Ernesto's group - CLOSED (Page 30)

Great job Carol, Jen, and Gabe!

Barry, glad you got your open water panic attack out of the way.  That happened to me when I very first learned to scuba dive.  Living in FL for several years broke me of fearing water.

Chris, you're being way too hard on yourself.  BTW, thanks for the compliment.  Most people do think I'm in my 40s, including the hostess at Chili's yesterday.  I'm trying to keep up the facade for as long as possible.

Ernesto, so glad to hear that the swim was longer than advertised.  It seemed like it at the time.  I was surprised that I was so much slower in the OW with much more practice.  Now I have an explanation.

Aki, how was the ride?

Incredible job Jackie. You aced your run! I would be on cloud 9 for days. 

Btw, ernesto, I did a short crawl use 180method On friday night. It was a unique experience... since I was in control of HR there was need to stop at any time (walk breaks) and it felt like a very low effort at the end of it. Although I gave myself 10 extra beats on the HR given the weather that nite and some elevation on the route. Only complaint... it was quite a crawl from my standard jogs. This needs a LOT of improvement. 

I'm very happy for your 10K, now you beat it by over a minute! True, everybody in the team had good, safe races this weekend. About my own race it is not about my time, it is about my experience. I did not enjoy the race and that's what I really care about. Times are relative to the level of experience, age, genetics, training, nutrition, etc.

What's common to us all is the race enjoyment and that is what we should pursue every time we toe the line off. That's why I appear smiling in the pictures almost every single time, I truly enjoy the gift of fitness, the possibility to compete, the health and the great outdoors.

On Friday's workout I've noticed that when you did the 30" repeats your cadence dropped dramatically to about 55SPM which obviously indicates that you're striding VERY long when you go hard. Going hard should not diminish you cadence, it should keep it the same or increase it a tad. The stride will be longer but not that much.

The only difference between elite runners and ourselves is not the turnover but the amount of ground they cover with each stride. I'll recommend some other workouts (running drills) for you to get stronger in this area. Like you said there's room for improvement, the good news is that you have an enormous potential for growth.

Cheers! enjoy your post race beers while watching this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BaDYnpTA2Y&feature=player_embedded

Jen, Congratulations on the 1/2 mary.

Gabe, Congrats on the Oly Tri. A 9 minute PR is quite impressive!

Carol, Congrats on the sub 1hr. 10K! I've been chasing that goal forever but everytime I sign up for a race the temperature goes up at least 20 degrees for the day! 

Got back to Lake Michigan for an 800 meter open water swim today. No panic attack and much better sighting despite the significant swells. It was pretty windy out there today. The 1st. 1/4 out was right into the waves and took me about 25 minutes. The trip back was 14 minutes.

Ok All.   (and sorry for the long post).  I’ve got two races that I’ve signed up for and decisions to make. The races are a sprint tri on August 27 and a full marathon five weeks later on October 2.  The sprint tri is my hometown tri (it was new last year) and it was my first tri last year.  (Yesterday was my second). The marathon will be my first.  

 My problem is this:  It really is impossible to properly train for both.  I can’t, for instance, properly train for the sprint tri, and then, including recovery, train for a first marathon in five weeks.   So I’ve pretty much decided that while I will do the sprint tri (I hope to be one of those people in ten years who has done it since inception), my training will be directed at the marathon.  

My reasoning is pretty simple.  I could do a sprint tri (albeit very poorly) at the end of August even if I didn’t train at all, but it’s probably just plain dangerous to attempt a first marathon half-@ssed.  I’ve also thought about someone’s signature I saw on this website which goes something like “Triathlons are a winter sport held in the summer”, meaning that one does well in triathlons based on the training one does in the winter.  I can use the winter on my bike trainer, spin classes and the pool at my fitness club to build the bike legs and the swim skills over the winter, but I can’t train for running over the winter (treadmills just don’t substitute well for actual running in my humble opinion).   

But regarding how to train I'd love some feedback.  I’m intrigued by two methods I’ve been reading about that seem compatible.  The first is Maffetone’s book which I’ve read most of and skimmed the rest.  The second is the Hanson marathon training method.  The Hanson brothers’ 18 week marathon training program (http://www.hansons-running.com/images/trainingplans/begmarathon.pdf) (I’ve already missed the first two easy weeks) emphasizes, eventually, high weekly mileage (up to 50 miles), but no runs longer than 16 miles (and only four 15 miles or longer).  They have you run six days a week, but four of these days can be at any pace, preferably slow.  Only two days a week one is going anaerobic, but even these are not too bad.  Some weeks one does a day of 3 miles of intervals at between 5k and 10k pace, other weeks instead have 1 mile intervals at marathon goal pace minus 10 seconds pace (which isn’t a very fast interval).  Every week one does up to a 10 mile tempo run at marathon goal pace (7:50 for me, for a BQ finishing time of 3:25:15).   

