Gearwhore/himself Group - FULL (Page 3)

Fred -

Your first instincts are correct.  You should get the bars up so that you're not too "folded up" in the aero position.  I had some problems with my hips early on when I first go my aero bike and tried to ride aero all the time.  That angle between your torso and your thigh can cause a little hip impingement and pain until you get used to it, and even after that if you're position is too aggressive.

So, what to do?  You have a few choices to get that done: (1) assuming the stearer tube (top of the fork that comes through the headtube and headset) is not cut short, you can move the stem up; (2) you can get a new stem with a shorter reach, steeper angle, or both; (3) you can stack spacers under the armpads; and (4) you can tilt the aero bar upwards a bit, which doesn't actually raise the bars, but raises your hands and keeps your upper body more upright.  I think some combination of these would be good for you, at least initially.

Aside from the actual bike set up, I would recommend sitting up in the saddle a lot at first.  When you're on the trainer, this is no problem at all.  Just sit up, put your hands on top of the bars or armpads, and ride the bike like a normal road bike.  This decreases that hip angle, prevents the impingment, and makes for a comfortable ride.  On the trainer, that is no problem, and since you already have one, you're set.  Be careful with this on the road though, because on a true time trial (TT) bike, the brakes are on the ends of the basebar and the shifters are on the ends of the aero bars.  When you ride on the road, you need to have your hands close to the brakes most of the time, so again, your instinct is correct to learn this on the trainer first.  When you do take it out on the road, try switching back and forth between full aero, and a position where you have your hands all the way out to the ends of the basebar right next to the brakes.  Either position is pretty safe, allows you to stop quickly, and gives you some relief from the aero position.

Now, how do we get to a more comfortable place for racing?  You need to be able to stay in the aero position for 90-95% of 15 miles (your chosen race distance this year), or about an hour to an hour and a half.  Much like anything else with triathlon, this is just a matter of making progressive improvements, little by little.  Given current fitness and experience, I would say that might mean initially getting on the bike for 15-20 minutes on the trainer, and spending 5 minutes warming up, 1 minute aero, 3 minutes sitting up, and alternating like that until you've reached 20 minutes, do a nice light cool down and get off the bike.  Gradually increase total ride time, time in aero position, speed, intensity, etc., until you're comfortable going about 30 miles total (or the peak of your training program), with a big chunk of that in the aero position.  That project may well take you 6 months or more, even right up until the race in September.  Just give it time, this is a whole new sport, and riding a TT bike is a sport unto itself.

For the clipless pedals, shifters, brakes, etc. - again, practice on the trainer.  Spend 3-5 minutes at the beginning or end of each session clipping in and out of the pedals.  At first, look at what you're doing so that your brain and feet make the connection.  Once you feel okay with that, start practicing clipping and unclipping without looking.  It's really important that you get totally comfortable clipping/unclipping without looking, as you will be required to perform that function repeatedly on the road, while braking, watching traffic, keeping your head and eyes up, maybe negotiating around other cyclists, and maintaining control over the bike.  So, figure this out before you take the bike out for a lot of rides.  And when you take it out for the first time, start in a parking lot with not too much traffic so that you can get the hang of it all.

One last note, then I'll stop rambling.  TT bikes handle a little differently than road bikes.  Your weight is forward on the bike (intentionally), and this makes a TT bike feel "squirrelly" and hard to control at first.  It's a good idea, if you have the time and inclination, to go ride in open and uncongested areas to get used to that feeling.  Stear sitting up, shift and brake sitting up, carve some tight turns, hold a straight line (try to find lane lines or whatever to practice this), and then repeat all in the aero position.  It doesn't take too much time and it'll make the bike more fun and easier to ride later.

All for now, happy training.

