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2011-05-18 11:41 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
Thank you all for the information.  Though you all have different ways of training, I think the biggest thing I took from all your posts is that I need to incorporate different kinds of rides into my training (like I do with running).  I need more focus.  I am going to order some more Spinervals dvds.  Any favorites? 


2011-05-18 11:51 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED

jarvy01 - 2011-05-18 12:41 PM Thank you all for the information.  Though you all have different ways of training, I think the biggest thing I took from all your posts is that I need to incorporate different kinds of rides into my training (like I do with running).  I need more focus.  I am going to order some more Spinervals dvds.  Any favorites? 

i have a high tolerance for pain, but a very short attention span, so i pick the ones that try to destroy you but dont last for more than an hour or so, how Kell-y can ride a trainer for 5 hours is beyond my comprehension skills.

 

BTW, your family is adorable!!!!

2011-05-18 11:56 AM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
Rudedog55 - 2011-05-18 12:51 PM

jarvy01 - 2011-05-18 12:41 PM Thank you all for the information.  Though you all have different ways of training, I think the biggest thing I took from all your posts is that I need to incorporate different kinds of rides into my training (like I do with running).  I need more focus.  I am going to order some more Spinervals dvds.  Any favorites? 

i have a high tolerance for pain, but a very short attention span, so i pick the ones that try to destroy you but dont last for more than an hour or so, how Kell-y can ride a trainer for 5 hours is beyond my comprehension skills.

 

BTW, your family is adorable!!!!

So what you are saying is, you and Jeff can kick each other in the nuts but only until a hot blonde walks by?

BTW, Rudy, are you coming to volunteer or spectate at Quassy?

2011-05-18 12:00 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
abqtj - 2011-05-18 12:26 PM

Artist - 2011-05-18 10:17 AM This is unusual weather for us. We have consistantly stayed well under average this year. Yeah I am bummed bad.

 

Us too (no snow here, but cooler than normal). Well, we did get a dusting a couple of weeks ago. 

But here it is May 18th and I still haven't turned on my swamp cooler and no idea when I'll need to. Maybe next week?

What is a swamp cooler?

2011-05-18 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
CubeFarmGopher - 2011-05-18 12:56 PM
Rudedog55 - 2011-05-18 12:51 PM

jarvy01 - 2011-05-18 12:41 PM Thank you all for the information.  Though you all have different ways of training, I think the biggest thing I took from all your posts is that I need to incorporate different kinds of rides into my training (like I do with running).  I need more focus.  I am going to order some more Spinervals dvds.  Any favorites? 

i have a high tolerance for pain, but a very short attention span, so i pick the ones that try to destroy you but dont last for more than an hour or so, how Kell-y can ride a trainer for 5 hours is beyond my comprehension skills.

 

BTW, your family is adorable!!!!

So what you are saying is, you and Jeff can kick each other in the nuts but only until a hot blonde walks by?

BTW, Rudy, are you coming to volunteer or spectate at Quassy?

I am racing that day Shaun, i got into the Ridgefield Sprint Tri.

i would say your above post is accurate, except i prefer brunettes or readheads.

 

PS my work email is not working today, i am not ignoring you guys. hope to be fixed soon.

2011-05-18 12:01 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED

jarvy01 - 2011-05-18 12:41 PM Thank you all for the information.  Though you all have different ways of training, I think the biggest thing I took from all your posts is that I need to incorporate different kinds of rides into my training (like I do with running).  I need more focus.  I am going to order some more Spinervals dvds.  Any favorites? 

PM me your address.  I have a few spinervals DVDs I won last year and have never used, I'll send them out to you.



2011-05-18 12:02 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
kaburns1214 - 2011-05-18 1:00 PM
abqtj - 2011-05-18 12:26 PM

Artist - 2011-05-18 10:17 AM This is unusual weather for us. We have consistantly stayed well under average this year. Yeah I am bummed bad.

