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Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! (Page 39)
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 2010-05-03 10:26 PM in reply to: #2769226 |
Pro  5123   Canandaigua NY |  Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED!The before and after pictures are great!!! Some impressive weight loss stories!!! |
| 2010-05-03 10:40 PM in reply to: #2834365 |
Expert 1116 Thornton, CO | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! PennState - 2010-05-03 4:09 PM Great job on the weight loss folks. Anyone train today. I had a Meh swim and am now having a beer and bbqing  Another ride up Lookout Mountain for me. It was a windy day again up there, so even the "flatter" sections (relatively speaking) didn't give the normal "rest" you'd otherwise get going up it. Was still feeling a little fatigue in the legs from the past week, but overall I felt strong. All things considered I still was right at my average speed/time getting up it, which I didn't expect with that wind. I'm hoping to do one more hard week of training, back it off for the next week and get a good solid recovery week in. That will let me be recovered for the Colfax Marathon relay leg I have to run (5.8miles) and do well for the team. That run will also start the next two weeks of hard training, followed by one week of recovery leading into the San Diego Marathon. At which point I'll then have 2 weeks before my first sprint tri of the season! (I'll be training through that race though, so I don't mind if the mary takes away a from my performance). I'm excited to try some of the gear I picked up over the winter that I haven't gotten to race with yet. |
| 2010-05-03 10:58 PM in reply to: #2769226 |
Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! Taking the day off. Legs feel great but I'm still coughing. How long does one normally take time off after an IM? |
| 2010-05-04 6:34 AM in reply to: #2834943 |
Master 3546  Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! WittyCityGirl - 2010-05-03 10:54 PM We had a GREAT swim workout this morning! I can't believe how challenging it was and we weren't even trying to hit hard paces! Swimming with 100% kick/50% pull is TOUGH. So here's a question I posted on the IMLP board, but I think it's better suited for you guys: Who is following the BT plan for IMLP???? I need guidance from someone following it! I started early and now I'm on my last week of training before "tapering"...so I need to figure out if I need to just cycle through the last couple of weeks again as is or add to what I've already done the second time around (and then wait until July to taper). I know I HAVE to start nailing my times on the bike. My 50 mile rides aren't going to cut the mustard come July 25th. I was hurting after my 50 mile ride/2 mile run this weekend. I feel like I should be doing more brick workouts like this. I've got a friend that would have 8-10 hour training days when he was getting ready for IMKY, I think I was expecting that for my own IM training. Can I really complete an Ironman if most of my training sessions are only about 2 1/2 hours/day with a 5+ hour day on the weekend?! I'm not following the BT plan, but "only 2.5 hours a day with a 5+hour day on the weekend" sounds like more than enough training to me. Even if you took a full day off, you're still talking about 17.5 hours a week. Have confidence in the plan - hundreds of people have used the BT ones with success. In my humble opinion, a hard 50 mile ride is just as, if not more, beneficial to you at this point than a 100 mile cruise. Yes you will want to up your bike mileage to get used to being in the saddle that long, practice sustained nutrition, etc... but don't underestimate those medium distance hard rides. I belive Bryan said earlier in this or the IMLP thread that he rarely does long rides... and that most of his HIM prep are the HARD medium distance rides. |
| 2010-05-04 7:24 AM in reply to: #2834890 |
Master 3546 Millersville, MD | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! dharris13 - 2010-05-03 10:24 PM I did not mention my post race in my brief little race report. Immediatly after i fnished the race..i felt like i got hit by a bat. I became dizzy...disoriented..and confused. I made my way to the medical tent and was there for over an hour getting 2 bags of IV. BUT...i was SO ontop of my hydration...i am confused. during the race i felt absolutely fine...but after it was like night and day. i DID use more enurolytes and HEED than normal during the race...by a significant amount bc i knew it would be hot out. ANy way that the extra sodium/electrolytes could have caused this? I wouldn't worry about this - it's VERY common for me to feel terrible after a race. All that says is that you really raced it. In training, you were always providing a measured but conservative stress to your body, and then asking your body to adapt to it. In racing, if you pace it correctly you are operating just a hair shy of a total meltdown for quite a while. For those with the X-factor (mental toughness), you can even sustain for a while an effort that is too much. I think of these people as the ones who start their kick at mile 10 vs. mile 12.5 in a half marathon. Bottom line - you cooked the turkey at 350 degrees instead of 325 all day, and then you threw it in the broiler for the last 30 minutes. That's exactly what you should be doing in a race. You might not feel like a perfectly cooked turkey, but you were definitely done faster. |
