Gray Guys/Girls Master's Focus Triathlon Mentor Group--CLOSED (Page 34)

Absolutely 100% agree with this. I despise these tests....told my coach that putting another 20 min test on my schedule would be the end of out relationship.

Sorry I have been absent. Been following along. Did sprints the last 2 Saturdays so the season is up and going down here on the Gulf Coast. Had good results and need to get race reports done. Summary for both races: Crappy swim, solid bike and good run. Hope everyone is doing well. 

Sorry this is late - work issues.

Here are the current points for the Weight Loss/Workout Challenge.

Tom this does include the two weeks you reported.

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Steve I - A pretty interesting article in Slowtwitch.  I agree with the author, I know what the risks are and my goal is to be as healthy as possible for as long as possible.  At any time I could have an accident.  I do what I can to be careful/defensive but I am going to enjoy myself as long as I can.

Scott - Today in my "Swim Fit" class it was a heavy focus on IM, kicking, breaststroke and tech set.  Then all too little time for a Main set then cool down.  We're working with a new coach and he seems pretty decent but he's a swimmer not a triathlete and I feel I am not gaining anything.  I would like to think that I could swim a faster 1000m TT this early in the season but I'm afraid I am slower not faster.  I just wanted to ask if I am right in thinking that I should be doing more speed sets, main sets and more focus on freestyle rather than fly, back, and breaststroke at this time - in prep for the race season?  If I am wrong what should I be focusing on (besides maintaining good form)?

Steve - Are you involved in the Wenatchee Marathon at all?  A lady I swim with has gone down and will be running tomorrow.  I had a look at the website and it looks like a good run.  Maybe I'll put it on my bucket list.  The fellow I workout with wants me to run the Portland Marathon with him next year.  He wants to qualify for Boston in time to run it for his 70th birthday.  For me it would just be nice to finish a Marathon having only been running a short time.

Pretty easy week for me so far, very lazy but tomorrow its a 40K bike ride and a slow :22 minute run immediately after.  What is everyone else up to this weekend?  I still have 7 weeks to my first event of the year.

After our swim at the local Rec Centre we went over to Okanagan Lake and out of curiosity I waded in to my knees with a thermometer and took a reading.  The water was really cold and if my thermometer is accurate it was 10C or 50F.  We won't be going into the lake for a fair while yet.  

Just a drive by post  For those who remember when I said last fall  signed up for a new HM that went through a battle reenactment....It was epic.  Very tough course that my achilles balked at--but way too cool to run past battle reenactments in 2 separate areas.  First one around mile 4 was Civil War and second one around mile 10 was Revolutionary.  I was greeted by 4 men on horseback who offered me a ride (unfortunately all going the opposite direction from the finish line)

Best medal ever.  It's b used off a Civil War Medal of Honor and is as big as my hand.  The 5K runners got one about 2 inches in diameter but otherwise the same.

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• +5 points for no weight gain
• +1 points for 1 pound lost
• +23.7 point for 712 workout minutes
• Total: 29.7 points

I have my first half-marathon in two weeks. Yesterday I ran 13.5 miles just to practice my pacing and to see how it would go. I did a run/walk with 60 seconds running at 9 min/mile pace and 40 seconds walking at 15 min/mile pace - which works out to about 11 min/mile pace. It worked well. I was pretty tired at the end but nothing was hurting. I can probably go a little faster (less walking) in the HM.

Scott I.

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"You aren't old until age becomes your excuse." Joe Friel

Hey George,

Sorry I didn't answer this sooner.  Seems like the past week has just been absolutely crazy!

Anyway, back in the day, I swam breaststroke, freestyle, and the individual medley.  That meant I got to train in all four strokes.  When I became a triathlete, I found myself only swimming freestyle in races so I stopped training anything but freestyle.  Yes, I occasionally will swim a few laps of backstroke - my safety stroke, but my workouts are freestyle and only freestyle.

Remember that we are triathletes.  We aren't swimmers.  Following what swimmers do in workout can be largely counter-productive as we do not have the same performance goals that the typical swimmer has.

I should say there are a number of triathlon coaches that advocate learning and swimming all four competitive strokes and basically mimicking what a swimmer's workout looks like.  I respectfully disagree with that training philosophy.   It is not uncommon for the average age-group triathlete to already be short of training time; why take away more valuable training time doing a stroke they are not going to use on race day?  I hear the argument that training in the other strokes will make your freestyle faster.  I am here to tell you, based upon literally millions of meters swimming all four strokes, if you want to get faster in freestyle, you need to swim freestyle.  Doing a breaststroke set is not going to help your freestyle, doing a dolphin kick set is not going to help your freestyle.