 

Us too (no snow here, but cooler than normal). Well, we did get a dusting a couple of weeks ago. 

But here it is May 18th and I still haven't turned on my swamp cooler and no idea when I'll need to. Maybe next week?

What is a swamp cooler?

 

always wanted to do this...hehe

let me google that for you

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=swamp+cooler



Edited by Rudedog55 2011-05-18 12:03 PM
2011-05-18 12:18 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
Rudedog55 - 2011-05-18 12:51 PM

jarvy01 - 2011-05-18 12:41 PM Thank you all for the information.  Though you all have different ways of training, I think the biggest thing I took from all your posts is that I need to incorporate different kinds of rides into my training (like I do with running).  I need more focus.  I am going to order some more Spinervals dvds.  Any favorites? 

i have a high tolerance for pain, but a very short attention span, so i pick the ones that try to destroy you but dont last for more than an hour or so, how Kell-y can ride a trainer for 5 hours is beyond my comprehension skills.

 BTW, your family is adorable!!!!

Thank you

Your s/b/r totals are impressive this month.  Great job meeting the goals you'd set for yourself!!

2011-05-18 12:19 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
kaburns1214 - 2011-05-18 1:01 PM

jarvy01 - 2011-05-18 12:41 PM Thank you all for the information.  Though you all have different ways of training, I think the biggest thing I took from all your posts is that I need to incorporate different kinds of rides into my training (like I do with running).  I need more focus.  I am going to order some more Spinervals dvds.  Any favorites? 

PM me your address.  I have a few spinervals DVDs I won last year and have never used, I'll send them out to you.

Awesome!  I'll Paypal you the $ for shipping if you want. 

2011-05-18 12:50 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
kaburns1214 - 2011-05-18 11:00 AM
abqtj - 2011-05-18 12:26 PM

Artist - 2011-05-18 10:17 AM This is unusual weather for us. We have consistantly stayed well under average this year. Yeah I am bummed bad.

 

Us too (no snow here, but cooler than normal). Well, we did get a dusting a couple of weeks ago. 

But here it is May 18th and I still haven't turned on my swamp cooler and no idea when I'll need to. Maybe next week?

What is a swamp cooler?

Great thing to have in low humidity climates like ours. Cost less to run than an air conditioner. We haven't even uncovered ours yet. They are also called an evaporative cooler.
2011-05-18 1:10 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED

Yeah, swamp cooler is the "term" for an evaporative cooler.

Basically, it's a giant drum fan, water source, pump, and water pads. It pumps water to drip over the pads, keeping them wet, the fan blows (or in my case, pulls) air over the pads and in to the duct work. You are basically adding moisture to the air, thus cooling it (think misting systems).

They work great and are VERY efficient in low humidity places. But they only cool down about 20 degrees or so. When we get really hot days of 100+, it's toasty inside for a short time. Most years aren't bad, but last year was a scorcher.

Nice part is anyone can work on them and you can replace virtually every moving part in them for a few hundred dollars. Compare that to refrigerated air and it's a fraction of the cost.



2011-05-18 1:28 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED

jarvy01 - 2011-05-18 12:41 PM Thank you all for the information.  Though you all have different ways of training, I think the biggest thing I took from all your posts is that I need to incorporate different kinds of rides into my training (like I do with running).  I need more focus.  I am going to order some more Spinervals dvds.  Any favorites? 

Spinervals Time Trail 2.0 is a good one.  I have another one that is 2 hours I think called Mental Toughness, it's good too.

I'd also recommend checking out Sufferfest.  You can download for about $10 each, and their first one called "The Downward Spiral" is killer!  Plus I like the music and sense of humor of the guys there.

2011-05-18 1:30 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED

I used to used spinervals all the time before I got my CT, even sometimes not to change it up.

