Election 2016 (Page 3)

On that note, have you noticed the "inciting violence" argument being waged against Bernie of late.  Not so much that he's inciting the violence, but that he's not doing enough to stop it.
I thought it was interesting, but I also think it has a potential to be very divisive towards Bernie's supporters come general election time.

OK, which party is in chaos?

https://www.facebook.com/VivaBernie2016/videos/1615259272126896/

Should be an easy win for Hillary then, right. 

I wouldn't so much as say the Democratic party collapsing, but they have some challenges they have to get over.

One thing we can both agree on though is that the election is a long way off and anything can happen.    

Except that he's said that he disagrees with her on many, many issues.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders--i-disagree-with-hillary-clinton-on-many--many-issues-562082371662

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn  Even Sanders and Clinton have said repeatedly that, despite their strong differences of opinion on a few issues, they remain in agreement on the vast majority of issues, and that either of them would be a far better choice for America than Trump. OTOH, you have conservatives and Republican leadership openly saying that they are unsure that they can support the presumptive GOP nominee and even that it would be better for America if Hillary Clinton won the election. I can't think of anyone on the Dem side saying that Trump would be a better choice than either Clinton or Sanders.

Except that he's said that he disagrees with her on many, many issues.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders--i-disagree-with-hillary-clinton-on-many--many-issues-562082371662

Yeah, but still... He's not specific, really, about what any of those issues are in the clip. If you look at their positions, they basically agree on most things but Sanders' position is left of hers. The only exception is guns, where he's right of her.

A lot of Sanders' appeal is on Trump type topics.  He's anti-corruption and doesn't like the trade agreements.  I saw a video over the weekend where Sanders sound almost like Trump bashing Hillary for various trade agreements and how they've hurt the American workers. 

Bernie is tapping into the populist movement while Hillary is hanging onto the status quo.

Saw this graphic on a conservative site and thought it was interesting.  As I mentioned earlier all the polls are currently trending towards Trump (yes its still early).
Trumps corny adjectives he uses against other candidates are pretty dumb, but its amazing how effective they can be from a political standpoint.  Now, it's not as thought that's the only thing causing his surge in support, but it's part of it.

Hillary appears to be struggling with how to respond to Trump so far.  She plays by the old political playbook using the worn out "woman card" and trump responds with a tweet "How can Crooked Hillary say she cares about women when she is silent on radical Islam, which horribly oppresses women?"  ouch

On a little less controversial topic I went to a business leadership conference recently and one of the speakers talked about effective marketing by tapping into emotions.  He used the example of presidential campaign slogans and asked people in the room if they knew what Obamas campaign slogan was in 2008.  Pretty much everyone (including myself) knew the answer.  Then he asked what was McCains slogan?  What was Romney's slogan?  Pretty much nobody knew (including myself) on either one.

He then talked about the current election with the various candidates and asked what Carsons slogan was, Cruz (he changed it multiple times), Bush, Hillary, Bernie, and then of course Trump.  Everyone knows Trumps "Make America Great Again" slogan and because its catchy and strikes an emotional chord and very few people knew anyone elses.

It was an interesting topic and I hadn't given it much thought in the past.  I just saw an article mentioning Hillary was exploring another change on hers so thought I'd mention it. 

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn  Even Sanders and Clinton have said repeatedly that, despite their strong differences of opinion on a few issues, they remain in agreement on the vast majority of issues, and that either of them would be a far better choice for America than Trump. OTOH, you have conservatives and Republican leadership openly saying that they are unsure that they can support the presumptive GOP nominee and even that it would be better for America if Hillary Clinton won the election. I can't think of anyone on the Dem side saying that Trump would be a better choice than either Clinton or Sanders.

Except that he's said that he disagrees with her on many, many issues.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders--i-disagree-with-hillary-clinton-on-many--many-issues-562082371662

Yeah, but still... He's not specific, really, about what any of those issues are in the clip. If you look at their positions, they basically agree on most things but Sanders' position is left of hers. The only exception is guns, where he's right of her.

A lot of Sanders' appeal is on Trump type topics.  He's anti-corruption and doesn't like the trade agreements.  I saw a video over the weekend where Sanders sound almost like Trump bashing Hillary for various trade agreements and how they've hurt the American workers. 

Bernie is tapping into the populist movement while Hillary is hanging onto the status quo.

