Gray Guys/Girls Master's Focus Triathlon Mentor Group--CLOSED (Page 32)

Here are the updated Weight Loss/Workout Challenge points.

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Oh my gosh!  Talk about a blast from the past.  I saw this article on Triathlete.com and it brought back painful memories - http://triathlon.competitor.com/2014/08/training/birthday-swim-workout_103873.

Back when we did this it wasn't a challenge.  It was a 100 x 100 workout we did twice a year as the final Saturday workout before we began to taper for the National Championships.  Before long-course nationals we did it in a 50-meter pool, prior to short-course nationals we were in a 25-yard pool.  Our format was a bit different than the website's, in the 50-meter pool we did it like this (short-course intervals were 10 seconds less):

• 1 - 5 @ 2:00 warm-up
• 6 - 10 @ 2:00 easy/hard build
• 11 - 20 @ 1:50
• 21 - 30 @ 1:45
• 2-minute nutrition/hydration break
• 31 - 40 @ 1:40
• 41 - 50 @ 1:35
• 51 - 60 @ 1:30
• 2-minute nutrition/hydration break
• 61 - 70 @ 1:25
• 71 - 80 @ 1:20
• 81 - 90 @ 1:15
• 91 - 95 @ 1:10
• 96 - 100 @ 2:00 cool-down

The week before this workout, we did 80 x 100 in our specialty stroke or as Individual Medley for those of us that were IM specialists with a similar challenging interval.  Ahhh, those were the days!

I don't imagine many swim teams are doing this workout any longer however I can't imagine a better final preparation for an Ironman swim.  It would absolutely get you ready mentally and if you are able to get through this workout, the 3.8K/2.4 mile IM swim would seem like a warm-up!

So who's up for the challenge?

Scott - I can't even imagine doing 10,000 meters in the pool!  I have enough trouble just getting to 1400!  It's an interesting challenge though - maybe something to put on the bucket list.  

I pretty much fell off the training wagon this week.  Partly due to life getting in the way, partly due to just laziness on my part.  I've got a 10k trail race Saturday morning - hopefully that will get me back on track.  It's going to be an interesting race.  It's been raining here for most of the last 2 days (so there will be mud) and the weatherman says there's a chance of snow flurries Saturday morning - just when we thought spring was finally here.  I'm still looking forward to the race though (it's at a beautiful nature reserve), and maybe a good romp through the mud is just what I need to get my butt moving again! 

Janet

Deb,

I do at least half of my workouts indoors with Trainer Road, even though I live in sunny Southern California where I can ride outside just about all the time.  While I think everyone needs actual time in the saddle on the road,  I just get a better workout with TR and it is a LOT safer than sharing the road with the crazy drivers now days.

Glad you are starting to feel better.

Scott,

I guess the short answer is, it depends.

Back when I did this workout, I was putting in 12-15,000 meters per day, seven days a week.  Doing a 10,000 meter workout was actually a rest day.  On the other hand, if someone is doing 3,000 yards per day a couple days a week (a number I pulled out of the air for discussions sake), and that person attempts a 10,000 meter workout, that person is likely going to be VERY sore requiring an extended recovery at best and injured at worst as they have no where near the base to support that intense a workout.

In Rick's case (assuming your are talking about Rick Colella), he was quite accomplished back in the day.  If memory serves, not only did he place 3rd in the 200-meter Breaststroke at the '76 Olympic Games in Montreal, he also placed fourth in the 200-meter Breaststroke at the '72 games in Munich, Germany.  Rick was a few years ahead of me and likely doesn't even know my name, although he probably remembers a couple of the guys I use to train with and compete against; Steve Genter ('72 games), Bruce Furness ('76 games), Gary Hall ('72 games), and Mark Spitz ('72 games).  Those guys were all in the twilight of their swimming careers as I was beginning my career.  I remember working out with Steve Genter and thinking, this is the guy I want to be like.  And it probably wasn't my best day when at the ripe age of 15 I found myself swimming in a final of the 200-freestyle at the L.A. Invitational against none other than Mark Spitz - I asked him for his autograph before the race (needless to say, I was still learning the mental side of competition).