My favorites all time "Time Trialapalooza" and the real "Tuscon" rides, both are amazingly hard, but real ride DVD's are alot more scenic.  You need to add "Aero Base Builder" DVDs in for recoveries.  "Have Mercy" was amazing, but holding squats after an hour of hard riding was more than I care to do again.

Check ebay for deals on used DVDs if you find you like them.

2011-05-18 2:40 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
CubeFarmGopher - 2011-05-18 11:22 AM
jsklarz - 2011-05-18 11:17 AM

Rudy focues on bike racing an Kelly is trying to KQ and races long course/IMs.  Long Course tri is MUCH more bike focused. 

My view is that whether you ride 3x (minumum) or 6x week, the workouts should include: a long ride (preferrably with hills) of at least a few mile more than the distance you intend to ride in a race (aerobic/muscular endurance and confidence); an interval ride (increase power) and tempo ride (establish pacing/HR).  Recovery can be doing nothing, or, as kelly said, an easy ride.  I like doign a "recovery ride" the evening after a long run session.  My legs always feel way better monday if i do a 30 minute spin sunday night.

Rudy gave some good workouts for the trainer.  I find it hard to go strictly by HR on the trainer.  After speaking with Rudy i've been going by gearing and speed (essentially as a proxy for power) since i do not have a power meter. 

I strongly disagree that trainer rides are as good as outside.  The effect of gravity and wind cannot be replicated. If your races are hilly you need to ride hills.

Do you have a power profile document for your trainer?

I've been looking for one for my Cycleops fluid but I figure that another fluid trainer should be similar in resistance.

i have a KK road machine.  never looked for the profile

2011-05-18 3:04 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
carrie639 - 2011-05-18 2:30 PM

I used to used spinervals all the time before I got my CT, even sometimes not to change it up.

My favorites all time "Time Trialapalooza" and the real "Tuscon" rides, both are amazingly hard, but real ride DVD's are alot more scenic.  You need to add "Aero Base Builder" DVDs in for recoveries.  "Have Mercy" was amazing, but holding squats after an hour of hard riding was more than I care to do again.

Check ebay for deals on used DVDs if you find you like them.

Aren't those squats fun!!!  And then you have to get back on the bike and continue on...

2011-05-18 3:15 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
Would a tough spin class be any substitute for the bike when there are NO hills to practice on? Thoughts?


2011-05-18 3:33 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED

DDVMM - 2011-05-18 4:15 PM Would a tough spin class be any substitute for the bike when there are NO hills to practice on? Thoughts?

yes - but dont do jumps or "position two".  stay in the saddle and occassionally stand up to stretch.  spinning is a great aeobic workout and can be made bike specific with a good instructor or by doing your own thing.  i spin less now, but during the winter i spin at least 2x a week as the bordom of the trainer kills me.

 

2011-05-18 3:38 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
jsklarz - 2011-05-18 4:33 PM

DDVMM - 2011-05-18 4:15 PM Would a tough spin class be any substitute for the bike when there are NO hills to practice on? Thoughts?

yes - but dont do jumps or "position two".  stay in the saddle and occassionally stand up to stretch.  spinning is a great aeobic workout and can be made bike specific with a good instructor or by doing your own thing.  i spin less now, but during the winter i spin at least 2x a week as the bordom of the trainer kills me.

 

The problem I have with spin classes is that I can never get the bike to be situated right so it ends up using muscles that are not conducive to training consistently.  Is it good for an every-now-and-then aerobic change?  Sure.  Should it be your primary manner of bike training?  Not unless you are doing an indoor tri on a spin bike.

The best kind of spin classes are the ones where you bring your own bike and hook it up to a computrainer in the room but I don't know how many of those places are around.

There are a couple ways to do power training for hills on a flat course (you learn these quickly in Florida).  The first is to wear very loose clothing and ride sitting up into a strong wind.  The other is to put your bike into the hardest gear you can turn ~60-70rpm and do short intervals for power.

