kaburns1214 Mentor Group 2011 Part 2 - CLOSED (Page 37)

Serious question -- if you really have nothing in your system prior to a hard training session / race, there are going to be adverse affects, yes?  It may not be a "bonk" but wouldn't the low blood sugar affect performance?

i never ride in a cart, unless they make me, even then i try to get with someone and let them drive and I walk along side. Never understood the cart thing, never liked it.

I'm hoping he missed the sarcasm font.

To Brian's point about calories, there was an interesting Chris Carmichael article a few months talking about how calories do not equal fitness (essentailly he had an athlete who was attempting a HIM without proper training and the athlete was confused as to why his performance was so poor when he kept eating).  The take waay was it doesn't matter how much nutrition you take in, if you're not trained for the event no amount of calories is going to get you through it.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe for a second that the phenomenon of "bonking" is exclusive to pro's. 

But you're still saying that only pros can get to the state of system shutdown? That's where I disagree. I think anyone can reach that point. Yes, pros it likely comes easier, as they push themselves harder and more frequently than the average Joe. But to say that AG'ers can't bonk, I don't buy. 

And I'm agreeing with your definition of BONK. I, too, don't like when everyone says they bonked when they had an off day, felt tired, etc. That's not bonking. 

Actually, this is an interesting observation. 

Pros and elite AG'ers who are truly racing for something will push themselves to a point where they fall off the edge and truly bonk.

Whereas, other AG'ers will push themselves until it hurts and then just slow down. 

Now it makes sense when you say that AG'ers are going so hard they bonk.  Bonking, to you, is that element of pushing completely until you go over the edge.  Bonking, to others, is the concept of feeling like they are out of energy and they slow down.

bryancd - 2011-05-20 2:13 PM

abqtj - 2011-05-20 11:37 AM We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe for a second that the phenomenon of "bonking" is exclusive to pro's. 

We likely don't disagree, we are likely defining "bonking" differently. In my definition, bonking is a system shut down to to a severe state of caloric depletion and dehydration. See Julie Moss and "The Crawl" or Paula Newbie's collapse on Ali'i Drive as extreme examples. And Kelly's post above is also the gist of what I am suggesting. Bonking is one of those endurance sport boogeyman's that strike fear in the heart of AG'ers so much so they take 5 gels and 3 bottles with them for a Sprint. Lack of fitness, improper pacing, and in long course, excessive caloric and hydration intake (again to stave off the boogeyman), result in the walkng dead on the run, not bonking. Try and experiment. Wake up one morning and go do an hour run or 90 min bike and don't eat before hand or during. See how you feel.

Bryan is 100% correct - bonking is a complete metabolic failure.  your body shuts down your legs, etc so as to prserve blood glucose for your brain, heart and vital organs.  Bonking is not being really tired and gassed.  If you bonk you literally keel over.  Even "The Crawl" was only the beginning of a bonk.  You have to be so physically fit and mentally tough to overcome your body's natural defense - slowing down - to actually bonk.

I have run 2+ hours with water only in 80+ degree heat and been fine.  Even the skinniest runner has days of calories stored in body fat.  As long as you go slow you not truly bonk, even if you have to walk a marathon.

On June 5th you may see me dragging azz at the end, but it will be from a lack of fitness, not from a lack of blood glucose

Notice the ham, bonk will not bonk

bryancd - 2011-05-20 2:13 PM

abqtj - 2011-05-20 11:37 AM We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe for a second that the phenomenon of "bonking" is exclusive to pro's. 

We likely don't disagree, we are likely defining "bonking" differently. In my definition, bonking is a system shut down to to a severe state of caloric depletion and dehydration. See Julie Moss and "The Crawl" or Paula Newbie's collapse on Ali'i Drive as extreme examples. And Kelly's post above is also the gist of what I am suggesting. Bonking is one of those endurance sport boogeyman's that strike fear in the heart of AG'ers so much so they take 5 gels and 3 bottles with them for a Sprint. Lack of fitness, improper pacing, and in long course, excessive caloric and hydration intake (again to stave off the boogeyman), result in the walkng dead on the run, not bonking. Try and experiment. Wake up one morning and go do an hour run or 90 min bike and don't eat before hand or during. See how you feel.

Do you think it is bad that I routinely run and bike without eating? Especially on the weekends. Come to think of it I don't think I have ever not worked out in the morning on an empty stomach.

I typically don't eat before working out either.  Unless it's the weekend and I have a long bike or run planned, then I'll have something before I start.  But the shorter workouts during the week I'm fine not eating anything.

LOL! Yeah, I don't think I could possibly OVERtrain. 

Hey Kelly/Scott

Some in the IM Tx thread in the Texas forum are saying they signed up TODAY for next year's race. Might want to check that out.

Do you know how often I get people telling me I'm over training?

Current athletes for this year's race are eligible to sign up the day before the race.  Volunteers get head-of-the-line for the following year's race on Sunday and then it goes for general entry.

That's likely people who are racing this year.  Generally WTC allows people who are racing to register for the next years race the day before.  On-line registration open at 12 noon CDT on Sunday.

i'm overtrained - at eating

pbrown70 - 2011-05-20 4:34 PM

bryancd - 2011-05-20 2:13 PM

abqtj - 2011-05-20 11:37 AM We'll have to agree to disagree. I do not believe for a second that the phenomenon of "bonking" is exclusive to pro's. 

We likely don't disagree, we are likely defining "bonking" differently. In my definition, bonking is a system shut down to to a severe state of caloric depletion and dehydration. See Julie Moss and "The Crawl" or Paula Newbie's collapse on Ali'i Drive as extreme examples. And Kelly's post above is also the gist of what I am suggesting. Bonking is one of those endurance sport boogeyman's that strike fear in the heart of AG'ers so much so they take 5 gels and 3 bottles with them for a Sprint. Lack of fitness, improper pacing, and in long course, excessive caloric and hydration intake (again to stave off the boogeyman), result in the walkng dead on the run, not bonking. Try and experiment. Wake up one morning and go do an hour run or 90 min bike and don't eat before hand or during. See how you feel.

Do you think it is bad that I routinely run and bike without eating? Especially on the weekends. Come to think of it I don't think I have ever not worked out in the morning on an empty stomach.

There are (at least) two schools of thought on this and Bryan and I fall on different sides of the line. 

One side is that its beneficial to do "starvation" type workouts as fuel is not necessary for shorter efforts and training on an empty stomach helps you to better metabolize fat (Bryan correct me if I'm wrong). 

The other side (which I fall on) is that you should always fuel workouts.  Even if you don't need the calories for the workout, you're training your gut to take in the calories for times when you'll need them (e.g. in a long course race).  Theory is that if you don't take in calories consistently while training, you're likely to have GI issues on the run of a long race. 

I think the reasonable answer is to do what works for you (and do it consistently -- changing things up on race day is not a good idea). 

With a specialty in oreos?

overtraining is an interesting concept.  its pretty hard for a typical AGer to technically overtrain - what with life getting in the way and all.  but cumulative stress is stress nonethless.  sleep deprivation from work, family and training (4:30 wake ups, late night on the trainer, etc.) adds up.  the only time you actually recover is when you sleep. We weekend warrior types burn the candle hard at both ends: tomorrow i have a 14 mile run followed by little league followed by birthday party followed by about 1 hour of down time and then into neighborhood pizza party.  all good stuff but not necessarily to be rip roarin and ready to go sunday morning for a big ride/run.

I'm more of a chocolate generalist - going with beer and a piece of chocolate right now, lots of antioxidants and probiotics and whatnot.  heck if if i eat enough i think i'll get faster.