The Other Way - Training by Feeling and Racing to Train - OPEN (Page 3)

I wouldn't be specifically trying to cut leading into the race. Just keep building fitness. If you are swimming, biking, running, lifting, the weight will continue to come off. It's a natural process, don't try to rush it. You'll get there!

What does everyone here do for bike repair kit? Do you keep it in a saddle back under seat and what do you keep in it?

Hi all,

The days are getting longer which means that tri season is approaching. Even though here in Swtizerland we have gotten several snow storms the daily temperature is climbing and spring is definitely on the horizon.

Chris - The Athens tri looks really cool. My first tri this season is the Thurgauer Triathlon. It is a pool swim just as you described where you race the lanes changing to a new one each lap, Olympic distance. Funny enough it is an outdoor pool so you get to use a wetsuit. Thanks a lot for the method of attaching a picture. I will try it on this post. I also liked your advice on the google strap. Honestly I have never tried wearing them under my cap before.

Tyler- Someone suggested that we can look at each other's training logs so I looked at yours. Seems like you are putting in really good amounts of training. this last week. Let us know how the swim program is going. Having a plan always seems to help. I use a saddle bag that I can put a spare tube, a patch kit, a tire boot (great for cuts on the tire), small multi tool, tire irons, and a mini pump that can fit in the bag. I really dislike frame pumps but it is hard to find a mini pump that will fit inside and if you do get a flat be prepared to pump the tire a 1000 times to get 50 psi in it.

Shad- I think it was you who gave the training log advice. From this group I am already learning a lot. You also get my first inspire as I see that you are running a half marathon today! You are putting some serious distance in the swim that I saw on your log. Nice going. I really like your description of the area you run in. I find a lot of the reason that I exercise is to be outside and see the sights.

Le'Ann- Beinvenue to the group. That is great that you are going to do your first tri. When and which one is it? WIth your background I think that you will do well. I assume that you got a tri bike for the new bike. It took me awhile to get used to the aero bars. Still feels weird. The advice that I have given before is do some bricks. It is interesting to see your body react to doing two different sports. It was a shock to my legs to run after biking the first few times I tried it.

Dave- Hello and welcome. Seems like you will be the veteran of the group and am excited to have you as part of these discussions. The early season marathon is awesome. Last year I did one in Santiago, Chile (my father lives there) and it was basically off the couch. Like you though I had been racing awhile and it ended up just being plain fun. I got to see the city run a leisurely pace and it got my racing year started off in style. Are you I took a look at your race log and I see that you have done a few half Ironmans. Any thoughts to trying the full? Is this your first marathon? What is your goal for the race?

Neil (Clarky)- It is great to have you join the group. I sympathise with your swim struggles. The one thing that I realise about tris is that everyone of course has their weakness. It seems that being comfortable is the key. The TI plan I must admit I don't know anything about it but just being in the water a few times a week should really help. It is great that you are getting fit. We have two wonderful gifts our minds and our bodies and we need to take care of them both. My advice for you is just to keep on trucking. It has taken me three years to feel like I have finally gotten into triathlon shape. It is a sport that I think favours lots of mileage over a long period of time. That is great you are going to do such an early race. It is the best way to train. Like you I have had the same thoughts about cutting weight. It seems in the end though that just sticking to my training has yielded the results that I wanted.

Travis- Nothing like a flat tire to get in the way of training. I have never had one ion a race (knock on wood) but think it would just deflate me. From your training log look like you have had a really consistent week. Lots of riding and activity. You are going to start off the season with an Olympic tri? I saw it on your race log. Nothing like fighting mother nature on a ride. I like out west where you can see rain storms from so far away. Must be ominous when one is tracking you.

Myself- Lots of snow has kept me in the skiing mode. I did two days of skate skiing this week. Convinced this is the most intense exercise. Then rode on my training. Inspired by Chris I managed 1 hour 15 minutes. I might try and break 2 hours this week in friendly competition. The weekend has been spent ski touring both days. Good long up hill climbs and magnificent descents. Great deep powder yesterday and today. I am feeling fit. My first race is the Kerzerslauf on 15 March. It is a 15km run that is combo small roads and trail. Trying to attach photo. It's me skiing on the hill in my village, Leysin.

I hope everyone in the group is made the best of the week and is ready to charge on into the next one.

All the best,

Paul







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Wow - that picture is GREAT!

45-50 min swim today!
(closer to an hour, but a few minutes acclimating to the pool and some just loligagging around).

15 Min of TI excercises
30 Min of lengths
I tried to work on my stroke form and was counting strokes and time on each length.
(I did about 30 lengths total).
Max strokes ~ 24 at the beginning of the session - 45 sec lengths
Min strokes ~ 16 near the end of the session 35-38 sec lengths.