| 2010-05-04 9:41 AM in reply to: #2835026 |
Master 1471 Dunedin | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! furiousferret - 2010-05-03 11:58 PM Taking the day off. Legs feel great but I'm still coughing. How long does one normally take time off after an IM? I read in a running mag that you should aim for one day of recovery for every mile you ran... other plans have you starting right back into activites BUT BUT BUT BUT!!!! the maximum time spent is 15 minutes SWIMMING and then like 15 minutes cycling and then you wait a few days to do about 10 minutes of light jogging....hence why people who do IMs 6 weeks apart are sometimes look at as if they are crazy. =) When I did my HIM last year I need two weeks to feel normal. I was crab walking up/down stairs for three days.  |
| 2010-05-04 9:45 AM in reply to: #2835251 |
Master 1471 Dunedin | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! JoshKaptur - 2010-05-04 8:24 AM Bottom line - you cooked the turkey at 350 degrees instead of 325 all day, and then you threw it in the broiler for the last 30 minutes. That's exactly what you should be doing in a race. You might not feel like a perfectly cooked turkey, but you were definitely done faster. Dude, you totally explain things like I would. Love it! |
| 2010-05-04 9:50 AM in reply to: #2835195 |
Master 1471 Dunedin | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! JoshKaptur - 2010-05-04 7:34 AM I'm not following the BT plan, but "only 2.5 hours a day with a 5+hour day on the weekend" sounds like more than enough training to me. Even if you took a full day off, you're still talking about 17.5 hours a week. Have confidence in the plan - hundreds of people have used the BT ones with success. In my humble opinion, a hard 50 mile ride is just as, if not more, beneficial to you at this point than a 100 mile cruise. Yes you will want to up your bike mileage to get used to being in the saddle that long, practice sustained nutrition, etc... but don't underestimate those medium distance hard rides. I'm definitely not saying that Josh is wrong here, but can other people please chime in?? I think this is where a coach would be helpful because I get more confidence from someone saying "Sara, you specifically need to do X,Y,&Z" then have me pick a random plan.  I understand the hardest part is getting to race day injury free, but I don't want to blow up during the ride. I've done one 120+ mile ride before and don't really think I felt like doing 26 miles afterwards, but come race day in July, I'm doing whatever the eff it takes to get across the finish line (well, within reason because the rules say we can only walk, run or crawl on the run course!). Edited by WittyCityGirl 2010-05-04 9:53 AM |
| 2010-05-04 10:09 AM in reply to: #2835251 |
| Expert 759 | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! JoshKaptur - 2010-05-04 8:24 AM dharris13 - 2010-05-03 10:24 PM I did not mention my post race in my brief little race report. Immediatly after i fnished the race..i felt like i got hit by a bat. I became dizzy...disoriented..and confused. I made my way to the medical tent and was there for over an hour getting 2 bags of IV. BUT...i was SO ontop of my hydration...i am confused. during the race i felt absolutely fine...but after it was like night and day. i DID use more enurolytes and HEED than normal during the race...by a significant amount bc i knew it would be hot out. ANy way that the extra sodium/electrolytes could have caused this? I wouldn't worry about this - it's VERY common for me to feel terrible after a race. All that says is that you really raced it. In training, you were always providing a measured but conservative stress to your body, and then asking your body to adapt to it. In racing, if you pace it correctly you are operating just a hair shy of a total meltdown for quite a while. For those with the X-factor (mental toughness), you can even sustain for a while an effort that is too much. I think of these people as the ones who start their kick at mile 10 vs. mile 12.5 in a half marathon. Bottom line - you cooked the turkey at 350 degrees instead of 325 all day, and then you threw it in the broiler for the last 30 minutes. That's exactly what you should be doing in a race. You might not feel like a perfectly cooked turkey, but you were definitely done faster. Wow josh..that makes PERFECT sense to me. Thanks so much for the insight. At mile 3 of the run i knew i was doing well for me (8:30 min miles). I told myself to wait until mile 7 to see if i could still hold the pace. AT mile 7 i was doing well, and knew that if i pulled 8:15 min miles for the last 6 i could PR. So i went for it. So i totally see how i was operating "a hair under meltdown". Perfectly well said and thanks so so much for helping me understand! |