But I digress, Rick likely has experienced the same thing I have, namely - that was then, this is now.  I have no idea what kind of training volume he is putting in now.  On the surface, his 5,125 yards in an hour Postal swim works out to an average of slightly over 1:10/100 yards which may suggest he is still putting in high volume.  The reality is that back in the day, he was probably turning in 100 freestyle times that were sub 0:50.  It wouldn't surprise me in the least that he was turning in sub 5:00 500-yard freestyle times.  His current time, while it may appear pretty quick, is likely 15-20 seconds off his pace back when he was a couple days younger.  It would take FAR fewer yards for him to maintain an endurance pace (STP) of 1:10 then it would take an adult-onset swimmer to achieve that pace in the first place.  My point is, I suspect he has not been putting in the kind of volume that you likely should be putting in to safely do a 10,000 meter workout.  I know I can swim 1:15 100's all day long and I am currently (well, until a couple weeks ago) only swimming 4-5,000 yards per week on average until I start the build for my 'A' race.  If I were to attempt the Birthday Challenge workout, I would probably be sore for a month.  I shudder to think what I would feel like if I attempted the 100 x 100 workout we did back in the day.  So the first thing is having the appropriate base to attempt a workout like that, the second thing is recovery, which I think is your point.  If you have the adequate base, the recovery will be much easier.  If you are over-reaching for the workout, recovery is going to be a Be-atch.  I'd be curious to hear why Rick thinks he has had such a long recovery.  I know I can envision a situation where I could be talked into attempting that workout, even knowing I don't really have the base for it.  My money is something similar happened for Rick, he did something he intellectually knew he probably shouldn't do, but his heart said, "Go for it."  That is the problem with being competitive - we sometimes don't admit to our limits.

So, after all of that, my answer is still, it depends.

Scott,

I thought about this some more overnight.  In my original post about the Birthday Challenge I said, "I don't imagine many swim teams are doing this workout any longer."  I said that because back when I did this workout, the commonly held belief was that if you could still move after a workout you didn't go far enough, and if you didn't throw-up during the workout you didn't go hard enough.  Fortunately, neither of those mindsets are true any longer and coaches have learned better training methods.

That isn't to say that swimmers today are not putting in massive yardage, nor is it to say that they don't train with high intensity.  Rather, it is to say that a 100 x 100 workout is more of a novelty than anything else as there are far more effective ways to accomplish what that workout tried to accomplish.

I strongly believe an athlete should fully understand why they are doing what they are doing in a workout, i.e.- What is this specific workout going to do for me?  If you understand swim training and specifically endurance training - extensive endurance, intermediate endurance, and intensive endurance - than you can pretty quickly see that the 100 x 100 descending workout pretty much does nothing but make you sore and give you bragging rights from a physiological perspective.  In the beginning, the intervals are too long to improve aerobic base, as you progress, there is a brief period where you may begin to build aerobic base, but there isn't enough time in that zone to justify the accumulation of training stress being placed on the body.  The workout continues on in that manner all the way through to the end.  When it is all said and done, there are probably only three or four sets where the interval is actually accomplishing something physiologically, the rest is just junk yardage.  So the question would be, "Why not just do the effective sets and eliminate the junk yardage?"

On the other hand, if the goal of the workout were to build mental endurance for an Ironman 2.4 mile swim, then I may be more inclined to say it would be a valuable workout if the intervals were lengthened to place the swimmer solidly into high zone 2.  After completing that workout, the swimmer would have accomplished a couple of things, a) they would have the confidence they could easily manage the IM distance on race day, b) they would know they could deal with the mental strain of swimming for a very long period of time, c) that would have a tremendous understanding of pacing.

Understand what you are doing and why your are doing it.

So the answer to your question is, I don't believe a 100 x 100 descending workout is a viable workout from a physiological perspective, especially given there are far more effective ways to train.  From a mental standpoint, a 100 x 100 workout may have benefit, however, if I were the coach, I would not have ANY athlete attempt that workout without sufficient base to support the workout (That is actually true of any athlete, doing any workout.  If they don't have sufficient base in place to support the workload they should not be doing the workout).