Thanks Paul! Welcome back!!! Today I started the two weeks or transition and will start the 13 week training plan on March 10. While I believe in training by feel, I'm still so new that I need the structure of a training plan. Swimming is easily my biggest challenge; I just lack endurance, but its getting better.
I had posted somewhere else about on the 13 week plan where it has us doing two workouts on Mondays: that's not supposed to be a "brick" workout is it? It just means two per day. I thought I might make it a brick workout about halfway through the 13 weeks, but not to start off. I'd welcome any thoughts you have on that.
Thanks so much!!!
Jennifer

Hey, RJ! I've seen on your posts here that you are looking for some help in swimming. That is easily my weakest area, too. I have some good swim workouts that a friend shared with me; I'm happy to share them with you if you want. There are about 5 different ones to choose from, focusing on both endurance and technique. Would you like me to message or email them to you or do you think I should put them in the group feed?
Good luck!!
Jennifer

If there are others in the group struggling with the swimming, here are some workouts I've been using to help build technique and endurance. Today I started the 2 week transition period before starting the 13 week training plan. I'll do a straight swim one day a week, and then one of these workouts on the other day. Paul and other swim folks: does that sound reasonable to you?

Workout #1:
*10x25m - swim (your choice on style):
6x25m - pull (arms only, style your choice)
4x25m - kick (legs only, with or without fins, style your choice)
* 3x50m - (Goal: Fast Breakout, Medium Middle, Fast Finish):
1st 50: Butterfly 25m, Backstroke 25m
2nd 50: Breaststroke 25m, Freestyle 25m
3rd 50: Choice 25m, Choice 25m
* 2x100m - Choice, rest 25 sec. between sets of 100
* 3x50m - Choice, rest 20 sec. between sets of 50
* 4x25m - Choice, rest 10 sec. between 25m laps
* 1x50m - Freestyle, medium effort, breath every 5th stroke
* 1x50m - Freestyle, medium effort, breath every 3rd stroke
* 1x50m - Freestyle, cool down effort, breathe only when you MUST

Workout #2:
*8x25m - swim (your choice on style)
*8x25m - pull (arms only, no buoy, style your choice)
*4x25m - kick (no fins, no board, style your choice)
*4x50m - Free/Back Drills > 4 strokes free, roll, 5 strokes back, roll, repeat
(don't spin, roll to the same side as the next arm stoke)
*4x50m - Kick/Swim drills (kick only for 25m, swim 25m on the return), style your choice
*2x100m - Swim first 100m at race pace, rest 1 minute, swim second 100m at race pace
*4x25m - Accelerating Pace:
1st 25m = easy
2nd 25m = Build Speed
3rd 25m = Fast Start, Pace, Fast Finish
4th 25m = sprint as fast as you can
*2x25m - Cool Down Effort, style your choice

Workout #3:
*2x200 - swim (style your choice):
1x200 - pull (arms only, style your choice)
1x200 - kick (with board, style your choice)
*9x50m - alternating sets:
1st 50m - pull down, kick back (no board)
2nd 50m - swim
3rd 50m - pull down, kick back (no board)
4th 50m - swim
5th 50m - back stroke down, breast stroke back
6th 50m - swim
7th 50m - back stroke down, breast stroke back
8th 50m - freestyle
9th 50m - breast stroke - cool down

Workout #4:
*1x250 - swim (style your choice)
*5x50 - mixed pull/kick sets:
1st 50m - pull with paddles and buoy
2nd 50m - pull with paddles only
3rd 50m - pull with buoy only
4th 50m - kick (use fins if you have them)
5th 50m - swim in 50 seconds
*2x150 - swim choice, rest for 45 seconds between
*2x100 - swim choice, rest for 30 seconds between
*2x75 - swim choice, rest for 25 seconds between
1x50 - swim choice, rest for 20 seconds after
2x25 - breast stroke, cool down

Workout #5:
1x200m - swim choice
1x200m - kick, no fins, but kickboard if wanted
1x200m - pull, no paddles or buoy
1x200m - IM drill:
25m - butterfly
25m - back stroke
25m - butterfly
25m - back stroke
50m - breast stroke
50m - free style
1x200m - Odd/Even Drill:
Odds - 25m Sprint
Evens - 25m Fingertip drag, 25m high elbows, 25m front/back rotation, 25m choose drill
4x50m - Interval Drill
Sprint each 50m with 45 seconds rest between sets
1x50m - breast stroke, cool down

Yes Paul, welcome back & awesome photo!!! Yes, Colorado is amazing & ever changing weather wise. Finished last week on a strong note. Feeling comfortable on the road bike & soon the mt bike is coming out to play. Hiked early w/the Boy Dog on Sunday & have noticed that the quads are coming around. Now, where is that cardiovascular system????

