Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 33)

the HM is late Feb, and I have no idea when my first tri will be.  Haven't exactly been out in front of planning my season (all I had planned as an anchor was the Cohasset tri, which sold out in about 18 seconds&hellip.  I used a combo of Higdon's intermediate and advanced for a HM I ran in early November (did the last 6 weeks of it, at least, as I had my last tri in mid-September) and ran very well for me (1:43:30).  I'm hoping to carve a few off that this time, but the weather and an insane Q1 at work might make that harder...

I think I can go hard at just the HM (would like to PR - as always!) and then work toward races as they make it to the calendar.

Good luck on both the HM and the "M" - hope you get to scratch that itch, as it's a cool thing to have done, for sure!

In general, though, I was just wondering if the distance of and training for 13.1 was longer than is ideal for 5k and 10k races (optimizing the fast twitch thing, not just trying to make them fit together - which is very doable, I agree).  As I always try to run negative splits, I could convince myself that it's not that different from being tired at the end of a longish sprint!  

Thanks all for the replies!  

Matt

Thanks.  

That was basically the approach I used for a HM in early November (see earlier post).  I threw in rides when it was nice in place of the short runs or rest days, and mostly swam as recovery.  The last 2 weeks, I was all running…  It worked really well for me, and I didn't feel like I lost much on the bike or swim when I got back to them after a few days of chilling post race.

I'm really curious to see how this carries over to the tri season, as my run was proportionally the worst of the three disciplines (although my swim might be challenged this season secondary to a now bad L shoulder, but that's a different kettle of fish).  

Matt 

If I can get a spot (it sells out in about 5' each year), I will likely do it - even without regard to carry over to the sprints.  The folks I ride with (and Strava being the motivator for short bursts of intensity) will likely keep enough intensity to not just build "junk mile" base...

I'm wondering, though, if it's "ideal" for sprints - not just doable.  I know one can make it work and have a good season with lots of different kinds of other races thrown in (long, short, odd&hellip, but I'm curious if the distance - which has to be less intense than a sprint of oly effort - is the optimal way to build into a "fast twitch" season.

The extra miles will probably just be good - more aerobic time, more base, etc…  I hope I get the chance to test that!

Thanks (and what kind of aviator?).

Matt 

I don't know about "ideal" but it won't hurt you.

I am just a private pilot, adopted that name when I got my license because I thought it was clever

Had to jump in on this one and say it could work out fantastic for building up cycling power. It depends more on how you do it. If you just putter along for every ride, then it could get in the way. Curious just how much riding you're planning as more specifics will depend on what you can put in. But what will likely happen is to use your friends like you're planning to keep it up in a decent aerobic level for much of the riding. Then sprinkle in some threshold and VO2 level workouts and you could see some serious power gains.

What watch for in this will be the overall training load that you're putting in. So you don't burn out. Also keep an eye on how much swimming & running you're able to do, as for most those will have to be cut back some to fit in all the biking.

I put in a lot of miles last year going into the season, going on some hilly centuries before and early on. 200-250 miles/week was fairly normal for awhile. Some short course races went well, others a bit disappointing (can't nail them all!), but I could still be breaking 25 mph ave for the bike split even with a disappointing power output.

Welcome Mojo's!!!

I am pretty low end.  I like to target 4-5, but am planning on building my biking up slow- so that really limits me.  That's what I can do!  I also hate going to the pool- and need to get back into that.  It's sooo boring.

I have a question- my husband is on my 70.3 team and has never run a HM anyone done a marathon prior to their first half?  Any thoughts on a first half relative to a marathon?  (He did qualify for Boston in his only Marathon- so he's pretty quick- just never done a half .)

Are you asking about training, or pacing during the race?

I was most curious about pace.  I have some smack talking to do :-) 

Do you know about http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/index.php/calcUsage/calculate?  For future ease, you can google mcmillan running calculator.

I'm shooting for about the same...5-7 hours plus a little strength training here and there.  I am still getting back into running pretty slowly so that limits part of it, and I can't stand more than 90 minutes down in "The Bunker" on the drainer.

Hey Gang!

Back home now and it's real cold here -- hardly at all incentiveful to returning to running.  Gee, maybe I will just have to wait until my b-day (11 more days) afterall!