The difference is, Bernie hasn't made millions of dollars off the very trade agreements that he now bashes, as Trump has. That gives him a little more credibility. (And by "a little more" I mean, "any credibility whatsoever".) The most interesting thing about this campaign, to me, and it's true of your next post as well, is how to run against a politician whose supporters have made it very clear that they aren't remotely interested in the truth? When you have a politician who literally lies every time he opens his mouth, about everything, and the people who are voting for him have said, as you have, unequivocally, in effect, "It doesn't matter to me one bit whether Trump tells the truth or not-- the important thing is that he says what I want to hear" , how do you run against that? It's more than a little alarming to me that so many people just shrug their shoulders at it, but I guess that's where we are politically now. Bernie's tapping into that on the left as well. His supporters only hear what they want, and it doesn't seem to matter at all whether it's objectively true or not. It doesn't matter that he has no clear path to victory-- he hasn't for months, people still believe that the tide is turning and he's going to be the nominee. It doesn't matter that not much of his plan is actually feasible or that his ongoing shtick about breaking up the banks is pie-in-the-sky nonsense. It doesn't matter that he's not a Democrat but that it hasn't stopped him from crying foul about the rules of the party he chose to join after being an independent for years. When I listen to him and some of his ardent followers complain that the game is rigged, I can't help but laugh. He's like a rugby player demanding to be allowed onto the soccer field and then complaining that the game isn't fair because he can't use his hands.

I guess he should strive to be more truthful like Hillary.  lol

Have you ever noticed how you rail on and on about Trump lies Trump lies Trump lies, but never once do you ever notice Hillary lying.  It's as if you don't care at all what she says and only hear what you want to hear.

I had almost forgotten about the green party.  Good ole Ralph Nader.

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn  Even Sanders and Clinton have said repeatedly that, despite their strong differences of opinion on a few issues, they remain in agreement on the vast majority of issues, and that either of them would be a far better choice for America than Trump. OTOH, you have conservatives and Republican leadership openly saying that they are unsure that they can support the presumptive GOP nominee and even that it would be better for America if Hillary Clinton won the election. I can't think of anyone on the Dem side saying that Trump would be a better choice than either Clinton or Sanders.

Except that he's said that he disagrees with her on many, many issues.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders--i-disagree-with-hillary-clinton-on-many--many-issues-562082371662

Yeah, but still... He's not specific, really, about what any of those issues are in the clip. If you look at their positions, they basically agree on most things but Sanders' position is left of hers. The only exception is guns, where he's right of her.

A lot of Sanders' appeal is on Trump type topics.  He's anti-corruption and doesn't like the trade agreements.  I saw a video over the weekend where Sanders sound almost like Trump bashing Hillary for various trade agreements and how they've hurt the American workers. 

Bernie is tapping into the populist movement while Hillary is hanging onto the status quo.

The difference is, Bernie hasn't made millions of dollars off the very trade agreements that he now bashes, as Trump has. That gives him a little more credibility. (And by "a little more" I mean, "any credibility whatsoever".) The most interesting thing about this campaign, to me, and it's true of your next post as well, is how to run against a politician whose supporters have made it very clear that they aren't remotely interested in the truth? When you have a politician who literally lies every time he opens his mouth, about everything, and the people who are voting for him have said, as you have, unequivocally, in effect, "It doesn't matter to me one bit whether Trump tells the truth or not-- the important thing is that he says what I want to hear" , how do you run against that? It's more than a little alarming to me that so many people just shrug their shoulders at it, but I guess that's where we are politically now. Bernie's tapping into that on the left as well. His supporters only hear what they want, and it doesn't seem to matter at all whether it's objectively true or not. It doesn't matter that he has no clear path to victory-- he hasn't for months, people still believe that the tide is turning and he's going to be the nominee. It doesn't matter that not much of his plan is actually feasible or that his ongoing shtick about breaking up the banks is pie-in-the-sky nonsense. It doesn't matter that he's not a Democrat but that it hasn't stopped him from crying foul about the rules of the party he chose to join after being an independent for years. When I listen to him and some of his ardent followers complain that the game is rigged, I can't help but laugh. He's like a rugby player demanding to be allowed onto the soccer field and then complaining that the game isn't fair because he can't use his hands.

I guess he should strive to be more truthful like Hillary.  lol

Have you ever noticed how you rail on and on about Trump lies Trump lies Trump lies, but never once do you ever notice Hillary lying.  It's as if you don't care at all what she says and only hear what you want to hear.