Now, if your looking for bragging rights and you have the base to support it, then all bets are off.  I remember being the fastest kid in the pool and completing that workout would have been REALLY good for the ego!

• +5 points for no weight gain
• +0 points for 0 pounds lost
• +21.2 point for 637 workout minutes
• Total: 26.2 points

Still didn't lose any weight. This is going to require some thought!

I spent the weekend babysitting by niece's 3 month old son (not sure what that makes me, but we are calling me the "anti-grandpa" because I look a lot like my brother - his actual grandpa). I've discovered that training for triathlons doesn't prepare you for babysitting an 18 pound 3-month old. My arms hurt, may back hurts, and my ear hurt (crying). Raising children is definitely a young-persons adventure!

Scott I.

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"You aren't old until age becomes your excuse." Joe Friel


Edited by EchoLkScott 2015-03-29 11:04 PM

Spent 7.5 hours on the trainer this week and lost 1.6 pounds.

Got with my running coach and tried a bit of running on the treadmill but coach said "NO!"  Apparently my form is off with my shoulder still in a sling so he doesn't want me running with poor form.  Oh well, a couple more weeks before I can get back to running.

Weight Loss Challenge:

10.06 hours = 600 minutes = 20 points

Lost 1 lb                           =  1 point

No weight gain                  =  5 points

Total                                = 26 points

Had a lot of fun last week.

Hey Everyone!

Here are the updated totals for the Weight Loss/Workout Challenge.  We are missing a couple people's totals but I wanted to get the points up, I will update it if/when those missing get numbers in.

Looks like it is down to a battle between Scott I. and Georg for the top spot.  Triathlon season is rapidly approaching and I imagine that most everyone is beginning to think about transitioning from the base phase to a build so training minutes will likely increase over the coming weeks.

Happy training everyone!

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This is pretty much directed at those who are in the Weight Loss/Workout Challenge.

Back when we started the challenge, I said we would likely end it around the end of March.  That was based on information that the winter mentor groups would likely end around the beginning of April.  Steve and I had a chat a couple days ago and our recollection is that the winter groups typically end around the middle of May.

I think, barring any disagreement from the group, that we should extend the challenge and have our final check-in on Sunday, May 3.  If the group suddenly ends before 5/3, we will go the the most current weekly results for the winner and I will contact you to arrange to get you "prize" to you.

Does that work for everyone?

Hello..

Looks like everyone is busy...   I scanned the posts and looks like everyone is progressing forward - I love it.   But Scott, no birthday challenge swim for me...   

Earlier this winter I scrapped my 70.3 plans for Boise even though I have several friends still participating.

Lately, I have been riding outside with my friend planning for 70.3 St. George and 140.6 CDA and last Sunday we did a 4-hour hilly bike ride...52 miles - my longest ever.   For the last several weekends we have been biking every Fri, Sat and Sunday.  With those rides and getting more comfortable, I am starting to reconsider my 70.3 options since I am already practically biking the distance.

I am looking at Calgary 70.3 since it still gives me time to concentrate on all three disciplines.  Has anyone else tackled the course and have any insights?

Great job everyone for persevering through life and continuing on with dedication training!

Tammy - My friend Greg and I did the 2014 IMCalgary 70.3 and it was a great day.  The swag was a bit limited but the medal is a big cowboy type belt buckle and the t-shirts were pretty good (at a quick glance they almost look like Harley Davidson shirts).

I wrote a race report last year so if you go into my profile you can easily find it if you're interested.  By all means ask any questions you want I like reminiscing about past events.  I'll give it some thought in case I can think of anything of interest for you.

Opps!  That came out wrong!  I didn't mean 'End' as in go away.  At some point the winter groups become spring/summer groups.  That is beyond our choice or control.  I was referring to the end of the 2015 Winter Gray Guys/Gals group.  I think it will be harder for BT to get rid of the Gray Guys/Gals group than just changing seasons.

Tammy,

Glad to hear you are reconsidering a 70.3.

And your right, a couple more pedal strokes and you would have gone the HIM bike distance!