Okay group, here goes, the dreaded lactate threashold test.  I stole this from TH3_FRB's group (and edited a bit), but he stole some of it from Mike Ricci, and at this point this is all pretty much common knowledge anyway.  So, this is the test to determine heart rate training zones, and will make your heart rate based pacing much more accurate and reliable.  Brian is definitely ready for this (probably should have already done it), AJ is itching to get this done, Fred I think has a heart rate monitor but may need some more time on the bike before attempting this test, Keith I think still needs a Heart Rate Monitor (HRM), HKDan is still persona non grata.  THIS IS HARD, it HURTS, and I'm not saying you should do it if you're not ready.  But if you feel capable, this is the best way to get training intensity figured out.  Okay, here goes:

Heart Rate Training:

Heart rate monitors are a relatively inexpensive tool that can be used to help guide our training. The old saying "no pain, no gain" is only partially true. Sure, there are times when you need to push yourself into that discomfort zone, but the majority of triathletes and endurance athletes should be spending a significant amount of their training developing a solid aerobic base rather than logging copious tempo runs and interval sessions at the track. Yes, these workouts have a time and place but they also have a relatively high cost in terms of recovery. They are best used sparingly during the build and peak phases of training (and only much later on, very near race season).

As triathletes, we collectively have a problem of being too motivated to push our limits. Chances are even an "easy" run is typically at too high of an intensity to serve the intended purpose (developing base or recovery) unless we have something to guide us. Enter the heart rate monitor... there is no cheating when that display strapped to your wrist is telling you exactly how hard you are really pushing.

One of the most confusing things about using a heart rate monitor during training is how to establish heart rate training zones. Google "heart rate training" and you'll find a lot of different opinions about how to set up training zones. A number of formulas have been developed to estimate training zones based around maximum heart rate...Age-Adjusted Method, Karvonen Formula, Leger Formula, MAF Method...but these formulas are estimates at best and can be 20, 30, even 40 beats off for a given individual. A much more precise method for establishing training zones is to base the zones around the lactate threshold, sometimes called anaerobic threshold (AT). Lactate threshold is the highest intensity at which your body can recycle lactic acid as quickly as it is being produced. As endurance athletes knowing our LT is extremely important for both training and racing. A well-trained athlete can sustain LT intensity for 60-75min before overloading their body. Lab testing of LT is the most accurate method for establishing zones but many athletes either can’t afford this type of clinical testing or don’t have access to facilities with the necessary equipment. Luckily, there are ways to estimate your LT by performing field tests that require nothing more than a heart rate monitor. Many coaches have found that the field test method produces results that are very consistent with lab testing and have concluded that field tests are a perfectly acceptable alternative (and a few of my friends have done field and lab tests with almost identical results).

Testing Protocol:

Set up your bike and trainer.  Put water bottle(s) on the bike and place a large fan directly in front of you.  Make sure to warm up well for 10 to 15 minutes before starting out. The field test is going to be an individual time trial of 30 minutes, so the total time for the test including warm up and cool down is approximately 45-50 minutes.  The effort should be very hard, but not so hard that you slow down at the end, so some pacing is required.  It's best to do this on a trainer your first time in order to control for hills and avoid changes in effort that could be associated with external factors such as traffic.  Again, the goal is to go as hard as you can sustain for the entire 30 minutes without slowing, but you should finish with nothing left in the tank.

After warming up, start the time trial and make sure to press the start button on the heart rate monitor (to record time and heart rate).  After the first 10 minutes of the test, press the lap button.  After the last 20 minutes of the test, press the lap or stop button.  Cool down 5 to 10 minutes very easy.  Use your heart rate monitor to determine your average heart rate over the 20 minute test period/lap.  That average heart rate number is your estimated lactate threshold.

This same protocol applies to the run as well, where you can test on a treadmill, at a track, or in an organized 5K/10K.  However, in our group, Brian is the only one ready to test run LT, the rest of us need to wait until much later in the spring (for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to avoid injury).  While it is important to test both the bike and run (because you will have different LT values for each), as a general rule of thumb, your bike LT will be 5-7 bpm lower than your run LT.  So, from the bike LT we can get a good estimate of run LT, and then perform the actual test later.    

