Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 30)

DENNIS -

I hope AMY sees your post,  just to provide some counter-balance to what I'm about to say.

I was a gym rat from early '05 until about May of '11, and for the last four years it was strictly upper body and core for me.  Part of this was becasue in early '06 I tore my right medial meniscus, and while i don't think lower-body strength work was a culprit, I didn't want to take any chances moving forward.  And then there was also the thought i had that, given all the time I spent beating up my legs with running and cycling, I shouldn't stress them any more than necessary; so I gave up on lower-body strength training.

I was happy with that decision.  Not only did it remove some of the time-crunch problems, but it was just altogether easier to manage.  And, for me, it was all no more than moderate lifting -- I wasn't after bulk, but rather just sopme semblance of "functional strength"; I think it worked well in that regard.

AMY is much more into heavier weights, and I'm sure it's a whole-body experience for her.  A woman in one of my former groups loved lifting, and especially felt that lower body stuff helped hugely with her cycling.

Finally, 30 minutes is a good length to begin with --- especially to BEGIN with.  I was really adept at having my first session or two back to lifting after the race season be pretty aggresssive.........and I would ached terribly for several days.........and even then I didn't learn the lesson very quickly, which is to start with light weights and low reps.  Easy to remember, tough to manage!!!

I'm one of those triathletes who actually works in 2-3 hours of weights DURING the race season!  This is just one more reason why sprints are working so well for me.  The volume of s/b/r training required is less than the longer distance events.

My suggestion if you have only two 30 minute sessions is to do a "push" day and a "pull" day. Push muscles are chest, shoulders, triceps.  Pull muscles are back and biceps.  Try to fit in 2-3 exercises per muscle group with 3 sets of each exercise.  Since your goal is just to tone the muscles, you should shoot for sets of about 12 reps with a weight that's heavy enough to cause muscle failure by that last rep.  In other words, if you finish the 12 and feel you could do another 5 reps, you need more load.

As for the legs, many people feel that runners/bikers don't necessarily need to weight train their legs.  I'm not 100% sure I believe that.  Could you toss in one more 30 minute session each week?  Lunges, squats and other multi-joint movements--especially those that work in the lateral plane since we swim/bike/run people are only moving in the forward when we train--can be beneficial for that cross training effect you desire.

If you'd like some specific exercises, I'm more than happy to expound on the topic.  I can drone on and on about weights

I may have missed it, but curious as to how things were going to proceed?

PATTI -

Yes!  Massage can be quite an ordeal; embrace the discomfort!

It sounds like your yesterday's practicioner is maybe closer to Graston, or rolfing......which may be a good thing as way of prep for you and an A.R.T. person, as A.R.T. is somewhere between regular massage and rolfing.  But hey -- the pain feels so good when it stops!

As for your pain, though, I'm wondering about something edging towards sciatica.  The use of "shooting pain" is very consistent with sciatica, as is being an overall distraction when it is active.  It's good, though, that's your shooting is only as far down as the upper thigh; many episodes of sciatica can extend much further.

But as for it emanating in the buttocks, and the shooting aspect......sounds like sciatica.  I will try to check out sciatica to refresh my memory asd I have never had it myself, and you do as well and see how it matches up.  I think it would change your therapeutic approach dramatically if the problem was sciatica as opposed to hamstring, but I'll also check on what therapies can work for sciatica.

As for the lifting, go reeeeaaaallllll easy to begin with.  If you think 10lb dumbells migth be about right ----- drop down to 5lb ones.  if you think you can do 12 reps ---- stop at 8.  Otherwise, you will likely suffer Stupid Steve Syndrome, chaarcterized by unbearably sore muscles from about 6-48 hours post-lift.  Arrggghhhh!! 

Let me know how your tokhis/hammy symptomes match up with scaitica possibilities, okay?

BEN -

Business as usaul -- comparable to your favorite restaurant that switches location, but keeps the same owner, menu, cooks, and waitpersons!

AMY -

Great post!  I agree with PATTI that it's a keeper, especially the "push" and "pull" recommendations.  They make utter and complete sense, but i have never thought of lifting in that way.

As I said in my other post, even though i am not 100% certain about lower body work and that it might not be necessary for runners and cyclists, I still abstain from it.  About 95% of that, however, is from the fear of retearing my mensiscus, as it was never surgically repaired; it just healed on its own.  (As a "longitudinal tear", surgery would only have dramatically contributed to early-onset arthritis of that knee; the best option was to be patient and let it heal in good time [about 5 months, I guess it was]).

