kaqphin (Super Cat's) Mentor group - CLOSED (Page 3)

Since most of us are swimming and it's a stregth's of Cat's I vote we start with swimming.   How many of us have been plagued with shoulder pain from our time in the water and how can we avoid it?

I will chime in with my experience with swimming.  I have not had any shoulder pain or injuries due to swimming.  2007 was my first season and I had only swam in a pool as a kid.  So I hopped in the water and attempted to swim.  I could only make it 25 yards (1 length) before I felt like I was dying.  After reading these boards, I figured out it was absolutely due to the way I was breathing.  I was holding my breath underwater.  Then, when I tried to take a breath, I was blowing out and breathing in above water.  Also, (based off of advice given on this site), I bought a really nice pair of googles and ear plugs.  The ear plugs improved my swim 100%, it kept me from getting dizzy and it also allows me to focus.  I am not sure why, but it does.

So, over the next few months, and yes, it did take months, I worked on breathing out underwater.  I first started with blowing out my nose and I did improve.  I was able to go 400 yards without stopping.  Then, I moved to breathing out my mouth underwater.  For some reason, this improved my swim time drastically.  I breath on every 2 (I haven't learned bi-lateral breathing yet) and I keep it like I breath when I run or bike.  As I made this change, I can now swim as long as I want to without stopping.  Now, my pace is 2:45/100 yards, but I can swim all day long.  Hopefully in 2008, I can improve that swim time.  There are no master's swim programs in my area and the swim coaches at the Y are for the little kids.  So, I am hoping that with time, I can improve.

I was on a swim team from age 6-12 so I've been programmed for the swim, but I didn't really get back into to until this past year (13 years later!).  Started just swimming with my arms as a way to be active while my knee recovered so now I can swim all day with just my arms no problem, but adding kicking definitely gets me tired after a workout. I also notice that I loose my swimming endurance REALLY QUICKLY.  If I don't go to the pool for a few days the next time I go is just kills me!!!  I'm working on the bilateral breathing but breathing every 3 strokes gets me out of breath after a lap or two where as if I breath every two strokes I feel great.

I started getting some shoulder pain in my right shoulder and after reading this site I noticed I was putting my hand in thumb first at the top of my stroke so now I'm trying to be pretty conscious of not doing that and making sure I don't cross the midline which is helping. Also trying to focus on using more of my back muscles to pull through the stroke rather than just my shoulder. I'm trying out different stretches since I think it's more related to sitting at my computer for most of the day with a mouse in my right hand. I really need to work on my desk posture!!

Ooh!  what drills are those?  I like the names of them!! 

Now, I've just started getting back into swimming, BUT I have been doing a lot of strength exercise, to include shoulder presses, upright rows, bi's and tri's...the shoulder presses and upright rows I think were INSTRUMENTAL in keeping my muscles that I'm not using running (or biking, but just getting into that too) in the shape they needed to be.  From the few swims I've had, I have been hardly sore, depsite the huge respite from when I swam last.  In general, a muscular strength endurance routine that works those muscles you use in SBR not only will tone you and increase what your muscles can do, it is phenomenal for your overall health and will greatly balance your workouts.  I don't lift every day of the week, typically (don't look at my Nov/Dec, it's been a weird time these two months just getting back to the "real" world) just 2-3 times, but it has made such a difference.  Additionally, it is extremely healthy for your bones--and for the ladies, it truly helps increase bone density and prevent osteoporosis (sp?).

Just my two cents...BACK TO THE HOUSE CLEANING...AHHHH

Its also really important to strength train to keep you muscles balanced, injuries can be caused by stronger muscles over compensating for weaker ones.

Just also remember resistance training will decrease your muscle flexibility if you do not also stretch, so do that too!!!

Women in particular tend to be a lot weaker in their upper body and as Britt has said its really really important to continue resistance work for both lower and upper body. Stick to compoud exercies and functional exercises where possible. Plus id you are strength training do NOT forget your ab work!  (If anyone needs some evil ab routines let me know - I havent done much recently but I have some killer ones that the hot personal trainer gave me!)