My pool-of-choice is due to be reopened today after repairs since May 17, i think it was, so I no longer have to rely on a secondary (but still very decent) choice.  Things are lookin' up!

Great cross-country skiing conditions as well.....but then there's that coldness that makes it less fun than optimal.  Hmmm.

The bike is perched on the trainer and the rollers are in the corner, so those options are right at hand; just have to set about to using them!

All of that is to say that in the off-season, I don't think that in the range of 5-7 hours of cardio stuff is shabby at all; far from it, in fact.  And also this -- many very good short-course people make do with 5-7 hours of S/B/R in season, although for them it will all be high-quality workouts.

5-7 hours nowadays (i.e., winter) is great, and were I to get fully-functional asap, that's where i would be.  There'd be 2-3 swims a week, each 35-40 minutes -- about 75-110 minutes there.  Three runs a week at about 45 minutes each, for 135 minutes.  And three rides, too, at 40 (rollers) to 90 minutes (trainer), so another 200 or so minutes there.  And that would come to about seven hours, a bit shy of that.

That's with a short-course focus, a serious short-course focus, meaning that I have no plans for races that are any longer than an oly.  So if what I'm training for is my racing, there's no real reason to swim much more than 30 minutes, ride much more than 75 minutes, and run much more than 45 minutes -- give or take. 

Of course, if I love waht i'm doing, then I do more of it.  The best example of that is my open-water swims, which are seldom less than 35 minutes and often hit closer to 40.  And runs -- few less than 45, just because I love doing it.  Outside rides can easily, pleasurably, extend beyond 75 minutes.......although the torn labrum affects my comfort level on the bike some and keeps me not much over 90 minutes most of the time over the past couple of years.

So, SAMANTHA and MIKE, be very pleased if you are knocking off 5-7 hours of cardio stuff a week, as that'll be a very fine Base for whatever you get to by the time race season rolls around!

KATE -

Boy, I don't know how to approach this one --- I fear getting caught in the middle of some marital smack-talk!

I've never thought of it -- going from a marathon to a half-marathon.  And especially in his case, where his one-and-only marathon was a resounding success.  Talk about confidence-builders, heading into a first half-marathon!  Mercy!

Trying to think of your age, and his age, and sometime in the past for his marathon, and what the BQ time for him might've been.............did he do the marathon in about 3:15, or better?  If so, and if he kept the exactr same pace for the 70.3, then that would make for a 1:37 time, which is really, really solid.  I cannot imagaine too many of the teams having a runner who can do the 13.1 in that time, so I think you've got a "ringer" in him!

Depending on how long ago his BQ was and how well he has kept himself in shape -- and how serious he will be about the 70.3 -- I would think he can re-pace it so he does several minutes faster than 1:37.  It really will be re-inventing the pacing wheel for him, and if he can stay injury-free it ougta be a really sweet treat.  I mean, he'll keep thinking back on the looooooong runs for the marathon, and how crappy he could feel furing the final miles of them, and all the worries he had about "hitting the wall"...........and nothing in his training will effectively put him into those situations.  I guess he could bury himslef in some really aggressive training runs, but even then it shouldn't be like bonking along about mile 18 or so.  Gravy!   

So ----- where's the smack-taking come into this?  Is he tending to be cocky, or are you having to push him to work at it, or, or, or?

And again -- which one is it (the race), and when?

Was any of the above what you were after with your question?

Happy new year gang!  Here's a general question for the group.  If you take an OFF season, when do switch from OFF to ON?  Or do you even take an off season if you're just coming from sprinting and maybe don't feel you need one?

I've never been good at the off season/rest thing but this year I've tried to just bring my volume and intensity down working mainly on base building and very little speed work.  I plan to pick back up on the in season training about 16 weeks out from my first spring race.

How about you?

STEVE, 

It's the Boulder 70.3 (right down the street from our house.)  So we get a lot of good athletes just from the local population.  I'm pretty sure he ran a 3:10 it was two years ago and he stays in really good shape.  He's planning on doing Xterras this summer - so will be training for those.  He did one last year when I asked him to do it so I could see what it was like- and got hooked.  The race is in early August.  The smack talk is just for fun. 

