Ironman Coeur d'Alene : Official Thread (Page 31)

Congratulations!!!!

Wow.  Congrats. 

You are the second person to tell me that about the gears.  Any suggestions? 

I'll point you to a couple people that have discussed it:  our own JoshKaptur on this thread recommends a compact crankset (50-34).  Also DaveLuscan recommends the same thing for people with less than 4 watts per kg.

As for myself, I'm a good climber, weighing 150lbs and have lots of hills to train in my area.   I rode with a standard crankset (53-39) + 12-25 cassette last year.  I felt ok but I'm switching to a 12-27 for the upcoming race.  This only affects the 2 biggest gears, which become 24,27 instead of 23,25.  Basically a little easier to spin on the hills without swapping my crankset, which is expensive, and I like what I have on shorter races.

mallen4574 who was a Kona qualifier had standard + 12-23, rode CdA in 5:09.  I would've been mashing too low a cadence on the hills with his setup.

What are you riding on right now, just curious?

I'm currently riding a standard crank (53-39) with a 12-25 on the back.  I'm a large rider (~200 lbs) maybe down to 190 by CDA, but doubt I can drop much more than that.
I'm planning on buying a 12-28 or maybe 11-28 very soon and riding the crap out of my local mountan (800 ft ascent over 2.5 miles).  Hopefully, will be build enough leg strength and/or confidicence to ride that for IMCdA. 
I DO NOT want to buy a compact crank due to cost, but will if I have to.

You definitely don't have to, but I'd recommend it to MOST riders, especially bigger riders.  Will you be able to ride the course on a standard + 28... I have no doubt.  In fact I'm sure you could ride it with your present gears.  Will you have a better selection of gears to allow you to stay within your target power zones regardless of where on the course you are with a compact... yes.

I have a bunch of strong opinions about why people don't have the race they thought they were capable of.  They fit into two categories - poor training, and poor raceday execution.  I'd venture to say that 95% of the people who are disappointed in their IM finish time made significant mistakes in one or both of those areas.

One of the most common execution mistakes is riding too hard on the bike.  And one of the reasons people get sucked into that, especially on courses with hills, is being inadequately geared and having HUGE power spikes on the climbs, which simply fries your legs and you will pay for it on the run.

I became convinced after playing with the gear calculations on *I think* Sheldon Brown's site.  I realized that I did not need a 53x11, but could definitely use a 30x26 (what I used at lake placid) and a 30x28 (what I used at savageman). 

On any part of an IM course where I would spin out my 50x11, I'm better off just tucking into the most aerodynamic position I have and not pedaling at all... saving my effort for later.  Being able to go slightly faster on the steepest downhills with a 53x11 is simply not worth the effort expended, and to me, definitely not worth the loss of gears for the climbs.

As a reference point, I'm 6'2", 171 pounds, and rode my compact + 12/26 to a 5:20 bike, followed by a 3:30 run... and I never once wished for harder gearing, and a few times wished for easier gearing.

CdA does not have the sustained climbing that IMLP has, but it does have a bunch of short and relatively steep climbing.  Hitting these with speed will be key... but being able to spin up and accelerate over the top while maintaining target power vs. hammering up outside your target power when you run out of gears... well for me that's a no brainer.

This is all convenient for me to say, since my tri bike came with a compact.  For me, despite being a decently talented rider... that was a selling point.  I'm sympathetic to those not wanting to drop the $$ on the compact crank... but note that it's not really that much money compared to what many of us will invest on race day.  I can virtually guarantee you a better overall finish time if you ride the compact.

I will say this - CdA is not all hills.  If you really want to simulate it - outside of a computrainer, do this:

On your long rides, get about 30-40 miles of "normal" riding, then ride steep hills at the end of it for several miles.  Then cooldown.  That's your first loop of CdA.  Repeat it and there's your course in a nutshell.

The biking along Lake CdA and up Government Way only has shallow inclines.  Once you get up around Lake Hayden you'll run into the steeper, shorter hills.

Spud--you know you've started a mini-Army/Navy battle in the group now, right??  
That's okay though, good motivation!  Actually, being here in San Diego, I'm the anomaly as far as Army goes--and so I have had fun wearing my USMA and Army Cycling jerseys.  One day I got a "Beat Army" from another rider, which of course received a "Beat Navy" back--but she's an '08 USNA grad and we ride together on and off now.  An excellent friendly rivalry.

To the group--we'll try our best not to get out of control...but I can't promise too much.

This is key.  Conserving the mileage you put on your legs during the ride can only help your running.  The only exception I'd make on the CdA course are a couple spots where you want to carry speed into the next uphill.  But for the most part, conserve conserve conserve.

Bingo. Without really trying, this was how many of my long rides went last year, and it was perfect CDA prep. I also have a good hill at the end of EVERY ride from home just to put the exclamation point on the day, no matter what the distance.

I did a training camp last April on my then-new tri bike with the standard cassette (12-23, maybe?). After camp, I came home and promptly replaced the rear cassette -- I don't remember the specifics, but I think I went from 12-23 to 12-27 or 28 (my bike is downstairs and after running 17 miles this morning, I'm too lazy to walk down to count). Anyway, it made a difference for me in that it gave me more granny gears, which I needed for sure.

