 13, 15, & 17 now).  I think if I tried spanking either of my boys now they'd turn the tables and I'd end up being the one getting spanked.  (they're both a lot bigger and stronger than me)

I do know that early on when they were really young there was more hand slapping on our part.  don't grab that, kid grabs again, don't grab that, kid grabs again, don't grab that, kid grabs again, smack hand, kid doesn't grab that again.

As for the situation you describe about choosing the spanking over doing extras.  Who said it was an either or?  I'd spank and give the extra's.