They relays are a lot of fun.  I swim and am changed and can hop on my bike to go watch the bike- the pros are amazing to just watch - then see the run.  While I'm trying to like the run- not running is still a plus :-)

I struggle with the same thing. This year, since I was coming off a big race, it was easier to actually take an 'off' season. What was suggested to me and it seemed to work pretty well was to take a few weeks to just do what you want to do rather than do what's on your schedule. My daughter decided to train for her first 10K with a walk/run program so I've been doing that with her. It's been easy for me and I've enjoyed the walk breaks

Steve,

I seem to remember you wear Newtons, right? I got a pair early last year and tried them out but they didn't feel right so I put them away for a while. I didn't want to mess up anything in the middle of the season.

So I started a low key walk/run 10K program with my daughter in early December and have brought them back out. They felt much better this time around but now I'm starting to feel some pressure in my toes. I think I might need to go a size up or I was thinking it might just be the different position of my foot in this shoe. What do you think? It's not a huge problem so if it's a size issue I could wear them for a few more miles and then get a different size when I need a new pair.

Thanks!

Well, this is my first season after a couple tris in a LONG time, so it's an n=1 situation.  That said, I finished my last tri in mid-September, went light for a week and then jumped into the last 5-6 weeks of a HM program.  After that (beginning of November) have been working out steadily but not with a program or towards a specific end.  Now I'm back on a HM plan for a late Feb race.

So, no real off season, just less focused workouts (trying to have fun and some balance among the three - although I haven't been able to swim for a month until this morning 2/2 a L shoulder flare up).  I don't think burnout will be an issue for me, as I'm not going all that long (5-7 hours a week) as yet.

Now I'll get back into a structured program for a HM, then go loosey goosey for a couple weeks (still working out, just not structured) and then work toward whatever my race season shapes up to be (still looking at races/schedules - haven't locked in, as I haven't figured out the right balance of length, schedule, planetary alignment, etc...).

My training is more dictated by the races on the calendar, and I plan to pick those with a training cycle in mind (two half season, a couple A races, etc.) - so kind of a virtuous cycle. 

Matt

KATE -

Oooooo-kay.  I'll change my bold prediction some, the one in which I said there is not much of a chance any relay runner will do it in 1:37.  Um, given it's Boulder and environs.........maybe a decent chance that about 8% of the relay teams will have a pretty talented runner? 

I guess that's me, giving you permission to badger him and natter at him to get serious and staart upping his game, post-haste.  See how he responds to the gaunlet being thrown in his general direction.  Wheeeeee!  (Can you tell that in my younger days I may have been something of a fecal-disturber??

How are you feeling, post-cyst, these days?

JOHANNE -

First, sorrysorrysorry we missed connects when I was in CA.  I think there'll be a repeat visit over the next few months....but it might be more around L.A. (whcih we surprisingly really liked!).  I know you asked for details on what we did, and if I can ever get my head above water here, I'll PM you with a lowdown.

Second, FABULOUS new photo of you!  I need say no more beyond what I said before -- you really rocked that baby (and you deserve every bit of the celebratory raised arms!).

Third, those Newtons:

Go to their website and try to see if what you bought were the 2012 models, or an earlier incarnation.  I think the timing would say they're 2012 ones, in which case I believe they ran half a size small.  I think.  Actually, as I say that I'm doubting myself.  Back in the spring I tried on a pair of 12s, which is what I normally wear............and the more I think about it, the more I wonder if they ran big, and that maybe what I'm thinking about the half size stuff is that I would need an 11.5 in a 2012 model.  Hmmmm.

So, that doesn't necessarily help you much, does it?  That leaves me saying that one of the reasons Newtons have worked so well for me for five years now is that they have an ample toebox, but that doesn't explain your toe pressure -- unless the pressure comes from your toes have too much room and thus move forward in the shoe.  You think?

Another thought is that the position of the lugs just doesn't jive with where your foot should be, or where your foot is used to being in a conventional shoe.  i could probably help if I was there and could see where your forefoot and midfoot line up with respect to the lugs --- but from here I can't offer much hands-on and eyes-on help.  Oh, woe!

Have you tried playing with different lacing strategies, just on the chance that your foot is moving around too much?  There's the technique with a loop made from the last two grommet(?) holes, and the lace run thrown the loop which helps cinch the shoe more securely.  And if you have no idea what I'm talking about (admittedly the description I just gave is terrible!), then the same effect can probably be achieved with elastic laces -- which is what i use, always.

