Supreme Court upholds Michigan’s ban on racial preferences in university admissions (Page 3)

Originally posted by switch

Thanks Tony.

I'm glad you went back to the original post.  I reqouted it here from the original to get rid of that massive quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blacks do not have socioeconomic parity with whites.

Here's a paper published in 2010 that addresses socioeconomic factors and black/white disparity.  Even if you don't have time to read the paper, take a look at the figures: http://nulwb.stage.iamempowered.com/sites/nulwb.iamempowered.com/fi... is a link from the American Psychological Association about race and its implications in socioeconomic factors:

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-erm.aspx

I know people are sometimes resistant to clicking links, so a few of the highlights:

• Discrimination and marginalization are sometimes barriers for ethnic and racial minorities seeking to escape poverty (Corcoran & Nichols-Casebolt, 2004).

• African American children are three times more likely to live in poverty than Caucasian children. American Indian/Alaska Native, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, and Native Hawaiian families are more likely than Caucasian and Asian families to live in poverty (Costello, Keeler, & Angold, 2001; National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• Although the income of Asian American families is often markedly above other minorities, these families also often have four to five family members working (Le, 2008).

• Minorities are more likely to receive high-cost mortgages: African Americans (53 percent) and Latinos (43 percent), in comparison to Caucasians (18 percent) (Logan,2008).

• Unemployment rates for African Americans are typically double those of Caucasian Americans. African American men working full time earn 72 percent of the average earnings of comparable Caucasian men and 85 percent of the earnings of Caucasian women (Rodgers, 2008).

Education

• Despite dramatic changes, large gaps remain when minority education attainment is compared to that of Caucasian Americans (American Council on Education, 2006).

• African Americans and Latinos are more likely to attend high-poverty schools than Asian Americans and Caucasians (National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• In 2005, the high school dropout rate of Latinos was highest, followed by those of African Americans and American Indians/Alaska Natives (National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• In addition to socioeconomic realities that may deprive students of valuable resources, high-achieving African American students may be exposed to less rigorous curriculums, attend schools with fewer resources, and have teachers who expect less of them academically than they expect of similarly situated Caucasian students (Azzam, 2008).

Physical Health

• Systemic prejudices against ethnic minorities in the United States create additional barriers in health care that exist regardless of class.

• In one study, one-fourth of American women of South Asian descent from affluent backgrounds did not have a Pap smear in over 3 years. Those from low socioeconomic status are even more at risk for not having this early detection test yearly (Chaudhry, Fink, Gelberg, & Brook, 2003).

• Socioeconomic status and race/ethnicity have been associated with avoidable procedures, avoidable hospitalizations, and untreated disease (Fiscella, Franks, Gold, & Clancy, 2008).

• Low birth weight, which is related to a number of negative child health outcomes, has been associated with lower SES and ethnic/minority status (Fiscella et al., 2008).

Psychological Health

• Socioeconomic deprivation and racial discrimination have been implicated higher psychological distress.

• Minority children in high-poverty areas are more likely to be exposed to alcohol and tobacco advertisements (Wallace, 1999) and drug distribution (Wallace, 1999); they are also more likely to use drugs and exhibit antisocial behaviors (Dubow, Edwards, & Ippolito, 1997).

• The odds of being diagnosed with schizophrenia were significantly higher for African Americans than Caucasians in lower poverty areas (Chow et al., 2003).

• African Americans are at higher risk for involuntary psychiatric commitment than any other racial group. African Americans and Latinos in low-poverty areas were more likely to be referred for commitment by a law enforcement official than any other racial group (Chow et al., 2003).

 

 

Originally posted by switch

Thanks Tony.

I'm glad you went back to the original post.  I reqouted it here from the original to get rid of that massive quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blacks do not have socioeconomic parity with whites.

Here's a paper published in 2010 that addresses socioeconomic factors and black/white disparity.  Even if you don't have time to read the paper, take a look at the figures: http://nulwb.stage.iamempowered.com/sites/nulwb.iamempowered.com/fi... is a link from the American Psychological Association about race and its implications in socioeconomic factors:

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-erm.aspx

I know people are sometimes resistant to clicking links, so a few of the highlights:

• Discrimination and marginalization are sometimes barriers for ethnic and racial minorities seeking to escape poverty (Corcoran & Nichols-Casebolt, 2004).