2011-05-18 5:35 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
CubeFarmGopher - 2011-05-18 4:38 PM
jsklarz - 2011-05-18 4:33 PM

DDVMM - 2011-05-18 4:15 PM Would a tough spin class be any substitute for the bike when there are NO hills to practice on? Thoughts?

yes - but dont do jumps or "position two".  stay in the saddle and occassionally stand up to stretch.  spinning is a great aeobic workout and can be made bike specific with a good instructor or by doing your own thing.  i spin less now, but during the winter i spin at least 2x a week as the bordom of the trainer kills me.

 

The problem I have with spin classes is that I can never get the bike to be situated right so it ends up using muscles that are not conducive to training consistently.  Is it good for an every-now-and-then aerobic change?  Sure.  Should it be your primary manner of bike training?  Not unless you are doing an indoor tri on a spin bike.

The best kind of spin classes are the ones where you bring your own bike and hook it up to a computrainer in the room but I don't know how many of those places are around.

There are a couple ways to do power training for hills on a flat course (you learn these quickly in Florida).  The first is to wear very loose clothing and ride sitting up into a strong wind.  The other is to put your bike into the hardest gear you can turn ~60-70rpm and do short intervals for power.

All very good points.  I never really thought about the seat position and use of different muscles in spin vs. being on your bike.  But your right, it is very different.  I guess the advantage I see to spin class or using a trainer vs. riding outside (for me) is indoor is a constant effort the entire time.  Outside (again for me), with the hills around here I'm getting a lot of breaks on the downhills.  But that's the terrain I'm racing as well...

I try to ride outside as much as possible, but have started swapping one week night outdoor ride for a spin class to have that hard steady effort ride that I really like.

2011-05-18 6:06 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED

I can't figure out where to log VACUUMING. 

Damn dogs and their fur everywhere, I swear this is more of a work out than the 4.45 mile run I did earlier.

2011-05-18 6:06 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED

I can't figure out where to log VACUUMING. 

Damn dogs and their fur everywhere, I swear this is more of a work out than the 4.45 mile run I did earlier.



2011-05-18 6:36 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
abqtj - 2011-05-18 7:06 PM

I can't figure out where to log VACUUMING.  how to post correctly without repeating myself.

Damn dogs and their fur everywhere, I swear this is more of a work out than the 4.45 mile run I did earlier.

FTFY

2011-05-18 6:41 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
kaburns1214 - 2011-05-18 8:58 AM
With the bike, like anything else, consistency is the key.  I take a alightly different approach than Rudy does on riding (if you'll notice, Rudy has no recovery rides, and I think those play a big role in gaining bike fitness).

I generally bike 5 times per week. 

Tuesday is a speed/force day (if force is your limiter BSTs may be a good training tool for you)

Thursday is a tempo day (usually a 2 hour ride with 2 x 20" at my Z2 / Friel Z3)

Friday is a recovery ride (90 minutes at my ZR / Friel Z1)

Saturday is long (5+ hours at My Z1/Z2 / Friels Z2/Z3)

Sunday is recovery with some Tabata intervals mixed in.

What you need to remember is that if you so all hard work all the time your body doesn't have a chance to adapt and get stronger (you get stronger while you're resting rather than when you're training).  When I do recovery rides (like recovery runs) they're SUPER easy -- in the 14 mph range.  You really want to make sure that you take you easy days easy so tha your hard days can be REALLY hard.



Yeah, gonna have to go with the Big Dog on this one. I feel, VERY STRONGLY, that super easy, low effort rides are a complete waste of time and provide no physiological advantage or adaptation nor do they "allow" fitness to "set in". It's impossible to have "junk" yardage in the pool or "junk" miles on the run, it is very possible to have "junk" miles on the bike and any Zone 1 work is just that. They only time a super easy ride is fine is coming off a big training block or if you are out with a group, or just need to take a day easy but they really should not be part of a plan. I ride 100% of the time at my IM effort or greater. I agree that easy days should be easy, but when it comes to the bike, far too many people ride far too easy far too often and fool themselves that they are building fitness, unless you are a true newbie and have little cycling experience or fitness. My advice, especially considering limited time to train, do some kind of work every time you are on the saddle.
2011-05-18 8:41 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
bryancd - 2011-05-18 7:41 PM
kaburns1214 - 2011-05-18 8:58 AM With the bike, like anything else, consistency is the key.  I take a alightly different approach than Rudy does on riding (if you'll notice, Rudy has no recovery rides, and I think those play a big role in gaining bike fitness).