In my perfect world, however, (a) I would have ample time for lifting, (b) a good gym would be close to me, and (c) I would include legs!  (And on all three counts:  sigh, sigh, sigh.....)

----------------------------------------  FYI ---------------------------------------------------------

Who we are!

It seems we have settled into a group of ~15, with maybe 10 "regulars", a few "sub-regulars", and a few who are more or less "sporadic".  In no particluar order for the first two categories:

• Matt
• Patti
• Kate
• Donto
• Amy
• Doug
• Samantha
• Mike
• Joe
• Dennis
• Dave
• Wayne

Nothing recently from

• Shana
• Greg
• Tiffany

..............although this is a screwy time of year for many people (it's amazing that so many of you have continued posting regularly over the past few weeks!). 

The group's founder and mad scientist, Quincy, has been extremely busy with family and work for the past month-plus, but I figure she'll be back sometime in January; hope so!

And that seems to be it.  Oh, there is also Ben, who pops in here periodically but who is really a member of the "other" twitchy group.

I'm still running a previous group which is down to about six memebers, and have thought about morphing them in with us, but our numbers are quite strong and other than my own ease of addressing this stuff (and also further cross-pollination), I'm not sure I see a huge benifit.

Thoughts?

Steve, I say bring the other group members over.  The more the merrier 

Enjoy your holiday everyone!!!

Bring 'em over Steve!

(BTW Donto = Don, or as my mother calls me Donald)

I finished the 1st test week for the BT/Jorge cycling plan.  The 5' test was 247w, 20' was 216w for a C.P. of 205.5w. About were I expected to be after having way too much time off the bike this year, now the real training begins .  So far so good in incorporating BarryP plan with this too, the short runs are actually my warm-up before hopping on the trainer.

Anyone else doing the cycling program this winter?  I can't remember.

Merry Christmas everyone!

BEN -

Good points, and as I have mulled this over I know I will want to make it clear to the others that short course is indeed the focus.  i want to keep true to that.........although i realize there are a couple of the group here who are considering a half-iron in '13.  I don't think this is a big overriding priority for them, and what people do with their season's plans is nothing I can legislate.  I also know that, if people start asking questions about half-irons --- I won't be able to deny them.  (Call me an old softie, if you must!)

One of the reasons I posted the list yesterday was to let me people see the size we're at, give or take the few who are not exactly "frequent fliers".  And, I haven't mentioned any of this to the other group, waiting a few days for people to express themselves here.  I could add that attrition always happens in groups, and even though there were about 13 "regulars" as of last night, I fully expect a few of them to drift away my, say, March.  I do NOT want  that to happen, of course, but in my previous five groups that's just the way things have shaken down.

Onwards!

Happy 12/25, gang, however you "observe" it --- the full seasonal deal, or just an excuse to sleep in and not have to report to work.  

It's slow for us.  Jane is currently en route to Zanzibar and Tanzania on a belated honeymoon, and Peter won't arrive until late afternoon.  I have a bad cold, which makes me mostly the Wicked Elf of the North; I fully deserve ritual shunning.

Ho, ho, ho, twitchy ones!

While I'm not doing the actual plan itself, I incorporate some of Jorge's Trainer Road workouts pretty regularly into my plan (mostly the "Crag" one... 6 x 4' supra-threshold - fun stuff ).  I also took one of his tempo/sweet spot workouts and morphed it into something a little longer.

Hi Steve,

I'm still here just I've been sick with back to back sinus infections. Just recently have I started to feel normal again....I've been running quite a bit but since my local YMCA shut down their pool for the winter my swimming has fallen to the wayside.

Sooo, I'm doing the Louisiana half marathon in January!!

SHAHA -

Hey!  You're here!!

Back-to-back sinus infections musta been awful.  The one doozy I had a few years ago was plenty enough to last a lifetime, and to see that one depart only to make way for a second - oh, noooooooooooooo!!

Louisiana H-M in January!  Soon!  Cool beans!

Is this your first half-marathon?  It is a wonderful distance, one that is actually fun to train for and pretty easy to rebound from -- win-win!  What is your longest run to date for it?  And when is it?  (Never mind -- I'll check myself.)

