ACA and You can keep your health insurance (Page 3)

What I'm saying is that a job should pay what the position is worth.  If you choose to take a job that pays a non-livable wage, (even if you have to take it to pay the bills), is not a valid reason to think that it should pay more.

And, NOT ALL JOBS should be considered a career.  I.e. should not pay a livable wage.  Working at Mc D should not pay enough to live off of.  Maybe Ihop, but that would be stretching it.  Olive Garden maybe.  

Unfortunately most people who do not understand this theory, also don't have jobs that pay a livable wage.

Maybe if you can't find a job in your field that pays a livable wage, you may have chosen the wrong field.  If there are no jobs, you may have chosen the wrong field.  

So you think that all the people who work at McDonalds, or pick crops, or clean houses shouldn't be paid a livable wage? So what are they supposed to do? 

Just be homeless or not eat?  They should die because they "picked the wrong field" (as if they have a choice)

Not everyone can be a lawyer or a mechanic or an engineer.  We need people that serve our food, pick up garbage, and do a litany of other tasks that you probably think "don't deserve a living wage"

"as if they have a choice"  /rollseyes

Where the heck do you live?  Are all the people you know dumb lemmings that have no choices in life other than whoever decides to hand something to them?

Ok, you have no education, you're 18 years old, and you need a job.  Please tell me about the wonderful choices to get jobs with a living wage? 

Its a numbers question.  There are only X number of jobs that pay a living wage.  There are Y number of people who need a job.  Y is greater than X.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLVFqri-bf4

Why be a douche.  I never said they should DIE.  I never said be homeless.  All I said was that the job is not worth a livable wage.  They will have to work 2 or three crappy jobs to live.    Also I didn't mention picking crops.  That is actually hard manual labor.  Cleaning houses is harder work than Mc D.  

Try not making crap up when you characterize what people say...

Maybe it is you that only hears what you want to hear...

Watch the namecalling.  

It is called a "livable wage" for a reason.  If you can't live on it......... you're going to be homeless, or unable to afford food, or unable to afford healthcare, and yes, people do die because of this.  So when you say that their job isn't worth a livable wage, you are saying that they aren't valuable enough to deserve to live.

some people don't have the skills, and will never get the skills to work a job that YOU think is worth it.  Someone has to do those jobs.  Also, you say picking crops is a livable job, why do they get paid pennies from this.  I guarantee you that YOU would not be able to make ends meet picking crops.

Anyone in this country that works a full time job, should be able to make ends meet. This is how we should base the minimum wage. End of story. It would solve the majority of our poverty and homelessness problems. Instead, companies like McDonalds make BILLIONS of dollars on the backs of employees who they abuse and take advantage of.

And you blame the employees for "not getting a better job." Shame on you.

For the record, I fully support entitlements for people who need them.  I just get frustrated when people abuse the system.

I am a business owner and I do get to set salaries for the people I hire.  It's really no different for me than it is for you choosing who is going to fix your plumbing or put in a new countertop in the kitchen.  It's a matter of shopping around to look for qualified people and then you hire the person who is best suited to get the job done at a reasonable price.  It's not always the cheapest person, but often it is.

Now, if you're opening a business selling widgets and you have to hire a staff of 5-10 people to operate, you do exactly the same thing you do at home.  You put out a job application and see who applies for the job and ask them how much they require to come work for you.  You can absolutely set your salary at $20/hr. for cashiers to give them a livable wage as a business owner, but obviously you need to ensure that your business plan can sustain the costs.  The other part that's a challenge is when you have lets just say 50 people apply for your 10 open positions and half of them who are qualified say they'll work for $10/hr.  At that point you have a decision to make to pay them double what they're willing to work for at your businesses expense.  
I have absolutely no problem with anyone doing this and think that it's awesome when people do.  The risky part comes when you do pay your employees a livable wage, but all of your competition does not.  You're selling widgets for significantly more than all of your competition, so if you don't have any differentiation between them, you will have a much harder time succeeding in business.
Sure, the government can come in and mandate everyone pay $20/hr. to "level the playing field" but if you look at the economics of it there's no advantage to that because it simply bumps up the baseline for everyone (costs and pay) so in a few years $20/hr. is no different than $10/hr. is today and the saga continues.  The only way $20/hr. is a livable wage is if the minimum wage stays at $8 (or whatever it is).