Wait....OMG.... is that Tony using a false equivalence...? Whoa! (Falls down...) I've said many times that I don't like Hillary and part of it is that because I don't fully trust her. But Trump says stuff all the time that is out and out false (which has been corroborated over and over again by both the right and left-wing media), and you have said repeatedly that you don't care, or that you conveniently change your definition of what the "truth" is to suit him.

What lies are you referring to and where specifically did I say I don't care about them?  Just because you speak of something as fact doesn't make it a fact.

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn  Even Sanders and Clinton have said repeatedly that, despite their strong differences of opinion on a few issues, they remain in agreement on the vast majority of issues, and that either of them would be a far better choice for America than Trump. OTOH, you have conservatives and Republican leadership openly saying that they are unsure that they can support the presumptive GOP nominee and even that it would be better for America if Hillary Clinton won the election. I can't think of anyone on the Dem side saying that Trump would be a better choice than either Clinton or Sanders.

Except that he's said that he disagrees with her on many, many issues.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders--i-disagree-with-hillary-clinton-on-many--many-issues-562082371662

Yeah, but still... He's not specific, really, about what any of those issues are in the clip. If you look at their positions, they basically agree on most things but Sanders' position is left of hers. The only exception is guns, where he's right of her.

A lot of Sanders' appeal is on Trump type topics.  He's anti-corruption and doesn't like the trade agreements.  I saw a video over the weekend where Sanders sound almost like Trump bashing Hillary for various trade agreements and how they've hurt the American workers. 

Bernie is tapping into the populist movement while Hillary is hanging onto the status quo.

The difference is, Bernie hasn't made millions of dollars off the very trade agreements that he now bashes, as Trump has. That gives him a little more credibility. (And by "a little more" I mean, "any credibility whatsoever".) The most interesting thing about this campaign, to me, and it's true of your next post as well, is how to run against a politician whose supporters have made it very clear that they aren't remotely interested in the truth? When you have a politician who literally lies every time he opens his mouth, about everything, and the people who are voting for him have said, as you have, unequivocally, in effect, "It doesn't matter to me one bit whether Trump tells the truth or not-- the important thing is that he says what I want to hear" , how do you run against that? It's more than a little alarming to me that so many people just shrug their shoulders at it, but I guess that's where we are politically now. Bernie's tapping into that on the left as well. His supporters only hear what they want, and it doesn't seem to matter at all whether it's objectively true or not. It doesn't matter that he has no clear path to victory-- he hasn't for months, people still believe that the tide is turning and he's going to be the nominee. It doesn't matter that not much of his plan is actually feasible or that his ongoing shtick about breaking up the banks is pie-in-the-sky nonsense. It doesn't matter that he's not a Democrat but that it hasn't stopped him from crying foul about the rules of the party he chose to join after being an independent for years. When I listen to him and some of his ardent followers complain that the game is rigged, I can't help but laugh. He's like a rugby player demanding to be allowed onto the soccer field and then complaining that the game isn't fair because he can't use his hands.

I guess he should strive to be more truthful like Hillary.  lol

Have you ever noticed how you rail on and on about Trump lies Trump lies Trump lies, but never once do you ever notice Hillary lying.  It's as if you don't care at all what she says and only hear what you want to hear.

Wait....OMG.... is that Tony using a false equivalence...? Whoa! (Falls down...) I've said many times that I don't like Hillary and part of it is that because I don't fully trust her. But Trump says stuff all the time that is out and out false (which has been corroborated over and over again by both the right and left-wing media), and you have said repeatedly that you don't care, or that you conveniently change your definition of what the "truth" is to suit him.

What lies are you referring to and where specifically did I say I don't care about them?  Just because you speak of something as fact doesn't make it a fact.