I generally bike 5 times per week. 

Tuesday is a speed/force day (if force is your limiter BSTs may be a good training tool for you)

Thursday is a tempo day (usually a 2 hour ride with 2 x 20" at my Z2 / Friel Z3)

Friday is a recovery ride (90 minutes at my ZR / Friel Z1)

Saturday is long (5+ hours at My Z1/Z2 / Friels Z2/Z3)

Sunday is recovery with some Tabata intervals mixed in.

What you need to remember is that if you so all hard work all the time your body doesn't have a chance to adapt and get stronger (you get stronger while you're resting rather than when you're training).  When I do recovery rides (like recovery runs) they're SUPER easy -- in the 14 mph range.  You really want to make sure that you take you easy days easy so tha your hard days can be REALLY hard.

Yeah, gonna have to go with the Big Dog on this one. I feel, VERY STRONGLY, that super easy, low effort rides are a complete waste of time and provide no physiological advantage or adaptation nor do they "allow" fitness to "set in". It's impossible to have "junk" yardage in the pool or "junk" miles on the run, it is very possible to have "junk" miles on the bike and any Zone 1 work is just that. They only time a super easy ride is fine is coming off a big training block or if you are out with a group, or just need to take a day easy but they really should not be part of a plan. I ride 100% of the time at my IM effort or greater. I agree that easy days should be easy, but when it comes to the bike, far too many people ride far too easy far too often and fool themselves that they are building fitness, unless you are a true newbie and have little cycling experience or fitness. My advice, especially considering limited time to train, do some kind of work every time you are on the saddle.

Here's the QT2 theory:

Take The Easy Days Easy - When you have planned a recovery day (which should be 2-3 per week when doing best effort sessions), make sure you do not exceed 80% of your threshold heart rate during your workouts that day. If you go too hard on these days, you fatigue, and don't allow proper recovery of your peripheral systems. This will limit stimulation of your core systems on the next best effort workout due to residual fatigue. This sub-par performance during your key day typically results in testing yourself on the next recovery day which begins a nasty cycle of gray, middle type training. Make the hard days hard, and the easy days VERY easy.

 

Make the Hard Days Hard - Your hard days should be VERY hard. That is, at a sustainable best effort. Remember, #2 above still applies here. Therefore, if you set out to do 1 mile repeats, do them at the best possible effort (pace) you can sustain for all 5 repeats. If you pace your workout properly, the last repeat should be run at an all out effort but result in a time/pace equal, or slightly faster than the previous 4.

2011-05-18 9:53 PM
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Subject: RE: kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED
Yeah, I know and I am not a fan of their protocol. I think it's fine as an exercise program however I find it lacking as racing program. It's also great for posting a lot of training volume but it's lacking in quality volume. A well trained athlete should be able to complete workouts on a regular basis above 80% threshold. It's not a challenging bar to overcome. The concept of multiple days of this sort of training is not effective for the time constrained AG'er looking to maximize their training time. In my experience, as a top AG'er and understanding the training protocols of other top AG'ers, in regards to the bike, low zone work is for people looking to loose weight and become acclimated to training on the bike. Top AG'ers do not train that way.

Kel, I can promise you the gal's you need to beat are not riding 2x per week in Zone 1. I can also say they are not riding 5x per week, they are riding 3-4 with better quality and then working their run and swim.

Edited by bryancd 2011-05-18 9:59 PM
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