I do get a chuckle about you calling business owners a leech for hiring somebody at the rate they're willing to come work.  That's the equivalent of me calling you a leech for paying the marked price for something at the store or paying the plumber the rate he asked for.  The only difference is when you're spending your money it's ok, but when you're talking about my money (the business owner) it's different.

So what does livable wage mean to you?  In NE where I live the minimum wage is $7.25/hr ($1160/mo).  When I look at craigslist for apartments I see a ton of apartments in the $300-$400/mo. range and several even have paid utilities.  Bus pass costs about $70/mo.
According to the USDA a thrifty food plan costs about $160/mo. for a single person to eat 3 squares a day.
With the ACA (and I believe prior to it) a person in this income range is fully eligible for Medicaid so they get free healthcare.

So, to "live" with food, shelter, medical, and transportation in Omaha, NE it costs as little as $630/mo which is well under the income generated by a true minimum wage job.

Obviously this isn't living high on the hog, but it most certainly is living.  The problem I see is that people who demand a living wage don't really want a living wage, they want a lifestyle wage that enables them to live a bigger lifestyle.  I saw a picture plastered all over facebook a few years back of McD's protesters carrying their $600 iPhones and wearing designer clothes with $150 sneakers on.  None of those things are required to "live" they're luxury items.

Why not just raise the minimum wage for people who work for companies/corporations who have a gross profit of XXX dollars?  I'm sure someone can come up with a number......how hard can this crap possibly be?  A start up business should not be required to pay a minimum wage that is the same as a billion dollar company.  Every company can have a different minimum....and people making minimum wage can aspire to get jobs in companies that make more money. (and thus pay a higher wage)

I know, I know......it's much more complicated than that. /sarc

Well I'd like to point out that you didn't account for clothing, utilities, that food plan sounds pretty optimistic.  But fine, lets say that you can swing that in Omaha Nebraska.  Well i live in DC.  300-400 a month gets you a cardboard box outside of an apartment building.  

What if you have a child, 2 children? A sick mother to take care of?

A family cannot live on that income, no matter where you live.

it isn't even that the business owner is a leech.  He is just making as much money as possible, and if he can pay people 2 bucks an hour to do it he will.  Thats why we need a higher minimum wage, and social programs to take care of people.  Capitalism doesn't ask the business owner to take care of people, just wring out as much profit as possible.

also, capitalism isn't good for the individual unless you're at the very top of the heap. shocker, i know.

i could dig a variable min. wage for minors

Shame on you for thinking that those people can't survive without the help of everyone else.  Glad you have such high expectations for them.  

I said they may have to work multiple jobs.  Also, I didn't say that piking crops is a livable wage.  READ WHAT PEOPLE SAY.  I said it is hard work, a lot harder than Mc D.

And no, just because you work full time does not mean you deserve anything.  You earn what you deserve.  Wether that be respect or a livable wage.  Sorry that you are to closed off in your fantasy world to understand that.  Respect is earned not given.  END OF STORY as you would say.  

I'm done posting on this.  Have fun...

I still am trying to reconcile why I as a business owner should have to be the "social status" police and pay people a more than they're willing to work for.
One real example I'm thinking of is I had a friend of mine who wanted to earn some extra money.  He asked me if he could clean my office and said he'd do it for $50/week.  Based on the hours he worked, he was likely making $8 an hour, but I felt as though I was doing him a favor and he was very happy to make the extra money.  win/win type of situation.  I wasn't even looking for a person, he came to me and sold me on it.
I just can't see how the conversation would have gone or where I have some social responsibility to say.  No, you can't do it for $50, I will only do it if you let me pay you $100/week.  That's just weird.

I think the minimum wage or livable wage (new marketing) argument is kind of silly because it's just like the ACA.  It makes people feel better, but it doesn't fix anything.  Raise the minimum wage to $15, $20, $30, or even $50 an hour and I guarantee you that we'll be arguing the same thing in 5 years about how the poor can't get ahead.  It's not their minimum wage that's the problem and will never be.

For sure, and I've done the same for various reasons over the years.  I remember I hired a guy years ago who only wanted $50k for a salary.  I knew how good he was and I knew that he could leave and get a lot more money, so I offered him $70k.  It wasn't a social justice thing, it was a retention thing because it knew he'd likely leave within a year if I didn't.

cool story bro?

This isn't just about their value to YOU. It is about their value as human beings.

Also, maybe if we paid that college student a living wage she wouldn't have to graduate with $50,000 in loans at 14% interest.