These tests are very intense, so easy training for a couple of days before and after is a good idea.  You want to be relatively fresh and well rested so you can give it your best effort.  Once you have estimated your LT heart rate for both bike and run we can establish appropriate HR training zones for each.  In fact, BT now has a tool for you to plug in your LT value and it calculates your training zones automatically.

Training Zone Descriptions (from Mike Ricci, D3Multisport)

Zone 1 – This is considered aerobic and a very easy effort. So easy, that you feel guilty.
When to use Zone 1: Endurance training for beginners and recovery days.

Zone 2 – This is an easy effort but not quite as easy as Zone 1. This may be twenty-five beats lower then LT.
When to use Zone 2: Long rides and runs.

Zone 3 – In this training zone you are neither LT, nor aerobic. This zone should be used for longer training sessions only, such as ½ Ironman and Ironman training.
When to use Zone 3: You may use this during Ironman training sessions or you may creep into this zone at the end of long rides or runs (usually due to a phenomenon known as "heart rate drift" - not because you picked up the pace).  Some people consider training in this zone to be a waste of time, and only use it for specific race readiness for half ironman distance racing.

Zone 4–5a - This training zone is called LT, or lactate threshold. This is where you are pushing HR right up against that LT estimate.
When to use Zone 4-5a: These are the workouts that are our ‘hard’ session during the week. The Master’s swim workout, tempo runs, or the "hammer session" group ride – these are all LT workouts. Studies have shown that training at, or below, LT creates the greatest benefit as it allows the body to recover quicker then if we train above LT.  However, too much training in this zone will QUICKLY lead to overtraining and burnout.

Zone 5b - This zone is still LT but it is above LT and it hurts like heck! It could mean five to ten beats above LT. Most athletes will do very little training in this zone.  An example would be shorter track intervals with long recoveries.  Too much training here RAPIDLY leads to over training according to Joe Friel, author of the Training Bible.  When to use Zone 5b: Not often, but if you do, this would be at the end of a long hard set.

Zone 5c -  In this zone you are going all out for a very short period of time. According to Friel, this zone, in general, has limited benefit for the multisport athlete. The exception is those who are lacking the capacity to develop muscle mass or recruit fast twitch muscle fibers.
When to use Zone 5c: Seldom, but if you do, they are short fast explosions. The recovery time between these intervals may be long, and a few days will be needed after one of these sessions to help the body recover.  In short, just don't train at this pace.  I don't think anyone in this group needs to spend any time in Zone 5c.  We're either too new to the sport, or focusing on longer distance races where this type of training has extremely limited value.

Good luck with this test everyone, and try to enjoy the suffering (especially knowing that MANY people on BT regularly go through the pain of the LT test).

Good call.  If you decide to do both, just take it easy and recover well on Wednesday and Thursday. 

The upper end polars have speed sensors for use on the bike and an optional cadence sensor as well.  You can find some pretty good deals on the S520 and 620 right now.  If you really want to go nuts (like me, hence the nickname Gearwhore), get the Garmin 305 GPS with HR, pace/distance displays, and speed/cadence sensors for the bike.  Now THAT is a training tool for the training dork!

Yep, Brian said it right, there's no replacement for time in the saddle.  I know I normally have a suggestion for drills, or practice, or whatever, but in the case of getting used to riding a bike again, there's nothing better than just riding.  Have fun with it.

I have mixed feelings on the TI school of swimming (having browsed the book, not read it thoroughly, take this with a grain of salt).  I understand the desire to be more efficient in the water, and I don't disagree with the basic technique aspects, but I do feel that there is a bit of an over-emphasis, and perhaps a false promise, in the idea that you can get a lot faster without getting significantly stronger and fitter. 

Or to say it a different way, I think there's a point at which technique is no longer the limiter, and strength, fitness and endurance need to be the focuse.  I think if you can already swim about 1:40 per 100 meters, then TI methods probably won't make you a lot faster, and in fact the main limiting factor is probably muscle strength and muscular endurance (assuming techique is basically sound). 

