Ernesto's group - CLOSED (Page 34)

On Jan 28, 2011, in the last session of this mentoring group, I said:

"I can't manage yet to swim more than 75 yards without stopping and gasping for breath."

In this last week, less than 5 months later in open water, I swam 1650 yards in sets, 2000 yards continuously, and tonight 2800 yards continuously.  Slow as Grandma Moses, mind you, but I can do the distance and feel like I can keep going.

So, I give you all hope!!  Keep on keepin' on.

Thanks Jackie, fantastic improvement! Are you sure you're not a former swimming pro...? I wish I could make some progress in any of those sports at the fraction of your rate! Oh, well, there's hope...

You've stayed faithful through ups and downs and consistent, your payoff is an exponential growth in fitness since the first time I met you. Congratulations Jackie, the sky is the limit!

Dude! you have been a great help and a patient mentor. I appreciate your honesty and concern but please dont think that you could feel responsible for any other than my small achievements over the season, Ive come a long way since I started in your group..  plus I really do want to avoid any further complications with my knee, here is my plan, I want to start the 12 week trainning and in a month from now I will step back to see the progress of the injury.. and stop at the smallest glance of it not improving. I really feel bad cause I havent done any race in the year not even with the mountain bike.

A good option is that the same race event on Sep has an Oly distance competition as well, and if I need to pospone, no problem Ill fine something early next year, Im stubborn but not dead stubborn..  what do you think?  how do I plan my 12 weeks?  

I think your swim speed is pretty decent. Hope I can get anywhere close to it by the times its time for my Oly. Not to mention your aerobic run performance. Man! you are doing better than China's forgein currency reserves.

Dude! you have been a great help and a patient mentor. I appreciate your honesty and concern but please dont think that you could feel responsible for any other than my small achievements over the season, Ive come a long way since I started in your group..  plus I really do want to avoid any further complications with my knee, here is my plan, I want to start the 12 week trainning and in a month from now I will step back to see the progress of the injury.. and stop at the smallest glance of it not improving. I really feel bad cause I havent done any race in the year not even with the mountain bike.

A good option is that the same race event on Sep has an Oly distance competition as well, and if I need to pospone, no problem Ill fine something early next year, Im stubborn but not dead stubborn..  what do you think?  how do I plan my 12 weeks?  

Well, don't start the twelve weeks now, start an aerobic base for 4 weeks at least. Swimming at this point is not critical but you do want to bike and run at aerobic effort (maintain 180-AGE HR at all cost) for increasingly greater periods. Start with two to three mile runs, ten mile rides and train five/six days a week. If ANY pain comes back, stop immediately. Starting a 12 week program right now would be insane without the base, we're talking a very dense training regime here... You're coming from quite a bit of inactivity. 

Jackie- Way to go on your swim!!!!  AWESOME!!!

Ernesto and Everyone- I went out for another run today.  I am using a plan based on periodization.  I has a "PREP" phase before base.  It is a short period that I feel I fit into right now.  According to it I should run 60min/ 90min alternating days. I used a zone below my threshold today.  It put my max at 136.  My LT is  142 base off of the 180 formula.  I actually had success with it.  I included the garmin link.  I think my stress with trying to run slow may had spiked my heart rate up yesterday.  Since every time my watched beeped I knew I was going ANAEROBIC.  Today I knew I had a few beats before it got that high so I could mentally relax and just enjoy conditioning my body.  You can see the results.  You can also tell that at I leave the beach I take a steep but short climb....  even walking it spikes my heart rate!

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/93956266

Ernesto.  What is your opinion on multiple workouts a day during this period?

Jakie,

Great work, Im not even near you in the swim, but i have done some improvements, hope to be at least close to your level,,..  some day.

To all

Ok technical question to those who ride or run under sun and high temperatures, does anyone get their nose like very dry that it makes it very hard to breath an even if you blow your nose nothing and then you start to breath with your mouth and then your troath gets dry? I have tried lotion and vaseline and its the same, first I tougth that I needed to drink more water but didnt really help, any ideas?

Perhaps someone can post some additional detail for the group regarding the differences between LT (Lactate Threshold) / AT (Anaerobic Threshold) and MAF (Maximum Aerobic Function).

My understanding is that LT or AT is the point where one goes completely Anaerobic - and that MAF is an estimate of ones optimal training point as formulated by Dr. Maffetone.  One goes from completely aerobic to varying degrees of aerobic and anaerobic as their HR increases.  I think from my reading that the MAF is probably heavy on aerobic function but would include some anaerobic function as well.

I ask the question because I honestly don't know how the MAF correlates to one's AT or LT and also think that as the members here progress and use different training methodologies we could all benefit from understanding the varying terminology.

Thoughts?

Try to control your HR, even if it means walking up a hill or steep section. I always thought that only us amateurs would be forced to walk until I saw a video with former three time Ironman World Champion Peter Reid where he explained that doing base training, sometimes he would have to walk for long periods to get the HR in the numbers that he was pursuing.