| 2010-05-04 10:10 AM in reply to: #2835026 |
| Expert 759 | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! furiousferret - 2010-05-03 11:58 PM Taking the day off. Legs feel great but I'm still coughing. How long does one normally take time off after an IM? Never done an IM but i am still caughing and lots of mucus after my half... Im glad to hear your legs are feeling so good though! |
| 2010-05-04 10:20 AM in reply to: #2835636 |
Expert 943 Highlands Ranch, CO | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! WittyCityGirl - 2010-05-04 8:41 AM furiousferret - 2010-05-03 11:58 PM Taking the day off. Legs feel great but I'm still coughing. How long does one normally take time off after an IM? I read in a running mag that you should aim for one day of recovery for every mile you ran... other plans have you starting right back into activites BUT BUT BUT BUT!!!! the maximum time spent is 15 minutes SWIMMING and then like 15 minutes cycling and then you wait a few days to do about 10 minutes of light jogging....hence why people who do IMs 6 weeks apart are sometimes look at as if they are crazy. =) When I did my HIM last year I need two weeks to feel normal. I was crab walking up/down stairs for three days. Oh boy, something to look forward to after my HIM  |
| 2010-05-04 10:39 AM in reply to: #2835636 |
Expert 1116 Thornton, CO | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! WittyCityGirl - 2010-05-04 8:41 AM furiousferret - 2010-05-03 11:58 PM Taking the day off. Legs feel great but I'm still coughing. How long does one normally take time off after an IM? I read in a running mag that you should aim for one day of recovery for every mile you ran... other plans have you starting right back into activites BUT BUT BUT BUT!!!! the maximum time spent is 15 minutes SWIMMING and then like 15 minutes cycling and then you wait a few days to do about 10 minutes of light jogging....hence why people who do IMs 6 weeks apart are sometimes look at as if they are crazy. =) When I did my HIM last year I need two weeks to feel normal. I was crab walking up/down stairs for three days. I read that same article and disagreed with that part. I think for those new to running or endurance sports can use a guideline like that, but it really does depend on your fitness level and how well you prepared for the race. For instance, I'm training towards an IM like most of us, but I have a marathon relay in two weeks that will be 5.8miles for my leg. I'm going to run it full out, 100% effort and use it as some speed work. My recovery from something that short is definitely NOT going to take 5-6 days. Last month I ran a new PR for a half marathon (definitely was going 100% that day), the following day I was back to my normal schedule of training. I biked up Lookout Mountain the day after the race like always, ran an easy 5 miles the following day like I normally do, added a mountain bike ride on a bigger mountain than Lookout the 3rd day, then by the 4th day I biked up Lookout Mountain again like normal with the fastest time I've had this season. By the 6th day I ran 12 miles again. If I waited 13 days I'd have lost 2 weeks worth of solid training. One day per mile is excessive in my opinion if you've prepared yourself correctly for a race. If you've only gotten yourself to the minimum it would take for you to finish or DNF, then yes, perhaps it will require 1 day/mile of recovery since you overextended yourself based on your fitness level. In the end though, you just have to go off how you feel. Some people can recover from a marathon within a week others it might take 2 or close to 3 before being back into your normal rhythm of training and paces. But if it takes you 3+, my opinion is that you were drastically under-prepared for that race. But that is with JUST running... HIM/IM is different. It took just over 3 days to start feeling great again after last half mary, but it took close to 3 weeks for me to start feeling back to normal again with my training after my first HIM (but I also believe I was under-prepared for the race). I can't speak for IM yet... since I'm not an Ironman... only half of one. |
| 2010-05-04 11:18 AM in reply to: #2769226 |
Pro 5123 Canandaigua NY | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! My experience with IM recovery was that I was ready physically quicker than mentally. It took me a couple of months to realize it. I swam and biked within the week and really beleive that an easy swim in cool water is as good a recovery as lying on the couch. My IM was in July and I had a couple of early fall races scheduled and really struggled to get motivated to train. I guess after 20 weeks of focus on one race, I need to mentally take a break. Not so much from working out, but structured training schedule.