If you're slower than that, chances are that technique is an issue, and should be addressed before working on specific aspects of swimming fitness.  For those of us who were coached as kids and feel comfortable with our stroke technique, I am not typically in favor of radical changes unless there is something really weird about the stroke that may cause shoulder injuries.

I also somewhat disagree with the swim golf thing where everyone is constantly focusing on stroke count.  I can get from one end of the pool to the other with 12 strokes, but so what, I'm gliding half the time.  When I increase my turn over rate with the same strong pull but less glide, I go 15-17 strokes/length, and about 15 seconds faster.  So I think there is a point of diminishing returns, and you need to experiment to find that point.  Personally, I don't think 21 is all that high, but you should try pulling harder with more glide to see if you can maintain the same speed with fewer rotations.

Generally, anything that improves technique is good, just don't get caught up in the promise that you can swim effortlessly and save all your strength for the bike and run, it simply isn't true.

Now here's a discussion I can get on board with . . .

I have situational favorites, and really, who can chose just one.  Coors Light (yeah, I like macro-brews, so what) at any sporting event, Guinness in the winter and at the local pub with my wife for dinner, Sunshine Wheat in the summer sitting outside,  Imperial in Costa Rica sitting on the beach (coolest beer label on earth, IMO), Pacifico with Mexican food, basically any local brew where I'm travelling, and maybe most importantly, free beer anytime and anywhere. 

Not to interrupt the beer thread, which is of critical importance, but I have two quick thoughts:

(1) HKDan is not really participating.  I sent him a PM on the side, and he hasn't responded.  He could always jump back in later, and that would be fine, but I'm thinking of reopening the group to add one more participant.  I think we could all benefit from a full group of active BT'ers.  Any thoughts/objections?

(2) I asked my buddy Ryan (himself) to post on the group thread and basically just be part of the group.  He and I train together a lot, he's a training dork like me, he has an excellent coach and has some good ideas/suggestions from that, we basically have opposite strengths (he's a better runner, I'm a better swimmer), and his season focus is a little different than mine with pretty much exclusively long course races (3-4 half iron races this year).  Anyway, he always has good suggestions and thoughts, so he would be an asset for everyone here, me included.  Cool?  If not, tough sh!t (I kid, I kid).  Hopefully he'll post to the thread today, and he can start throwing out some suggestions for training (and maybe even answer the most recent question about TI swimming).

All for now, as you were.

Like Adam had mentioned, he and I train together pretty regularly and are always bouncing different thoughts and ideas off of one another, whether it's something to do with our training, what we've read, or what we've seen as working (or not) in someone else's training (from pros to others on BT). So with that in mind he asked me to join and contribute where I can, so long as that's alright with everyone else. I figured I might as well do the background thing too so here goes:

Name: himself / Ryan

Story: I'm 30 years old (31 in a month) and have always been active growing up, playing the three main sports of baseball, basketball, football, and then messing around with others like soccer, tennis, etc. I played volleyball for 2.5 years in high school, took a break for about 8 years and then played for another 3 years until I was having a lot of problems with my knees and back so I decided to give it up. That was about the same time that I started thinking about doing a triathlon and ended up doing a sprint in the summer of 2005. I could have done one before then, but basically had to learn how to swim and started from barely being able to go 25 yards and working on building up from there. After that race my only thoughts were about how I could do better next time and I kept training since then. I like the balance of the sports, enjoy the training, and being able to keep seeing improvement along the way.

Family Status: Single with no kids, but do have two dogs - Whiskey (5-year old Chesapeake Bay Retriever) and Tacoma (4-year old English Shepherd).

Current Training: This is my second year of being coached and I'm coached by AJ Johnson of D3 Multisport. My focus for this year is the 70.3/HIM distance races and all my training is geared towards that. Because swimming is my weakest discipline, I did a swim block in November and am still focusing on that, but have moved through a cycling block and am starting a running block.