So it seems to me that this is very compatible with building up my aerobic base a la Maffetone.  Today I got back up on the horse and ran six miles with the thought of only keeping my heart rate at 132 (180 minus my age).  My paces were between 9:51 and 10:42.  It seems to me I can spend between now and August using the Hanson plan, keeping my heart rate down and thus building my aerobic base four days a week, not screwing up the Maffetone plan too much with the anaerobic days, and on the off or low mileage days getting in easy mileage (keeping the heart under 132) on the bike or swim.   

Does this sound like a reasonable plan?  (And thanks to everyone for their kind words, help, and putting up with my whining.)

Jackie,Carol and Gabe....Way To Go!!!! Those posts are truly inspiring!  

Chris and Ernesto, I know your races didn't go as planned but you are both just as inspiring to us.

As for my race, yes I did complete my first 1/2.  You all know how my training (or lack of) was going.  I was really nervous this morning, I never ran that far.  In fact the longest was 9.47 miles and I did that a few weeks ago.  Ernesto, I know that I came out to fast...faster than I should have.  There was a nice overcast so the temp was mild, gota love June gloom in Southern California!  The first 2 miles were tough.  Not running this past week, I felt tight but I knew I would get through it.  I took on a get at the turnaround and was able to actually pass another runner.  I kept a steady pace all the way to mile 10.  I dropped my water bottle and couldn't get a groove back.  Mentally I was hurting more than physically, I kept telling myself I've never ran this far so it will be hard but keep pushing.  Mile 11 kicked my tail.  I walked for a few seconds a few times and for the life of me, I don't know why.  I wasn't hurting, but I was experiencing a new kind of tired.  I pushed through and there was mile 13..One more to go and I ran.  I didn't post a race report, but I did post the link for the garmin in my BT training log.  2:13!!!

Jen,

Congrats! You did it.  You ran longer than you ever have before.  And your Garmin page makes me insanely envious of the location.  (And Colorado is no less scenic).  

If you look at my 20 weeks of training for Ironman, you can see I never ran longer than 2:15 actually, or 16.5 miles under no circumstance. As being compatible or not I can tell you this: 40/50 miles of running weekly should not be incompatible with some swim/bike. Especially if you consider the benefits of cross training.

Just don't expect to be fast on your Sprint though...

At a later date, maybe after you do the Marathon, maybe you should consider training more on the bike and swim to bring them up to par with your running. I share the same feeling and that's why I understand you, if I ever have to quit tri's, I will love to keep running. It is by far the most beautiful sport in the world.

After you recover though, you should really start to focus on building an aerobic base. You will need it to conquer longer distances as you plan. Forget speed, this is a different game. Long races are ran 90% mental, 10% body.

Ernesto,

I need to return my Merrell Pace Gloves and get some racing flats or some other minimalist shoes.  Last week I tried on the Brooks T7 and the Saucony Kinvaras.  I notice you use both.  Do you alternate days with them or why do you have both?

Unfortunately, variety of reasons pushed my take-off time 31mins later than planned so 100km goal never stood a chance. I had approx 3hrs of riding time so I aim was to complete 7 laps (12.5kms each). Weather was high 80's and very humid (80%-90%). Probably used some glycogen in beginning trying to get from parking lot to race point that was couple of miles away. 

Course - Couple of small climbs with narrow, sharp hair-pin turns and one hill. It didn't seem like a big hill in the beginning but I was feeling it in the 6th lap. Crowd was 1 peloton (these guys were Wolfpack!!) and tons of assorted solo's at different levels. I tried to chase the fast movers in hopes to draft on them but comes the hill my speed drops but they stay in same gears, same speed. I was 200yrds behind in a matter of seconds. Eventually, I ended up doing around 6.5laps before running out of time. Noticed few crashes too... couple of seemed pretty bad. 