That's an easy one. Ladies, and gentlemen, I give you Politifact's 2015 "Lie of the Year": https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/21/donald... “I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down,” he said. “And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering.” You'll recall that your reaction to it was, "I agree there's no evidence to support the thousands and thousands, so at most he exaggerated the number". Yeah, like from next to nobody to "thousands and thousands" of people. That's not an exaggeration-- that's a straight up lie. There is no evidence-- none-- that there was widespread celebration in Jersey City. Not from any public official nor from any news media. It's a lie, Tony. There's no other word for it. And a particularly disgusting one, because it was specifically intended to make Americans hate other Americans because of their religion. There is no other way of looking at it. He didn't claim people were celebrating 9/11 in Yemen or Pakistan. He said they were doing it in Jersey City. What do you think it's like for a Muslim family in NJ to hear that? A presidential candidate falsely claiming that they were celebrating the deaths of their fellow Americans? And because it was about Muslims in NJ, and not people like you, you don't care, because you don't think that stuff like this matters--it's all just a little exaggeration, but it matters.

wow, you had to go way back for that one.  lol

You're so funny.  You say stuff like this matters, yet what you really mean is stuff like this matters only if the person has a different political ideology than you approve of. 

It's a fact that many were celebrating the towers coming down.  There were published police reports and I believe some 911 calls that back up his story.  If you recall there was the hubub of the news article (think it was the times) that even documented it where the reporter tried walking it back 15 years later because it supported Trump.  Nobody knows the numbers of people celebrating and Trump said thousands which is quite likely an exaggeration.  It doesn't change the fact that people in our country were celebrating a terrorist attack which was the premise of Trumps statement.

How about Hillary lying about ISIS showing videos of Donald Trump in order to recruit more Jihadists?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Every piece of legislation Hillary introduced in the Sentate had a Republican co-sponsor?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
We now have more jobs in solar than we do in oil?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
You are three times more likely to be able to get a mortgage if you're white than if you're black or hispanic, even with same credentials?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Bernie has never had a single negative ad run against him?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Hillary landed under sniper fire in bosnia, Lie, but it doesn't matter 
In Jan 2013 Hillary lied under oath about never seeing requests for additional security in Libya, yet they were ultimately shown to have her signature.  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Was named after Sir Edmund Hillary?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Was dead broke when she left the white house?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
All of her grandparents were immigrants you know?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
She was instrumental in the Northern Ireland peace process you know?  Lie, but it doesn't matter

Should I go on?  You absolutely come off the rails when Trump states something in fact but with a different number yet you gleefully ignore lie after lie after lie from Hillary.  So, apparently these things "only matter" if the person doesn't agree with your opinion.

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by tuwood

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn

Originally posted by msteiner

Originally posted by jmk-brooklyn  Even Sanders and Clinton have said repeatedly that, despite their strong differences of opinion on a few issues, they remain in agreement on the vast majority of issues, and that either of them would be a far better choice for America than Trump. OTOH, you have conservatives and Republican leadership openly saying that they are unsure that they can support the presumptive GOP nominee and even that it would be better for America if Hillary Clinton won the election. I can't think of anyone on the Dem side saying that Trump would be a better choice than either Clinton or Sanders.

Except that he's said that he disagrees with her on many, many issues.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/bernie-sanders--i-disagree-with-hillary-clinton-on-many--many-issues-562082371662

Yeah, but still... He's not specific, really, about what any of those issues are in the clip. If you look at their positions, they basically agree on most things but Sanders' position is left of hers. The only exception is guns, where he's right of her.

A lot of Sanders' appeal is on Trump type topics.  He's anti-corruption and doesn't like the trade agreements.  I saw a video over the weekend where Sanders sound almost like Trump bashing Hillary for various trade agreements and how they've hurt the American workers. 

Bernie is tapping into the populist movement while Hillary is hanging onto the status quo.

The difference is, Bernie hasn't made millions of dollars off the very trade agreements that he now bashes, as Trump has. That gives him a little more credibility. (And by "a little more" I mean, "any credibility whatsoever".) The most interesting thing about this campaign, to me, and it's true of your next post as well, is how to run against a politician whose supporters have made it very clear that they aren't remotely interested in the truth? When you have a politician who literally lies every time he opens his mouth, about everything, and the people who are voting for him have said, as you have, unequivocally, in effect, "It doesn't matter to me one bit whether Trump tells the truth or not-- the important thing is that he says what I want to hear" , how do you run against that? It's more than a little alarming to me that so many people just shrug their shoulders at it, but I guess that's where we are politically now. Bernie's tapping into that on the left as well. His supporters only hear what they want, and it doesn't seem to matter at all whether it's objectively true or not. It doesn't matter that he has no clear path to victory-- he hasn't for months, people still believe that the tide is turning and he's going to be the nominee. It doesn't matter that not much of his plan is actually feasible or that his ongoing shtick about breaking up the banks is pie-in-the-sky nonsense. It doesn't matter that he's not a Democrat but that it hasn't stopped him from crying foul about the rules of the party he chose to join after being an independent for years. When I listen to him and some of his ardent followers complain that the game is rigged, I can't help but laugh. He's like a rugby player demanding to be allowed onto the soccer field and then complaining that the game isn't fair because he can't use his hands.