• African American children are three times more likely to live in poverty than Caucasian children. American Indian/Alaska Native, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, and Native Hawaiian families are more likely than Caucasian and Asian families to live in poverty (Costello, Keeler, & Angold, 2001; National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• Although the income of Asian American families is often markedly above other minorities, these families also often have four to five family members working (Le, 2008).

• Minorities are more likely to receive high-cost mortgages: African Americans (53 percent) and Latinos (43 percent), in comparison to Caucasians (18 percent) (Logan,2008).

• Unemployment rates for African Americans are typically double those of Caucasian Americans. African American men working full time earn 72 percent of the average earnings of comparable Caucasian men and 85 percent of the earnings of Caucasian women (Rodgers, 2008).

Education

• Despite dramatic changes, large gaps remain when minority education attainment is compared to that of Caucasian Americans (American Council on Education, 2006).

• African Americans and Latinos are more likely to attend high-poverty schools than Asian Americans and Caucasians (National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• In 2005, the high school dropout rate of Latinos was highest, followed by those of African Americans and American Indians/Alaska Natives (National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• In addition to socioeconomic realities that may deprive students of valuable resources, high-achieving African American students may be exposed to less rigorous curriculums, attend schools with fewer resources, and have teachers who expect less of them academically than they expect of similarly situated Caucasian students (Azzam, 2008).

Physical Health

• Systemic prejudices against ethnic minorities in the United States create additional barriers in health care that exist regardless of class.

• In one study, one-fourth of American women of South Asian descent from affluent backgrounds did not have a Pap smear in over 3 years. Those from low socioeconomic status are even more at risk for not having this early detection test yearly (Chaudhry, Fink, Gelberg, & Brook, 2003).

• Socioeconomic status and race/ethnicity have been associated with avoidable procedures, avoidable hospitalizations, and untreated disease (Fiscella, Franks, Gold, & Clancy, 2008).

• Low birth weight, which is related to a number of negative child health outcomes, has been associated with lower SES and ethnic/minority status (Fiscella et al., 2008).

Psychological Health

• Socioeconomic deprivation and racial discrimination have been implicated higher psychological distress.

• Minority children in high-poverty areas are more likely to be exposed to alcohol and tobacco advertisements (Wallace, 1999) and drug distribution (Wallace, 1999); they are also more likely to use drugs and exhibit antisocial behaviors (Dubow, Edwards, & Ippolito, 1997).

• The odds of being diagnosed with schizophrenia were significantly higher for African Americans than Caucasians in lower poverty areas (Chow et al., 2003).

• African Americans are at higher risk for involuntary psychiatric commitment than any other racial group. African Americans and Latinos in low-poverty areas were more likely to be referred for commitment by a law enforcement official than any other racial group (Chow et al., 2003).

 

 

Originally posted by switch

Thanks Tony.

I'm glad you went back to the original post.  I reqouted it here from the original to get rid of that massive quote  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blacks do not have socioeconomic parity with whites.

Here's a paper published in 2010 that addresses socioeconomic factors and black/white disparity.  Even if you don't have time to read the paper, take a look at the figures: http://nulwb.stage.iamempowered.com/sites/nulwb.iamempowered.com/fi... is a link from the American Psychological Association about race and its implications in socioeconomic factors:

http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/factsheet-erm.aspx

I know people are sometimes resistant to clicking links, so a few of the highlights:

• Discrimination and marginalization are sometimes barriers for ethnic and racial minorities seeking to escape poverty (Corcoran & Nichols-Casebolt, 2004).

• African American children are three times more likely to live in poverty than Caucasian children. American Indian/Alaska Native, Hispanic, Pacific Islander, and Native Hawaiian families are more likely than Caucasian and Asian families to live in poverty (Costello, Keeler, & Angold, 2001; National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• Although the income of Asian American families is often markedly above other minorities, these families also often have four to five family members working (Le, 2008).

• Minorities are more likely to receive high-cost mortgages: African Americans (53 percent) and Latinos (43 percent), in comparison to Caucasians (18 percent) (Logan,2008).

• Unemployment rates for African Americans are typically double those of Caucasian Americans. African American men working full time earn 72 percent of the average earnings of comparable Caucasian men and 85 percent of the earnings of Caucasian women (Rodgers, 2008).