I am really looking forward to my day as I am doing some marketing & trail running on a new trail. I have been following a blog for about a year or so & that guy moved here in GJ,CO. He started a running group & they are meeting today for an "easy" 5 mile jog. I am more on pace for a 5 mile hike. Its a new trail, new people, & its going to be a beautiful experience. I will update you all in the next few days.

Jennifer, I think you are on the right track w/a break in between sports on Mondays for now. The brick is simply a great way for the legs to adjust from riding to running on race day. Listen to your body & your body will tell you when to start a brick. Maybe it will be sooner than the halfway point. For now, ride, eat, rehydrate, stretch, & then move onto the next event of training. In my model of the world, if you just don't feel like the second workout is needed, then stop & don't injure yourself. As you become stronger your body will push you to do both workouts & that feels awesome. What I am saying is this," Take your time, find the positive in your workouts, & be present."

My riding kit under my seat is as follows: 2 tubes, 1 patch kit, 1 lever, & a 10 dollar bill. After my flat I added a mailing address label. I have a pump that fits my top tube of my frame.

Happy Monday Folks





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Really nice looking swim workout plan. I might give it a try. I am the worst to give advice on swimming since it is by far my worst discipline. I am curious if the good swimmers out there train with a variety of strokes. I am ashamed to admit that I have never swum using butterfly or breast stroke. I think if I tried a backstroke I would go into the wall or the lane rope after a few strokes. Therefore I purely train freestyle.

I played two hours of basketball tonight. I worry sometimes that all of this forward only sport will make my body lose all of its side to side agility so trying to get a game of basketball or tennis (we have indoor courts) in each week feels good. Keep on training everyone. Race season is about to start!

I have to agree with Paul here on the swim training. I am only preparing to race triathlon and I only intend to swim freestyle in my races so that is the only stroke I train for. I suppose it could help with overall comfort levels in the water to know and practice all the strokes. I know some people switch to a breaststroke for a quick break and for sighting in open water, and the backstroke can be used to relax and catch one's breath when necessary.

Jennifer, you say you do a "straight swim" on your "other day". I assume this is just one set of 1000 yards or 1500 yards or whatever you are up to?
I'm not trying to be critical but all of the advice I have gotten over the past 2 years is that this is not the most beneficial way to train. I can understand doing it maybe once as a "confidence swim" (covering the distance of an upcoming race, say 1500m for an Olympic, just to give yourself the confidence that you can swim that distance.) Beyond doing it once to prove to yourself that you can handle it, however, you are probably better off doing "shorter" sets with more intensity and concentrating on form or breathing or whatever you feel you need to work on. When doing long swims I think the mind can sometimes wander and form can falter, or fatigue can set in and also hurt proper form. I would suggest instead of doing a 1500m long swim for instance, instead do a 4 X 400 or a 8 X 200 for example.

Today I was TIRED!!!!

30 min strength
-Back & Biceps - Tomorrow is my last 'heavy' strength day - shoulders. Then I will move to lighter more rep & dynamic moves, focusing on core
--PLEASE REMIND YOURSELF TO DO CORE !!! - That's for me, I often lag doing my core excercises

30 min run
4 min walk/ warmup
20 min run
5 min intermittent sprints

45 min Swim
-Mainly TI segments w\ some lengths mixed in.
But I primarily worked on form and breathing.

yep - Im tired now!!

Tomorrow is Shoulders and a long Bike. (long = relative! probably 12-13 miles)....

Chris, thank you so much! I don't see it as you being critical; this is why I joined this forum! To hear honest feedback!! And I'm very glad to hear what you had to say; it felt a little wasteful to simply swim my 10 minutes then get out. So, I think I'll just plan on continuing the workouts, building strength and endurance on my swim days. I may do a brick or two in the last half of the 13 weeks, but other than that, I have so many simple things to work on (breathing more efficiently, body roll, not drowning, etc), you know....the basics And I do enjoy the various strokes in those workouts. It is a way for me to keep moving, keep the heart rate up without having to take a break until I "really" need a break.
Thanks all!!