Question for coach - Ernesto, my biggest complaint on this ride was speed. I was pushing myself but didn't see a lot of speed or atleast didn't feel it on the road. I was hydrating myself with water and gatorade regularly, had a couple of Gu's and a half of my cliff bar. Energy/hydration never stood in the way. I was switching gears quite appropriately between climbs/descents-flats to get the most efficiency. Per Garmin, my avg HR was much higher than my regular training ride but the speed increase was nominal (1mph). I was hoping to do better than that... (added to the log). Is there anything I can do to focus on improving technique or its a just about more training and conditioning at this point?

Btw, 30mins after our ride, the pros took over the road. These were world-class athletes from everywhere around the world. When they pass next to you, there is a draft of wind like standing next to a moving express train.... whoa! Here are some pictures and short video clips of Clarendon Cup. 

http://tinypic.com/r/2ev46lg/7

http://tinypic.com/r/2u5wchj/7

http://tinypic.com/r/30kd6ig/7

http://tinypic.com/r/14lr86p/7

I was playing around with BT log privacy settings so its only viewable to people in friends list and not the visitors. Hopefully it works now.

You are going to have to be disciplined and keep your HR where it needs to be, not even 5 beats above your MAF or MAHR (whatever you wanna call it). Regardless of pace, do it and stay faithful for both bike and run. Shortly after (maybe about four weeks) the same effort will yield a MUCH faster pace. The other benefit is that you will finish your workouts invigorated and happy, instead of frustrated and beaten.

It's a leap of faith brother, not too many dare to slow down to go fast but it is THE solution. Of course later on you will do speed and go anaerobic, but right now it is not recommendable. First things first...

I am definitely not giving up on tri's, or giving up on getter faster on the bike and swim.  I'm just postponing major work in those areas until the winter.    I actually like biking, just not this race.  And those few miles of the bike route that were flat, straight, and smooth, where I was able to get into a groove and average 21 mph, were actually enjoyable.  

This is the second day of my Maffetone "go slow to get faster training".   I'd be interested in whether the paces I've had to run to keep the heart rate down to 132 are in line with your expectations.  (They are in my training log.)  My marathon training program doesn't have any speed work until three weeks from tomorrow, so this seems the ideal time to do this.  

That is good news for you though, it means that there's a LOT of room for improvement and it also means you've been training too hard, too long. Stay plugged with the system, be faithful and always keep in mind that it is going to feel counter intuitive at first. After a few weeks, you'll be thanking the running Gods you ever came to be in front of this book.

I find this funny.  My favorite scene in Citizen Kane is between the reporter and the accountant.   

Accountant (referring to Kane's guardian):  Stupidest man I've ever met. 

Reporter: He made an awful lot of money. 

Accountant: Well, it's no trick to make a lot of money... if all you want, is to make a lot of money. 

Why am I reminded of this? Well, it's no trick to keep your heart rate at 180 - age... if all want, is to keep your heart rate at 180 - age.    You just keep looking at your Garmin and slow down if it's too high and speed up if it's too low.  Things only get complicated when you have more than one goal. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87indycxudo

Chris:

I started my run training over again this weekend as well (shooting for a half mary in october and pacing a friend in the last lap of a 50 miler in oct).  Not following Maffetone but definitely adhering to zone 2 training for the next month.  It took a fair amount of discipline on my part to stay where I needed/wanted to be.  I'm hoping I'm a firm believer in a month by seeing faster paces while staying in zone 2.  Based on everyone's testimony I expect I will.

What I found most interesting is that I was pushing my HR a bit more than wanted - top of zone 2 for me - my avg pace was low 9 minutes.  That corresponded almost exactly to the easy run pace prescribed by McMillan in his running calculator - based on my 10k last year my easy runs should be in the 9:08 to 9:38 range.  Their running calculator give some neat datapoints, etc.

-Mitch

Ok Mentor and gang,

I understand that I can't really build a lot of speed during the season.  But, how do I keep from going slower?  Today's run was awful again.  I didn't quite make 7 AM Ernesto, because I didn't go to bed until 2 AM.  I just was busy getting ready to move and didn't feel tired.  I did make it out around 8:30.  I'm thinking it must be mental, because I just seem to decide I don't want to continue running.  Suggestions anyone?

What is vDot?

How do you get spm cadence on your runs?

Why would my goggles suddenly start leaking?

To all of you who are "slowing" down to go faster:

It really works!  It worked for me on the bike and I guess it worked for me on the run.  But I remember complaining to Ernesto (just like all of you are feeling) that it was so dreadfully slow that I didn't even feel like I had worked out.  Be patient.  You will love the results!