Make sure you pick drills that work on the areas you most need help with...and incorporate them as part of EVERY swim workout but.. dont forget to swim too!

Thats how your body learns to put the drill practice into your swimming style...

That is an absolutely fabulous improvement!!!

FWIW I prefer to breathe on one side too, I can bilateral breathe because in and open water situation its very useful so you can breathe on whichever side of your body has the least turbulence but some of the best swimmers Ive ever met... seriously FAST competitive swimmiers actually breathe mostly on one side.

So... unilateral breathing is not a restrictor in going fast unless it makes your stroke unbalanced.

The best way to figure this out is drills that isolate single arms (one armed, catch up) and also the side kickdrill (which will assist you with learning to breathe on the side you dont like!)

The breathing issue of not breathing out underwater is very common so its fabulous you figured it out by yourself. I actually breathe out through my nose when turning my head to avoid that icky 'water up the nose' thing... not pleasant!

Once Ive responded to the posts I will post something up about constructing a swim workout and sets... for speed you might want to spend some time within your workout (not the entire workout) doing some shorter repeats with rest to get your body accustomed to what going fast feels like in the water!

Shoulder Pain is simply put caused by one of three issues:

1) Overuse: going from no swimming to 17K in one week is a little stupid (yes this is something I did and my shoulder got niggly). But as with any sport you need to slowly build up how far you swim each workout and how many workouts you do in a week... if you do not have a swim background then be conservative to start with, maybe try 3 times a week for around 1000m/yards (if you can swim, less if you are starting from scratch) and do that for 4 weeks.

2) Poor form: This is harder to figure out as everyone is different but the common problems are over extending in the recovery (a common issue if you read the TI book as this encourages long arm extensions which is great but do not over extend), crossing the middle line with the recover, or as mentioned earlier in the post stroke timing where you are not timing your breathing, phase or body roll in a smooth and balanced way. To put it simply you are doing something awkwardly and its stressing your shoulder!

The good news... this is what drills are for!

3) Too many pull drills: Paddles can cause shoulder issues, if you have sore shoulders and swim with paddles stop! Also using a pull buoy or band while it has some major benefits can be overly taxing on the shoulder so if you are having problems stop doing pull sets for awhile.

I just realised Im using a lot of 'swimming' terms so... if anything here does not make sense to you just ask! there are NO silly questions ok?

And while Im on it... mistakes are GOOD too! As long as you learn from them!

lyssa-gator - 2007-12-14 3:36 AM i don't have much experience swimming, and like i said before, i'm not swimming right now, because i'm too big of a baby in cold icy water, anyway, i started out just jumping in, i literally made it three strokes, that was the end, then a friend told me to get goggles. i got goggles AND a nose plug, and that made all the difference. i only do OWS, so the goggles, and being able to see was huge. now my biggest problem is breathing, i can do it, i just can't do it well, or for long periods. i breathe every third stroke, since i heard that that's the best way, especially OWS, but i get OUT of breath, so that i feel like i'm panting, underwater. i don't know how to explain it better than that, i think i just need more practice, which unfotunately i'm not getting right now. thus ends my limited experience.

Hi Lyssa,

Ive beent thinking about this and Ive gone through whats left of my notes when high school when I used to help with a Learn to Swim class.

Have you got a kick board? I know you arent swimming right now but one of the key things you can do when it is warm enough to get back in the water is use a kickboard to help you break the stroke down and learn breathing rhythm and patterns which will help a lot.

One other thing I thought of is how you breathe..., as soon as you turn your head nad take the breath you need to then start breathing out again all the way through the stroke until you breathe again. You may be breathing out still when you go to take another breath which will leave yuo with that breathlessness feeling and is not at all related to swim fitness.

Cat

Another small thing to think about when it comes to shoulder pain, especially if you feel it mostly on one side, is whether that arm is the one you take the most strokes with. My right shoulder was getting a little sore and I realized it's the shoulder I take my first and last strokes with on each length (since I usually swim an odd number of strokes per length). So my right shoulder gets a lot more use. The last few times I've been at the pool, I've tried very hard to alternate (use right heading up and left heading back from first stroke) and that has actually really helped (now, granted, I am swimming a pretty long distance - 1650 yards). In fact this last time I didn't think about it (now that I do think about it) because I was concentrating on body balance, and my shoulder was more sore than it had been at the end.