If you want to swim fast in a particular stroke, learn that stroke, master the technique for that stroke, and swim.  Then swim some more.  When you are done doing that, swim some more. Then you will begin to get fast.  Note there wasn't much there about drills, kick sets, or fins; if you want to swim fast, then swim.

As to swimming fast in workout, again, that is what swimmers do.  Let's think about this for a moment.  The most common event a swimmer is likely to swim is a 50, 100, or 200 (for the longer freestyle events what I am about to say is even more true as they would  normally only do the one event in a day).  They hit the water, swim anaerobically for 25 seconds to maybe a few minutes, then they get out of the water and recover - often for several hours, before their next event.  Contrast that to what we triathletes do; we get in the water and swim maybe 10-45 minutes for a Sprint triathlon; as long as 50-90 minutes or more for a full Ironman swim.  Then we get out of the water, and instead of rest, we get on a bike and ride, sometimes for 6 or more hours; after-which we cool down with a little run, maybe as long as 26.2 miles.  We DO NOT have the luxury of starting our day with an anaerobic swim!  With that in mind, it makes little sense to train like a swimmer who CAN swim anaerobically.

That is not to say that working on speed is not important, rather that speed work has its time and place.  For triathletes, the key pace is threshold pace (Swim Threshold Pace - STP).  If you swim faster than STP, or anaerobically, you begin to enter into acidosis and your body will, within a couple of minutes, force you to slow down.  Yet, we already know you will be swimming for a minimum of 10 minutes in the shortest race so why would you attempt to swim at a pace you know you can't maintain?  If you swim slower than STP you are not swimming to your full potential.  Therefore, the pace we need to improve is our threshold pace.  You do that by swimming at STP (+/- 3-5 seconds) with PERFECT technique.

A very general approach to swim training leading up to an 'A' triathlon might look something like this:

Base Phase (12-24 weeks) - Build total volume to 1.5-2.0 times race swim distance per workout main set, built around 100's and/or 200's at STP+5/100 with 30 seconds rest.  Establishes and improves aerobic endurance base.

Build Phase (4-8 weeks) - Build volume to 2.0-2.5 times race swim distance per workout main set, built around 50's and or 100's at STP/100 with 20 seconds rest.  Final two weeks of build phase drop rest interval to 10 seconds.  Continues to build aerobic endurance base and begins to develop speed.

Prep/Taper Phase (3-5 weeks) - Volume backs off to 1.0-1.5 time race swim distance per workout main set, built around 50's or 100's at STP-3/100 with 10 seconds rest.  Further develops speed, improves lactate clearance, and raises VO2 max.

It only takes 4-6 weeks to develop maximum speed related to your aerobic base.  Spending anymore time than that is a waste of time.  Yes, speed work improves lactate clearance and raises VO2 max, but we aren't EVER swimming that hard in a race.  If you do, you will simply explode on race day.  It is true that there are athletes that will be mildly anaerobic in a Sprint triathlon and the occasional Olympic triathlon, but those athletes are the rare exception, not the rule.

As to your 1,000 TT.  If you want to get faster in a 1,000 TT you need to improve your threshold pace.  Do four weeks of what I described above for the base phase followed by four weeks of the build phase, strictly following pacing guidelines, and I can all but guarantee you will see a profound improvement.

Here is an article from my website describing what STP is - http://triathlonswimcoach.com/index.php/en/resources/2014-11-30-20-43-15/ct-menu-item-3/84-swim-threshold-pace-what-is-it

And here is an article describing how to determine your STP - http://triathlonswimcoach.com/index.php/en/resources/2014-11-30-20-43-15/ct-menu-item-3/75-how-to-determine-swim-threshold-pace

Hope that helps!

Excellent info Scott!  And, you weren't slow responding.  I only posted the question on Friday.  I'm not sure when I'll be able to arrange to test myself but I will do it PDQ.  I'm swimming 1:15 tomorrow and I'm looking forward to it.  I've been aiming for 2500m for each swim but I'm only swimming closer to 2100m per swim (swimming mostly 1:00 but increasing it to 1:15 and eventually 1:30).

I remember reading about the STP info from a while back but I had forgotten about it.

Hi Deb,

You have 15-weeks remaining.  I would break it down to 6-weeks base, 8-weeks build, and 1-week race-prep/taper.