I'm a pretty conservative athlete by nature and feel I paced my bike perfectly (if a bit too easy) as my legs were fine on the run. After a cold, wet spring of training, however, my tummy was NOT fine on the run (hot day), which hindered my performance. Have thought a lot about how to prevent that next year (likely fewer calories if the day is hot, remember to grab Tums at first special needs on the run)...

That's a hard part about IMs (and marathons too): When things don't go as planned, getting a "do-over" is not easy to come by!! Ha! Much easier to test a different execution on an Oly or a half-marathon!

Not to worry.  I lost that battle the day I accepted my appointment to Annapolis.  My dad was Army

So Josh, maybe you mentioned this above, but what are you planning on bringing to CDA? 
12-26 or 12-28?

As far as cranks go, is the extra dough for a Dura-Ace worth the cost difference over Ultegra or maybe SRAM red?

Not sure exactly what cassette I'll run.  I train with an 11-23 on the trainer, and usually ride with an 12-26 on the road.  I bought an 11-28 for Savageman (had grades up to 31%)... that will get you up anything that people ride up on skinny tires.

Truth be told, I'll probably have an 12-26 and an 11-28 with my at CdA, and will preview a few hills after I get there to make my decision.

This is the website I was talking about if anyone wants to play with gear ratios:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/

I would DEFINITELY not go for dura ace over ultegra cranks.  In fact, you can get a perfectly good FSA compact crank for even cheaper. 

You might want to watch for discarded compact cranks for sale cheap on ebay.  They're often available brand new but at a discount after being taken off new bikes when people switch for a standard crank or a higher end crank.

Here's a perfectly good compact crank - seller claims 1000 miles and it looks good to me - for 30-60 bucks depending on the ending bid:
http://cgi.ebay.com/FSA-Gossamer-Compact-50-34-172-5mm-Road-Bicycle-Crank-/400171170888?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5d2c0f7c48

Here's a SRAM Rival taken off a bike in a new build... starting bid $60:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-2010-SRAM-RIVAL-COMPACT-CRANK-50-34-172-5-BLACK-/320616574781?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aa63caf3d

Here's a brand new Shimano Ultregra for $122.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-Ultegra-Compact-170mm-Road-Bike-Crank-Crankset-/320615447190?pt=Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aa62b7a96






Edited by JoshKaptur 2010-11-12 9:24 PM

Also note that there wasn't a Dura-Ace compact crankset until this year -- the 7950.  Since it's brand new you're probably looking at ~400 bucks if you go that route.  Whether it's worth it... I guess depends on your pocketbook

Did I hear Army/Navy battle?  Now I may not be a service member myself, but as a former Navy brat (dad was Annapolis grad, then on to Sub force), I know a thing or two about this   Go Navy!

On another note, has anyone used the Real Rides DVD yet?  I rode the first DVD yesterday and the second today.  I figured I'd work up to 3 hours on the trainer at once, seemed like a bit much right now.  It looks like a really fun course, but I didn't feel like I got a good idea of how steep the hills were.  All this talk of gearing has gotten me a bit nervous.  I have a standard crankset and a 12-25 cassette.

Maybe I need to get myself out to CdA sometime in early spring to ride the course and then decide how to switch gears?  My watts to Kg at threshold is definitely below 4....

Washington - the rainy side, although I grew up on the sunny side. I still miss the weather and it's been 25 years since I lived there. 

Good luck with IMTX.  I think your plan for renting an RV and making a trip out of it sounds grand.  Makes me think I should have planned for that for CdA 2011.  Enjoy all the CdA talk. 

Wow, disappear for a week and I had several pages to catch up on.  I love that this forum is so active.

Well, I'm in the midst of some serious rest time right now, both physically and mentally, before starting up the CdA training.  It feels so good to just relax.  I finished the New York marathon last Sunday then spent four days walking around the city with the family in full tourist mode. That makes for some very tired feet and legs.  I also don't think the New Yorkers appreciated my glacial pace getting up and down the subway stairs for a couple of days after the race.

Anyway, mini-report ... All that training and preparation paid off with a solid race (3:13) that was just two minutes off my 3-year-old PR.  It was a tougher course than I had given it credit for before the race and the cold and wind didn't help.  For the first time, I actually spent a few minutes in the medical tent after the race warming up and getting stretched.  Those are such nice people.  Another first is I finally got the fueling right and never had to stop and didn't bonk.  I'll definitely use that knowledge in CdA prep.

So now I'm going to do my best sloth impression for another week.  Ok, I might go for a little swim and do the bike commute to work, but that's about it.  Then it'll be time to run and bike just for fun for a couple of weeks before I really start to turn my attention to CdA. 

Cheers,
Brad 

Great job!  Congrats!

A good blog about run frequency, pretty much what Josh has been advocating.
http://stevefleck.blogspot.com/2010/11/running-frequency.html

Spokane, WA  :-)

3:13?!  Smokin fast!  Great job!

Thanks Ann! Have a great time in Philly.  I talked with some runners in New York who said they have done the Philly race before and really liked it.  Hopefully, you will have the same experience.  Congratulations on your anniversary and have a fun hockey vacation! 

Thanks Rene! Always fun when things come together at the right time.