Shoulders
Snatch presses
Arnold presses
Cable flys

Then I Half assed my long bike!
I was planning on 12+ miles!
I have been feeling a little sick (lungs) the past couple days. So I inly got in 8 miles at a half hour!
Panning on core tonight

Ginger
Lemon
Garlic
Honey

Hot Or Cold

Reed, that sounds terrible hot or cold.
Jennifer, your doing pretty good at swimming if you can complete that workout. I think i would die trying it.
I am feeling good about my training with exception of swimming, Getting frustrated. I was just building on laps only on my workouts and saw slow progress, now I have been doing more structured plan with drills. I do feel like my form is improving but seem to be going backwards on endurance, Im struggling to get 100 yards with out stopping and even have to screw form and swim like mad for the wall the last 25.
I decided to day to stay and do a few extra laps at the end of my drills hoping to get endurance built, any ideas on building endurance faster or do I just need to keep at it and not drown?

Well, I'm only doing one of those workouts at a time Tyler. I would be spending 5 hours at a time in the pool trying to do them all! I hear ya on the endurance; it is sooooo slow in coming in the water!! I have found that workout number 2, and workout number 4 have both helped me on my endurance. Not a lot, but I did notice I was able to add about a lap per week without dying on the weeks when I had done one of those two workouts. Good luck!!!!

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medium length swim today - again working on form.

Sounds perfect for me. I love swimming and swim at least twice a week. Last year in June I did the 2.4 mile open water in the Charleston Harbor and had a great time. I just bought a bike and shoes. I have yet to "strap" myself into the bike. I did the Long Bay tri in November a year ago in SC. This was my first tri. I do not like running but walk/run the 5 K of the long bay to finish. I am 49 and just want to stay active and healthy. I would like to do open water events and a couple of sprint tri's a year to stay active.

Wayne.

nobody in here for a while.

I hit it Friday - Cardio and a short job
Saturday medium bike - half hour 9 miles - weights, chest and tris - then a medium swim about 45 min.

I was planning an indoor brick today!
I biked half hour on a spin bike - est about 9 miles - I was chugging and my quads were burning.
Then I ran! if you want to call it that. I was gassed after 10 min.
I struggled through 25 minutes and 2 mile run.
Then Weight - back and Bi
Then a short swim - about a half hour.

I was planning one more brick before the race, but given todays performance I will have at least 2 mixed into my schedule.

I have been sick w\ a lung and head cold, so I have been leaning n that for my lack of energy, but Im starting to get a little concerned

Long workout today - Im going to stew up some food and do core while it is cooking.

Thanks for the welcome Chris. I'm doing the Iron Girl on Aug 10 in Grimsby, Ontario. Starting my swim training on Sun for an 8-week program. Will then train in my backyard pool. Did a half marathon on Feb 23, and am building distance. If I can fit the Toronto Marathon, May 4, into the busy calendar I'll be doing that. My weekly program is:
Mon cross train (Elliptical) + mid-day weight training;
Tues evening run (hills or speed), mid-day pilates
Wed morning short easy run, mid-day yoga, evening bike;
Thur mid-day weight training and evening run,
Fri cross train or rest day,
Sat long slow run (the time on my 23k training run this Sat was better than last weekend's race
Sun rest.

My PBs by distance: 10km - 50:03, 21.1k - 1:47:30, 42.2 - 3:52:30. I want to improve my marathon time before turning 45 in Aug
The swim is my weekest sport. Hoping the swim coach can help me improve.

Does anyone have thoughts on hand paddles to assist in swim training?

Thanks
Le' Ann

First week of May my program above will change to have brick workouts on Tuesdays, track on Thursdays, ride on Fr, swim bike run on Sat, and I'll be finishing up the Sun am swim training.

I love my swim paddles. I just started using them this year. I knew they would add resistance and thus help build shoulder strength but I had no idea how much they would help form. They take a little getting used to but enjoy training with them. I am swimming 2X per week right now with the first workout being heavy on paddles and the 2nd just regular freestyle, no paddles.

Interesting thoughts on the paddles. I have question based on shear curiosity: Who here uses a swim cap at all? Either in the pool or on race day or both or neither. I bought one, because I thought I "should", but I HATED it. My head got so hot, I thought it would melt off my neck. I have short hair, so I'm just not worrying about it. For the swim portion on race day, I'm considering ear plugs, just to keep out the worst of the yucky water, but I'm just curious to see what other people think about caps. Thanks!

In most races that involve open water caps are provided and required to be worn. I think this is a safety thing where bright colored caps make you easier to see from the lifeguards perspective. Also wave starts usually go off by cap color. Meaning all of one age group will have the same color so they may call for "next wave Green caps" for example.

I don't wear one when training in the pool. On race day though, I do kind of like putting one on. I pull it down over my ears and the whole world just gets a little more silent. I start to swim and all you can hear is the rush of the water and your breathing, everything else seems far away. Psychologically, It puts me in race mode when I pull that cap down over my ears.