I guess he should strive to be more truthful like Hillary.  lol

Have you ever noticed how you rail on and on about Trump lies Trump lies Trump lies, but never once do you ever notice Hillary lying.  It's as if you don't care at all what she says and only hear what you want to hear.

Wait....OMG.... is that Tony using a false equivalence...? Whoa! (Falls down...) I've said many times that I don't like Hillary and part of it is that because I don't fully trust her. But Trump says stuff all the time that is out and out false (which has been corroborated over and over again by both the right and left-wing media), and you have said repeatedly that you don't care, or that you conveniently change your definition of what the "truth" is to suit him.

What lies are you referring to and where specifically did I say I don't care about them?  Just because you speak of something as fact doesn't make it a fact.

That's an easy one. Ladies, and gentlemen, I give you Politifact's 2015 "Lie of the Year": https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/21/donald... “I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down,” he said. “And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down. Thousands of people were cheering.” You'll recall that your reaction to it was, "I agree there's no evidence to support the thousands and thousands, so at most he exaggerated the number". Yeah, like from next to nobody to "thousands and thousands" of people. That's not an exaggeration-- that's a straight up lie. There is no evidence-- none-- that there was widespread celebration in Jersey City. Not from any public official nor from any news media. It's a lie, Tony. There's no other word for it. And a particularly disgusting one, because it was specifically intended to make Americans hate other Americans because of their religion. There is no other way of looking at it. He didn't claim people were celebrating 9/11 in Yemen or Pakistan. He said they were doing it in Jersey City. What do you think it's like for a Muslim family in NJ to hear that? A presidential candidate falsely claiming that they were celebrating the deaths of their fellow Americans? And because it was about Muslims in NJ, and not people like you, you don't care, because you don't think that stuff like this matters--it's all just a little exaggeration, but it matters.

wow, you had to go way back for that one.  lol

You're so funny.  You say stuff like this matters, yet what you really mean is stuff like this matters only if the person has a different political ideology than you approve of. 

It's a fact that many were celebrating the towers coming down.  There were published police reports and I believe some 911 calls that back up his story.  If you recall there was the hubub of the news article (think it was the times) that even documented it where the reporter tried walking it back 15 years later because it supported Trump.  Nobody knows the numbers of people celebrating and Trump said thousands which is quite likely an exaggeration.  It doesn't change the fact that people in our country were celebrating a terrorist attack which was the premise of Trumps statement.

How about Hillary lying about ISIS showing videos of Donald Trump in order to recruit more Jihadists?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Every piece of legislation Hillary introduced in the Sentate had a Republican co-sponsor?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
We now have more jobs in solar than we do in oil?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
You are three times more likely to be able to get a mortgage if you're white than if you're black or hispanic, even with same credentials?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Bernie has never had a single negative ad run against him?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Hillary landed under sniper fire in bosnia, Lie, but it doesn't matter 
In Jan 2013 Hillary lied under oath about never seeing requests for additional security in Libya, yet they were ultimately shown to have her signature.  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Was named after Sir Edmund Hillary?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
Was dead broke when she left the white house?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
All of her grandparents were immigrants you know?  Lie, but it doesn't matter
She was instrumental in the Northern Ireland peace process you know?  Lie, but it doesn't matter

Should I go on?  You absolutely come off the rails when Trump states something in fact but with a different number yet you gleefully ignore lie after lie after lie from Hillary.  So, apparently these things "only matter" if the person doesn't agree with your opinion.

Advantage Tony, side out JMK.

Like I said earlier, you really don't understand Trump and his support.

You see "stirring up hatred and violence" while you stick your head in the sand and ignore the reality in the world you live in.  If you and those you support can't even call an islamic radical terrorist an "Islamic radical" then we have already lost.  It's not stirring hatred against Islamic radicals it's speaking the truth and identifying the real problem.

Evil is evil and it needs to be dealt with and the American public trusts Trump more than they trust Hillary on the war on terror.