Last Year's Races: 7 cycling time trials, 5 aquathons (swim/run), 3 sprints, 1 olympic, 1 half ironman. I qualified for US Age Group Nationals but didn't go to race because I was working through a running related injury.

This Year's Races: 5 aquathons throughout the summer, Napa Valley Half Ironman - 5/5; Galena Sprint (IL) - 5/19; 5430 Sprint - 6/17; Vineman 70.3 - 7/22; 5430 Long Course (HIM) - 8/12. My goal for the season is to qualify for the 70.3 Championships, which I'd have to do at the Vineman 70.3., thereby making it my A race for the season. If I don't qualify, I'd consider another late season race or a marathon.

Weight Loss/Nutrition: I don't have a problem with weight loss, but will readily admit that on a separate yet related topic, nutrition is a definite shortcoming that I'm working on. I'm just lucky enough that I can eat whatever I want and burn through it without any recourse. That said, the twinkie and bacon diet isn't the best fuel for triathlons (who knew?) so I'm continuously working on improving that and upgrading my food choices. It's a definite work in progress, but getting better.

Favorite Beer: Really, how could this get left out? I'm about as far from a beer snob as possible and pretty much prefer the macro-brews of Coors Light and Bud Light.

I think most everything Adam said there is right on, but I'll add my perspective. When I was starting swimming, all signs form this site pointed to the TI method so that's essentially what I used and most likely would still use if it weren't for some additional input. I was getting to the point that I was so caught up in the glide that it was at the expense of the speed of my turnover. Watching me swim at one of the aquathons, a comment stating as much was made and (knowing I want to be faster in the water) basically said that if I want to be faster, then I need to swim faster; basically meaning increase my turnover rate and practice that by doing 4x25 yards at the end of your swim set as fast as you can, but with sufficient rest in between each 25. However, doing that to increase the turnover rate doesn't do anything if you're still struggling in the water, in which case drills and efficiency are key. In that regard, the drills that TI offers are very effective in establishing body balance, how to roll/rotate, etc.

TI comes across as mainly for lap swimmers in a controlled, pool environment that allows you to glide more easily. However, the start of an open water triathlon is anything but a calm and controlled environment. You're swimming with people on all sides of you and have to contend with waves/chop, current, wind, and a host of other factors. So if you're trying to calmly glide on every stroke, you may end up putting out more effort because the current or chop isn't allowing you to do so. In this case TI loses ground in favor of a higher turnover that is probably more effective and efficient so you can keep pulling forward.

At the end of the day, it's what's comfortable and where you are as a swimmer that should determine what technique to use. If I were to do it over again, I'd probably do it the same way: Learn the drills and technique from TI, then adapt to a higher turnover.

Regarding swim golf, it's not only about having the lowest stroke count, but whatever stroke count plus time gives you the lowest score. There's currently a discussion about this in the main forum, and one of the posters linked to Rich Strauss's site where he discusses it in pretty good detail:

http://www.cruciblefitness.com/etips/swimtechnique1.htm

There are plenty of other good links and articles on that site that are worth looking at as well.

ETA: Here's another swim related article from Mike Ricci's site. As it pertains to swim golf, pay attention to point #4 at the bottom of the article where he specifically mentions low versus higher stroke count. Lots of other good articles here too.

http://www.d3multisport.com/articles/swimvolume.html

Alright, Glen Close, you're in.  We'd prefer you look and act a lot more like Sharon Stone (in the crazy broad category), but we'll take Glen Close in a pinch.

Go ahead and post a bio so that we have the full back story on you and triathlon, and what beer(s) you most enjoy.  And I would suggest politely excusing yourself from the other group so that they can add someone else if they want to.  Maybe even send a PM on the side to the mentor explaining your reasoning.

As far as HKDan, in case he reads this, we're not giving him the boot.  We're just adding another active member.  HKDan can jump back in if he wants, especially now that we effectively have 2 mentors.  Speaking of which, I'm going to edit the group name to Gearwhore/himself Group.

Everybody add jamesG to your friends list, and each other if you haven't already.