For the base I would switch over to the Sweet-Spot Base-Low Volume II.  That conveniently is a 6-week plan that strives to get the "biggest bang for the buck" by confining your efforts into the 'sweet-spot' power zone.

As you go in to the build phase you want your workouts to begin to become more race specific so the immediate question is, "Are there hills on your Olympic bike course?"

If there are significant hills on the bike course, I would move to the Climbing Road Race-Low Volume build plan.  That plan lasts 8-weeks.

If there are not any significant hills, I would move to the Sustained Power Build-Low Volume plan.  That plan is also 8-weeks long.

At the end of the build phase you will have a week left for a taper before your 'A' race.

For all of the plans, I would substitute an outdoor long ride for the weekend long ride whenever possible.

By doing what I suggested you will build some of the bike fitness you missed out on by focusing on the HM.  Then when you start the build phase, you will have sufficient base to achieve the workout goals without danger of overtraining due to lack of appropriate base.

A little clarification on the taper.  The BIKE taper will only be a week which should be sufficient as you won't be doing mega volume. You might consider cutting the long ride in half in the last build week if it would make you more confident.  I would certainly start my run taper two-weeks out by lowering volume but keeping intensity high.  The swim taper, the same as the run, two-weeks out, volume down, intensity high.

Just my humble two cents.

Good luck!  Hope that helps.

Weight Loss:

Working out    5.8 hours = 11.6 points

No Weight Gain             =  5 points

No weight loss again!

Total                             = 16.6 points

This last week was my recovery week but it was both my slowest week and, by far, my hardest week for training to date.  I was exhausted, stiff and sore all week and I only worked out 5.8 hours.  I have a new respect for the importance/necessity to take recovery weeks seriously.

This morning my resting HR was modestly elevated and in the pool I had trouble warming up and my HR was somewhat elevated as well so I slowed down and swam shorter sets (50/100m) and more 30 sec rest breaks.  I swam a lot less than usual but I felt I swam with better form and really felt pretty good for the swimming I did.  I also avoided anything to do with Fly, back or breaststroke.

Not to be argumentative, rather to present a slightly different view, and I am not so sure if Scott I. was presenting a plan or just presenting the availability of a plan on TR  Either way, here are a couple things to consider.

The idea of specificity in training becomes more important the closer you get to your event.  What that means is that as your event draws closer, you want your training to look more and more like the event.  With that in mind, you said, "My biggest weakness is hill climbing," which implies that there are hills on the Olympic course.  The first thing you need to do is determine if indeed there are hills on the course and if so, the nature of the climb(s).  Is it one little hill, or is it similar to the Alpe d'Huez from Tour de France fame - 8.1 miles, average grade 8.1% with a max grade of over 13%.

Once you have determined the nature of any hills on the course, you are in a position to make decisions regarding your training.  If there are significant hills, the theory of specificity says you should be training for hills - you want the training to look more like your race.  On the other hand, if there are no hills, again using the theory of specificity, you would want your training to look like the race, which would be long, steady state riding.- which is why I suggested the Sustained Power Build.

Now, to take it a step further, and again, not trying to be argumentative, just presenting things to think about.  If you read the blog article that Scott I. presented, it talks about building a significant base and build BEFORE you start the plan:

We recommend that riders precede most of these blocks with a Sustained Power Build (Olympic, Half & Full Distance) but the General Build block could be an equally good fit for Sprint & Olympic-distance triathletes.

Ideally, these Build blocks would be preceded by 6-12 weeks of Traditional or Sweet Spot Base training, but this is dependent upon your planning and the amount of time available prior to your event date(s).

Their recommendation is for 20-weeks of base/build before the specialty block, which you did not have the opportunity to do while you were focused on your HM.  Normally, using the theory of periodization, a season will be broken down something like this:

• Prep (4-8 wks) - training to train, drills, strength training, organized classes (yoga, spin, etc.), early aerobic base work
• Base (12-24 wks) - building aerobic base, some strength work, some organized classes (yoga, spin, etc.)
• Build (4-8 wks) - continuing to build aerobic base, starting to develop speed, beginning to become more race specific towards end of phase, develop nutrition plan
• Race Prep (4-6 wks) - training looks like race
• Taper (1-2 wks) - resting mind and body as you make final preparations for race

You are coming to the party around the beginning to middle of the build phase relative to the timing for your upcoming race.  Now, there is NOTHING, ANYWHERE that says you have to follow that type of an outline.  That is one of the beauties of what we are all doing, it is very individualistic and we all have our own unique ways of training.  That said, my suggestion was based on you not building sufficient base to step in to a specialty plan.  I opted instead to take time to continue to establish an aerobic base, then combine build and specificity as you build towards your race.  Another thing to consider - the specialty plan does indeed taper in the final week, that means you would come out of the specialty  plan with a week of taper under your belt and another week of taper before your race.  You probably don't need two full weeks of cycling taper for an Olympic race.