I just got the Total Immersion DVD (Freestyle: Made Easy) today and have another DVD coming any day now (Go Swim Freestyle with Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen). I'm hoping to gather the best out of both of these and it definitely helps me (since I'm totally a visual learner) to see strokes and drills performed. I'm psyched to add some drills to my laps because I definitely need to improve my form (I lived in the pool during the summers as a kid, but never had much formal instruction). Since I'm hauling a lot of extra weight up and down the pool right now, better form will definitely help out and hopefully as I lose more and more weight the speed will come naturally, both from the improved form and the lesser amount of drag.

And Lyssa, are you doing any dry land swim drills? There were a few on the TI DVD (not sure if they are in the book since I haven't read that far). I also just did a quick search and found this page with some links to a number of resources. It might be good for you to work on until the lake warms up: Dryland Workouts for Swimmers.

Oh Kelley just reminded me of something, if you ever have the opportunity to get someone to look at your stroke do it!

Tis could be a coach, in a masters swim group or even just a friend who swims. It is much easier to spot what is going wrong when looking at someone swim than to do it yourself...

Also there is more than one swim style so if you try something and it doesnt seem to work for you that is not the end of hope. For example at school I learnt to swim with an s-curve which is a way of moving your arm through the water in the catch. As i got back into swimming as an adult I modified my stroke based on some advice to a straight arm pull which is more taxing on the shoulders nad arms but has also seen me develop to be more efficient in the water with a more effective catch.

I know some good swimmers yuo use the s-curve in their stroke... its just turned out not to be the best for me!

Ok I know we have some great swimmers in this group that will be able to elaborate on this but I thought one thing we should look at in regards to swimming is how to construct a great swim workout for training....

Just swimming is great sometimes, especially if you are short on time, but there are other things you should be considering to make the time pass faster and improve your swim.

For me my basic swim routine looks like this:

Warm up: 1000-2000m

Efficiency Work: 6 x 50m counting strokes (sometimes I ditch this)

Drills: Whatever I need to work on at least 3 x 100m but if you have a lot of drill work to do and are new to swimming this may take up more of your time

Swim Sets: For Speed, endurance etc.... this may be speed repeats 10 x 100, 10 x 50 on X seconds rest, or a ladder set (ie 100, 200, 300, 400, 300, 200 ,100) or just a descending ladder (from 400 down) at varying speeds.

Or occasionally I might throw in a long swim instead or if i want a short working just throw in some 50 repeats.

Cool Down: 200-500m swum at an easy pace

Now this is not the definitive way of putting a workout together and the distances that I swim might not work for you... for example if you are swimming 1000m in total obviously you might do something more like:

Warm Up: 500m

Drills: 4 x 100m

Cool Down: 200m

There are also a HUGE number of workouts available on BT as training suggestions but I thought it might help to share what I do.

I also sometimes have a swim and just go for a distance taking breaks only to grab some water... just to see how Im going and how my endurance is.. and I find this type of swimming very soothing and relaxing so dont discount it once you are in race prep - just swimming the distance for confidence is a great way to allay any swim fears you may have pre race.

I hope this helps - please share your workouts and routines because training can get boring without variation so its nice to have some ideas from others!

Cat

ok, here's a question.  So my current training plan will call for swimming 1000m in 45 minutes for example.  however I finish 1000m in more like 25-30 minutes.  Should I

a) slow down and fill the time with the distance
b) swim the distance at a reasonable pace that finishes before the time (what I tend to do now)
c) swim the distance and keep going to fill the time
d) you're obsessing to much and just enjoy the work out

Well swim programmes are normally written for distance so I would say dont stress and just do the distance...

What plan are you following? One from BT or from a coach?

If its something you have found online and you feel you would benefit from a longer session WITHOUT compromising your other training/life then it is possible you are a stronger swimming than the plan is written for and you may benefit from maybe a 1500m swim instead...

Let me know the details and I will see what I can do to help out!