Finally, a low-key walk-run is a perfect place to get used to the Newton experience, right up there with their recommended use which involves the first several weeks of just a mile or two at a time in the Newtons.  The option to that is to put on big miles in them.........and then run the very real risk of all sorts of awful calf pain, which can easily morph into plantar fasciitis problems.  (Been there!  Done that!  Don't wish it on my worst enemies!!)

Let me know how it all proceeds with the Newtons, okay?

(Psst!  i've heard that sizing of the next new models will revert to '07-'11 standards, as will materials used.)

MATT -

Your regimen, as described in the last post on the previous page, is very similar to how I structured my off-season (really, a "not-racing" season) for many/most years.  This go-around is really my first serious departure from that time-honored protocol, and while I have had big recervations about what I'm doing......I'm mostly sticking with it.  As i've said before, we'll see where it gets me --- but whichever way it falls, i will have learned something!

I too have switched to more focused workouts as the race season approaches, with the key factors being the key races, those "A" priority sweeties.  The I get all periodisized, and that worked really well for me for many years -- until the '11 season, which was my first dedicated short-course one, and to which I took a somewhat less than serious atttude.  That is, I worked out quite hard, but with no real Build and Peak cycles -- partly because there were no "A" races that truly rose above the rest.  Same with this past season, too.  And as for the coming season ----- still nothing committed to, let alone viewed as "A" caliber. 

I love the use of "virtuous cycle"!!!

TWITCHY FOLKS: Yet another refugee from STEVE's quickly-collapsing Mojo mentoring group!

NAME: Dave

STORY:  High school swimmer and lay-er on of high jump mats (e.g. two years of track and field with no actual running). Stuck with virtually no consistent exercise regime throughout my late 20s and 30s until 40 was staring me in the face. I was goaded into trying encouraged to try Masters swimming by my female high school swimming nemesis co-captain in September 2010. Enjoyed the struggle of getting back in swimming shape and seeing regular progress and body shape improvement, but missed competing. Discovered the local triathlon scene, joined the Pittsburgh Tri Club, tried a couple of races, enjoyed the training, the gear!, and the racing, and stuck with it. Joined STEVE's mentor group last year and upgraded just about everything over my first season. Trying to figure out my goals and plans for this year.

FAMILY: Married for 17 years to Christina. Two daughters ages 12 and 11. My wife has MS and has limitations in what she can do physically, so I feel it's important to be a good example of fitness to my girls. I think it's working. My older daughter is going out for diving this winter and signed up for track in the spring. The younger one has done swimming and softball. Both of them are into gymnastics.

CURRENT TRAINING: My plan this winter was to do swim, bike, and run-focused months to coincide with the USAT National Club Championship months. The first week of December, I developed tendonitis in the long head of my bicep tendon so swimming was painful. I got treatment for that and have recovered but I didn't get in nearly the swim mileage I wanted. Renewed my TrainerRoad membership and did my FTP test today, so off to a better start in January. Looking forward to improving cycling, my weakest discipline before running headlong into marathon training in the spring.

2012 Races:  Two indoor mini-sprints (two 2nd places), first HM, couple of sprints, first Olympic (Pittsburgh), first aquathlon (3rd), first competitive OWS (1st AG).

2013 Races: Definites are Pittsburgh Marathon (first full), Pittsburgh Olympic Tri, Rock n' Roll HM, a bunch of local indoor and outdoor sprints. ???

2013 Goals: My main goal is to be better than last year. I really enjoy doing repeat races and improving on my times and placement. But I also like to try new things, so who knows? I will make sure to do 3 sanctioned races this year to get a USAT ranking. (Only did 2 sanctioned tris and one du last year).

WEIGHTLOSS: Since starting Masters, I've lost about 25-30 lbs and sort of stabilized at 180 lbs. At 6'3", I could probably race lighter. I don't really watch what I eat so much as how much. I'm betting some weight comes off in preparation for the marathon in May.

GOOD MENTEE?: STEVE? I tried to participate and be positive and supportive in our last group. I'm intrigued by the theme of speed and short distances. I enjoy the shorter races and am excited about sharing what I've learned so far and learning more.