A training plan, just because it has triathlon in the title, is not necessarily the best plan for YOU.  You need to take into account the author's suggested base and/or build before initiating the plan.  You also need to consider how the plan addresses any unique factors specific to your upcoming race.  Any training plan that is written "for the masses" - that includes all of the plans on Trainer Road, all of the plans here on Beginner Triathlete, any plan you can go to the internet and purchase, etc. - are written towards the lowest common denominator.  It is not written for YOU.  It is written collectively so that ANYONE can benefit from it.  That is not the same as saying it is the best plan for you for a specific situation.  Sometimes it is better to take existing plans, and "cherry pick" what is available to create a unique plan that will specifically address your unique situation.

So now I have thoroughly muddied the waters and added more confusion than answered questions.  One of my core beliefs is that,at the end of the day, the athlete, and ONLY the athlete is responsible for his/her training and race preparation.  Using myself as an example, I have several coaches.  They all provide me with great support, guidance, and information.  They all write training plans for the discipline for which they are responsible and I have one "primary coach" that melds all of their plans into one unique plan.  However, when that plan is submitted to me, I am the one that decides what I will or won't do - based on my experience, knowledge, and trust in their leadership.  I could certainly write my own training plans, however, sometimes - actually, all of the time - it is helpful to have the third party objective opinion.

That is where you are at right now.  YOU are the one that gets to make the decision how you will prepare for your race.  You could pay a coach untold hundreds of dollars to write a plan for your upcoming race, and it would still be up to you to decide if that is the plan you will follow.  You have been presented a few different suggestions, each with it's own pro's and con's.

What it really comes down to is you need to get on your bike and ride.  HOW you ride will certainly influence how prepared you are, but just putting in the miles is the first per-requisite.

Good luck!

Hey George,

Tracking your daily resting heart rate is an excellent guide and can be used to monitor your body's ability to accept training stress.  When there is a drop in resting heart rate, it may indicate you are on the verge of becoming over-trained.  We aren't talking about a drop of a beat or two per minute, rather a drop along the lines of +/- 10%.  I would be concerned on a couple levels about a couple things:

1)  You said last week was a recovery week, but in the same sentence you said it was, "By far, your hardest week of training to date."  Recovery weeks are not suppose to be hard weeks.  They are suppose to be recovery weeks - allowing your body to recover and absorb the accumulated training stress.

2)  Your resting heart rate was elevated, coming off of the so-called recovery week.  Then you had an elevated HR in the pool.  That sounds to me like classic signs of over-training.

If it were me, or if I were your coach, I would suggest you take the next two days off from active training.  Nothing more than active recovery.  Instead of run, take a walk.  Instead of swim, take a walk.  Instead of a bike ride, take a walk.  Go walk around the shopping center, or play a round of golf - with a cart.  Don't do anything that is going to elevate your heart rate out of zone 1 and don't do it for more than 30-45 minutes.  You aren't going to lose any fitness and your body will thank you for it.

Just my humble two cents.

Scott,  I followed my plan to the letter last week but I was inordinately tired considering how little I was doing.  For example I only had a one hour ride on Saturday but I found it harder than it should have been.

After yesterday in the pool my resting HR returned to normal this morning but I had already decided to really lighten up this week.  I will take some walks as you suggest but I'll avoid running and cycling.  

I am sure you're right that I am showing signs of over-training.  It is important to me not to peak before my "A" race and it is a fair ways off so I'm not worried about backing off for a few days.  Once I get back up to speed I'll keep monitoring my HR to avoid over-training.  The last thing I want is to injure myself and risk losing a season.

Thanks for the advice.

Hi all,

Sorry this is late again.  But as they say, better late than never!

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Hey everyone!

Racing season is getting close!  What does everyone have on tap this weekend?

I find myself looking longingly at the pool but that is still a few weeks away.  Planning a long ride this weekend - my first outdoor ride in a couple months - hopefully the weather gods will co-operate as they are saying light rain.  Either way, long ride tomorrow and family day on Sunday.