Education

• Despite dramatic changes, large gaps remain when minority education attainment is compared to that of Caucasian Americans (American Council on Education, 2006).

• African Americans and Latinos are more likely to attend high-poverty schools than Asian Americans and Caucasians (National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• In 2005, the high school dropout rate of Latinos was highest, followed by those of African Americans and American Indians/Alaska Natives (National Center for Education Statistics, 2007).

• In addition to socioeconomic realities that may deprive students of valuable resources, high-achieving African American students may be exposed to less rigorous curriculums, attend schools with fewer resources, and have teachers who expect less of them academically than they expect of similarly situated Caucasian students (Azzam, 2008).

Physical Health

• Systemic prejudices against ethnic minorities in the United States create additional barriers in health care that exist regardless of class.

• In one study, one-fourth of American women of South Asian descent from affluent backgrounds did not have a Pap smear in over 3 years. Those from low socioeconomic status are even more at risk for not having this early detection test yearly (Chaudhry, Fink, Gelberg, & Brook, 2003).

• Socioeconomic status and race/ethnicity have been associated with avoidable procedures, avoidable hospitalizations, and untreated disease (Fiscella, Franks, Gold, & Clancy, 2008).

• Low birth weight, which is related to a number of negative child health outcomes, has been associated with lower SES and ethnic/minority status (Fiscella et al., 2008).

Psychological Health

• Socioeconomic deprivation and racial discrimination have been implicated higher psychological distress.

• Minority children in high-poverty areas are more likely to be exposed to alcohol and tobacco advertisements (Wallace, 1999) and drug distribution (Wallace, 1999); they are also more likely to use drugs and exhibit antisocial behaviors (Dubow, Edwards, & Ippolito, 1997).

• The odds of being diagnosed with schizophrenia were significantly higher for African Americans than Caucasians in lower poverty areas (Chow et al., 2003).

• African Americans are at higher risk for involuntary psychiatric commitment than any other racial group. African Americans and Latinos in low-poverty areas were more likely to be referred for commitment by a law enforcement official than any other racial group (Chow et al., 2003).

 

Originally posted by NXS The answer to all of the problems listed is education and that is the main problem. The parish I live in is majority black, poor (mean family income is 27,500) and rural. These are my neighbors and friends. What has happened over a period of time is that a culture has developed that does not value education. I know that is not everyone, but for a vast majority, education is not a priority. For example, my office manager, a 25 yr. old black girl, has been ostracized by her family and community because she has goals for education and doing better in life. She is considered a "sell out to her people" because of this and that her fiancée is white. It is so sad to see people turn their back on education, the only thing that will truly empower them, for what? A gov. check, housing, food stamps? The very programs designed to help people out of poverty has for the most part, destroyed their families, and culture and made them a dependent class. As I said earlier in this thread, if the gov. truly wants to help minorities instead of using them for a voting block, allow school choice. Let the people who value education send their children to schools where they will learn. Education is the only thing that will break the cycle of poverty

Originally posted by tuwood

Switch, there's no question that racism still exists and I think LB would agree with that.  However, to say that a poor white kid growing up in poverty is completely different than a poor black kid growing up in poverty simply due to his skin color is incorrect and disrespectful to the black kid in my opinion.  Kids get picked on and bullied for all kinds of reasons (race, ethnicity, religion, appearance, cleanliness, sexual orientation, you name it).  Racism was horrible 50 years ago because it was essentially sanctioned by the state and society.  It was OK to demean and destroy minorities, but that is no longer the case. It doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but it is not accepted anywhere in our society and that is the true victory over racism in America.
Any one of us in this thread would do anything we could if we witnessed a blatant example of racism, and the vast majority of people in our society would do the same.

We all have experienced racism in our lives to one extent or another, some of it is more overt and some of it is not.  I was called a white a## cracker by a homeless guy in downtown Omaha within the last month when I didn't give him any money.  OK, so what?  I felt sorry for the guy and moved on.