If they (pros) can do it, we sure can too. No shame on it.

You seem to be always comparing the 5 zones table with Maffetonne's MAF when in reality there's no black and white to be defined. You will NEVER be completely aerobic or completely anaerobic at ANY pace. The "MAF" pace is nothing but an imaginary line where according to the respiratory quotient table (expelled gases) your fuel usage is in a good balance, right below the tipping point where you will create more lactic acid than your body can buffer.

Therefore the term MAF (maximum aerobic function), it is the most you can get out of your body, without creating more lactate than you can eliminate.

The five zones is just another way to break it down. Plain and simple. We don't need to get much more technical than that, everybody needs aerobic work and (some) anaerobic work.

Thanks Alfredo. 

I'm not an expert, but it sounds like low electrolytes to me.  I love water and it is my drink of choice all day long.  But, I have found that when it is really hot, I need to drink more Gatorade or Heed or something like that instead of water.  It also helped me to drink some BEFORE and AFTER my ride or run, not just during it.  I also use saline spray in my nose every day and if it's really dry I put some vaseline in it before I go to bed.

Also, eat more fish!  Fish oil helps with dry eyes and nose.  You can use supplements, but what you get from your diet is the best.

Jen, I know what you mean about worrying about moving into anaerobic.  But if I understand Ernesto from a subsequent post, it's not an on/off thing.  The edges are a little fuzzy and hitting the mark on the Garmin doesn't flip a switch that puts you anaerobic.  I have my max set at 137 based on race age, though I won't be 43 until later this year.  I find in mile 1 I hit the max quickly and it usually takes two warning tones of walking before I'm back under 137.  But, I rarely go above 139.  In mile 2, I hit the max less frequently, and can usually recover within one warning tone.  Mile three is different because by then I'm along a path by a bayou with gentle hills.  Here I hit max whenever I go uphill, my bpm goes higher (up to 144 if I'm not paying attention) and it takes a bit longer to recover.

My worry is that when it's all said and done, the summary on the BT training log shows I'm still 30-35% anaerobic per run, and I'm not sure if that's the right target.  Jen, I didn't see that kind of summary on the Garmin link you provided.  I looked at your logs but perhaps you aren't uploading the Garmin results straight to BT, so I couldn't tell what percentage you were in aerobic/anaerobic.

Ernesto, can you validate what I'm saying?  I'd also appreciate if you could take a peek at some of my runs to see if I am getting the right results.  Yes I KNOW I've been training inconsistently and need more running per week.  But in the days that I am doing the slow pace, am I achieving the HR balance I should be?  The average is always below max, but I know time in the zone (so to speak) counts a lot.

Thanks,

Mike

I couldn't care less about what my log says about percentage spent below or above my MAF, as long as I get value out of my workout and steady improvement, I'm a happy camper. 

About execution, it seems you're going too hard when you're running and then walk to get the HR down, maybe you should try to jog even slower and maintain the rythm without having to walk that much. You're keeping the HR where it has to be though, and that's what matters the most.

Mike, & Ernesto

Thank you for your input on it.  I understand I am not going anaerobic the second that the watch beeps but mentally I was thinking ..."oh no".  My MAF is 142.  I am averaging significantly below that and today's run was even a bit faster.  I have my Garmin in Zones and I've been running in a zone 3 with a max heart rate of 136...   I know that I can go up to Zone 4.5 and I'm still only at a HR of 140.  

So my question is....  Am I running to slow?  I walk the hills both out and back and I try not to let my HR drop too much before I increase my pace again.  After today, my HR average was at 135, that's 7 beats below my MAF....

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/94143840

Ok, I have it there as well.  In your opinion have I been running to slow?

As for the stairs, last time I did them I had to stop because my legs were shaking so badly.  We will see how I feel....

Chris, I think you ought to make your response above part of your signature.  I'm still LMAO.

-Mike

Yeah Chris... Forgot to mention.. Glad your health is good!!

So, I didn't run today but I did go out to the Manhattan Beach Sand Dunes and walk the stairs.  I did 2080!!  That is ten times up!!!  I went with a friend and we usually do 8.  We decided to push for 9 then we thought about it..."who stops at 9" so up we went again!!!!  All was good till the final section and you feel the burn, your legs are shacking but ten more steps and your done (we double step so there is more reach and pull).  We made it...  Great feeling out there... gonna miss So Cal!! 

I'd post a pic but I don't know how to do that on here...  They are on facebook though, you can get an idea of the climb...  the stairs zig zag so no complete shots!

Oh believe me.  You don't get to be a 48 male  in our country without having your fair share of exams like that.   And they checked out ok and were as fun as they sound.  

Today I ran .8 miles before my Garmin died.   Don't know how much longer after that.   Not very interesting terrain, but if you zoom out you'll see it's a change in venue. 

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/94399614

G

Hey Chris! isn't this close to your place? I wouldn't miss watching this race for nothing!!!

http://www.star-events.cc/site/en/trstmnnews