Shutting down a pol for thewinter is just so unnecessary, at least from a triathlete's perspective.  Do you have any other swim options?

Glad you're back!!

SHANA again -

Saturday!  January 20!!  7 a.m.!!!

(Beautiful race logo, too!)

10 miles was my longest run...I'm hoping do well, this is would be my 1st half (but not the first I've signed up for).  It should be awesome, I just hope we don't get sidelined by inclement weather.

I have to drive all the way to East Baton Rouge to swim now...and it sucks.  At times like this winning the lotto would be awesome. I'd build my own 50m indoor pool...

SHANA -

If your lottery winnings are large enough ----- would you build me a pool, too?

FWIW, I have always had to drive no less than 35 minuttes each way to get to a pool, and it can be up to 50 minutes depending on which pool and the gharliness of traffic.  I hope your drives to east B.R. aren't much longer than that.

You're in great shape at 10 miles now, with just under four weeks until the race.  What are you hoping to get up to as your longest run?  Even if it's short of 13.1 miles, that's okay -- race-day adrenaline will bridge any "missing" miles of your training!

When you say "onclement weatehr", would that be cold in your case?  If so, it's probably worth trying one of your longer runs early in the nmorning, just to feel the sweet embrace of a cool/cold morning.  And I'll see the same for precip, that if you have the "opportunity" to run in rain/sleet/hail/whatever, do so.  It might'n't be fun at the time, but it'll get your psyche ready to handle it on race day.  For true!

Amy & Steve, thanks for the replies!  I'm definitely at the same end of the spectrum as Steve - strength training to even things out and get some attention to those non-tri muscle groups.  I used to do lots of dedicated weight training back in college, but know that I no longer have the time or interest for that kind of routine anymore.

About as far as I've gotten with figuring out a routine was deciding that planks are the devil, and therefore ought to be included.  The dedicated push/pull days is an interesting idea, though I have this vague memory from a past life that you ought to do any exercise 2x per week to get any benefit - is that just bunk?

MIKE (and DONTO, er, Doanld) -

I just have to figure out what the Jorge workouts are all about; I feel so clueless.

The masochist in me is really curious about the "Crag" one, but just thinking about 6 x 4' at supra-threshold (and with the emoticon to give voice to its effects) also gives me the willies.  I used to thrive on those types of trainer-based challenges........but I'm not sure I'm in that place anymore.

As for the morphing of a tempo/sweetspot workout and making it my own, well, I used to do that with some of the really nasty "Spinervals" workouts -- couldn't keep up with Coach Troy's studio studs, so I did what I could and lengthened them to a point in which I didn't feel too guilty.  Ta-da!

Nice victory for the Ravens over the reeling Jints!

Ok to drop in once in awhile? Suffefest also has some nice ones for that type of work. Hell Hath No Fury, The Hunted, and Extra Shot all all have 1 or 2 20' sections each. Extra Shot: The Long Scream has 30 min, and The Wretched has a 35 min section. The two Extra Shots can be particularly useful because they have very little outside of the main set (hence the "extra").

And you don't *have* to attack or surge as hard as they do in the vids. For those with power, using ~7.5 as my target wattage for the interval and 0.5 changes as ~5%FTP has worked well. You can adjust that as well. Sometimes I make it flatter, or smaller changes. Like for The Long Scream, I might only bump it up 5 watts or so as that one is a time trial with very steady output throughout.

BEN -

Sure it's okay to drop in -- but you always have to be bearing such fine knowledge as in your post above!

Seriously, thanks for your though and expertise with those video ordeals.  I have never had any power-based system, other than what came with the CompuTrainer I had for a few years -- and that's not at all the same.  I will print off your numbers and stick it on a wall somewhere so that I can summon them up at some future point for someone else.

I'm a pretty strong cyclist, and it never ceased to amaze me how readily Coach Troy and his minions could shred me.  i once read that when prowls around the riders and reads their numbers, they aren't always as high or as impressive as he says.  I thought about that for a while and liked the way it made me feel...but then I studied the riders and believed every bit of it; they sure looked to be working harder than I was!

I should go back to some of the killer ones and see where I am with them now.  My cycling "A" game was reached about '07, and I have psent precious little time with Spinervals in the intervening years.  Who knows?  I may be surprised at being better at them now!  (Or not..........)