I just saw this article a few minutes ago that's a good example of societies tolerance of racism.
Ala. Dem Offers $100K for Proof of White Families Adopting Black Kids; Families Show Up

Society does not allow racism against blacks.  If a white senator repeatedly made prejudicial and racial statements towards black people he would be humiliated and likely be forced to resign.  It is not tolerated.
However, we as a society do not have the same feelings towards racism against whites, so it is accepted by our society and continues to happen on larger and larger platforms.  In a way societies view on racism against other ethnicities is probably 20 or 30 years behind our views on racism against blacks.

Don't misread what I'm saying to complain that whites are being persecuted for being white because I'm not.  I'm simply saying that the level that a society accepts and allows racism is the extent that racism exists.

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn Again Tony, and with all due respect, you sort of do this a lot, you're confusing racism or bigotry with discrimination. They're not interchangeable because they're not the same thing. There's no question that racism/bigotry exist in large measure among blacks as well as whites, and there are racists/bigots of every ehnicity. But there's a big difference between a person not liking me or judging me because of the color of my skin and denying me something that I have the legal right to (whether it's a job or a loan or an apartment) because of it. There's no question that I probably encounter black people every day who are racists. The difference, and it's an important distinction, is that most black people (that I know, at least) can give you not one, but several, and in some cases many examples of times they were discriminated against because of their race-- denied a table in a restaurant, hassled by a cop, etc. Most white people, including me, would be hard pressed to give even one example of a time where someone's prejudice against their ethnicity cost them something of value like the examples I gave before. I've never been discriminated against because of my race. Ever (ok, unless you count getting picked last for pickup basketball...). The only times I've ever been legitimately discriminated against, it's been because I was Jewish (and usually came at the hands of other white guys).

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Most white people, including me, would be hard pressed to give even one example of a time where someone's prejudice against their ethnicity cost them something of value like the examples I gave before. I've never been discriminated against because of my race. Ever (ok, unless you count getting picked last for pickup basketball...). The only times I've ever been legitimately discriminated against, it's been because I was Jewish (and usually came at the hands of other white guys).

Originally posted by Left Brain

On the way home from a track meet tonight, my son and I had a pretty cool conversation regarding one of the teams at his meet from an all black high school.  My kid says, "those guys are badass in the relays, and they were really proud of their school but in a cool way, they had a lot more school spirit than we do at my school". 

Originally posted by Goosedog So I signed my now 8yo up for track through the county program. It's very, very different than his swim and soccer programs. They are, as you could only imagine, very country club and very focused on developing young athletes long term (this is awesome, of course). Track is different. These coaches really adore the kids, but they will bless a child out. I love this. Just this week, the boy told me how much he loved track because the coaches were so "hard on us." Here's the 7/8 4x100 team celebrating after taking down the win.

Originally posted by Left Brain

Although.....it does appear your kid is bullying the others.   

Originally posted by Goosedog Wait, how do you know who my kid is?

Originally posted by Left Brain
Because he looks the same without underwear on his head. 

Originally posted by Goosedog Busted.

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn



Again Tony, and with all due respect, you sort of do this a lot, you're confusing racism or bigotry with discrimination. They're not interchangeable because they're not the same thing. There's no question that racism/bigotry exist in large measure among blacks as well as whites, and there are racists/bigots of every ehnicity. But there's a big difference between a person not liking me or judging me because of the color of my skin and denying me something that I have the legal right to (whether it's a job or a loan or an apartment) because of it. There's no question that I probably encounter black people every day who are racists. The difference, and it's an important distinction, is that most black people (that I know, at least) can give you not one, but several, and in some cases many examples of times they were discriminated against because of their race-- denied a table in a restaurant, hassled by a cop, etc. Most white people, including me, would be hard pressed to give even one example of a time where someone's prejudice against their ethnicity cost them something of value like the examples I gave before. I've never been discriminated against because of my race. Ever (ok, unless you count getting picked last for pickup basketball...). The only times I've ever been legitimately discriminated against, it's been because I was Jewish (and usually came at the hands of other white guys).

Originally posted by NXS



On a personal note, your post made me laugh. Back in the mid 90's I went back to school to work on another degree in a major northeast city. My family and I had never been treated that way, ever. Because we talked slow with a southern drawl it was assumed we were just stupid bumpkins. My kids in lower elementary school were called rednecks, hicks, little crackers, etc. For me there were certain professors that assumed that I would do poorly. What topped it off was how many times when meeting people they would ask why we hate blacks so much down south. It was just crazy.