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| 2010-05-04 11:27 AM in reply to: #2769226 |
Pro 5123 Canandaigua NY | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! Sara, I am not sure the details of the plan you are using, but I have used the intermediate IM plan and I have faith in it. That said, it had several (4 or 5 if I remember correctly) rides over 100 miles, and close to an equal number of rides over 70 miles. So I am not disagreeing with Josh, but would add that if those are the times in the schedule, you need to hit your workouts consistently. I like to say (and accomplish) doing 100% of my planned training 90% of the time. In other words do the plan as written and the full prescribed workout 90% of the time. For most of us, lifes obstacles keep us from 100% perfect plan execution. It is only the first part of May, you have plenty of time to hit your bike miles and take a reasonable taper. Get your runs in, but you do not need to train for the IM marathon like you would a stand alone. Several 2.5 efforts with adequate frequency during the week is more than enough. For the average IM finishers, 5 + hours is not uncommon for the marathon. |
 2010-05-04 11:35 AM in reply to: #2769226 |
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| 2010-05-04 11:38 AM in reply to: #2769226 |
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| 2010-05-04 1:17 PM in reply to: #2836008 |
| Expert 759 | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! PennState - 2010-05-04 12:43 PM Sara, get those long rides in. They are more important than the runs. Last year my long run was 13 miles before LP and only had 2 runs total over 10 miles. It wasn't perfect, but I still ran MOST of the marathon as I had good bike fitness. Back to work, see ya later only speaking from HIM experience...i PERSONALLY think that the long rides are where it is at for ME. It is the ability to come off the bike and feel good that makes it or breaks it for ME. And I also think the long rides are huge mental boosts for me. Knowing i can ride for X miles or Z hours really really helps me get through the day. And knowing i can ride for X miles or Z hours and STILL feel fresh is huge! |
| 2010-05-04 1:19 PM in reply to: #2769226 |
| Expert 759 | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! I truely believe that iron distance is SUCH A MENTAL game...that those long rides really help me feel comfortable. |
| 2010-05-04 3:04 PM in reply to: #2769226 |
| Master 2404 Redlands, CA | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! I think the bike is what killed me, if I had more long days in me I would have gotten to the t2 fresher, probably eaten better and wouldn't have cramped up. I definately feel for the AG'er just trying to cross the line the bike is the most important now. I used to think it was the run, but at IMSG at least half the field blew up on the bike and walked the mary portion. ___________________________________________________________________________ I feel somewhat lost right now, I have alot of work to do on my swim and bike but I don't want to neglect the run either. I need to improve on things and feel like I'm still training for the IM. I know the swim needs work, that's priority one. Next is the bike. I would like to do 10,000 yds a week swimming, 25 mpw running, and 100 mpw on the bike, but that adds up to about 15 hours a week for me and just seems too drastic for what is essentiallly a maintenance schedule. I think more realistic is 6,000/15/100 which is still around 10; I just don't know if that's too much though. I'm also debating just shelving the run alltogether and focus on the swim and bike. I'm also planning on doing a century a month, at least until daylight savings ends. |
| 2010-05-04 3:41 PM in reply to: #2835819 |
| Master 1471 Dunedin | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! zionvier - 2010-05-04 11:39 AM One day per mile is excessive in my opinion if you've prepared yourself correctly for a race. If you've only gotten yourself to the minimum it would take for you to finish or DNF, then yes, perhaps it will require 1 day/mile of recovery since you overextended yourself based on your fitness level. It may be excessive... I did a 15k last month or so and PRed the hell out of the race, but then I paid for it for about a solid week. I don't what it is with me, but I can give all or nothing...which has been a problem because it has lead to me half-assing my training so that I can get in all the training sessions I have on my training plan. I'd love to train harder, farther, faster, but then I don't have anything in the tank for the next day. Throw in a race and ooooooooooh boy! I wouldn't necessarily have said I was undertrained for that 15k, though, based on how long it took to recover. I'd have to say I trained just right to drop off such significant time (I ran, say, a 8:10 pace when the previous year I ran like a 8:40-8:50 pace, can't remember). |
| 2010-05-04 3:56 PM in reply to: #2836607 |
| Master 1471 Dunedin | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! furiousferret - 2010-05-04 4:04 PM I think the bike is what killed me, if I had more long days in me I would have gotten to the t2 fresher, probably eaten better and wouldn't have cramped up. I definately feel for the AG'er just trying to cross the line the bike is the most important now. I used to think it was the run, but at IMSG at least half the field blew up on the bike and walked the mary portion. Thanks for the insight... there has been a lot of fear around the bike for me. I've been looking into bike maintenance classes in my area and none are offered at a time I can go...I have this fear of letting the physical bike itself have some mystical power over me and I HATE IT! I avoid cycling outside a lot because there are so many what ifs? I've gotten more comfy fixing a flat and my 50 mile solo ride was a huuuuuge break through. It's upped my confidence that I CAN go on the longer rides by myself!! I'm part of a tri club and it doesn't always work out to train with other folks, so I'm realizing I gotta buck up myself and just go! I do have a 120+ mile ride coming up Memorial Day weekend and I'm super stoked about it because a fellow IMLP gal is coming!! I think having her there will help me get in a short brick run because I KNOW husband will be annoyed if we bike that far and I say "okay, see you in 20-30 minutes"...having her there to do the brick with me will help him see that YES I NEEEEEED to do this for IM training. |
| 2010-05-04 5:32 PM in reply to: #2836703 |
| Expert 1116 Thornton, CO | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! WittyCityGirl - 2010-05-04 2:41 PM zionvier - 2010-05-04 11:39 AM One day per mile is excessive in my opinion if you've prepared yourself correctly for a race. If you've only gotten yourself to the minimum it would take for you to finish or DNF, then yes, perhaps it will require 1 day/mile of recovery since you overextended yourself based on your fitness level. It may be excessive... I did a 15k last month or so and PRed the hell out of the race, but then I paid for it for about a solid week. I don't what it is with me, but I can give all or nothing...which has been a problem because it has lead to me half-assing my training so that I can get in all the training sessions I have on my training plan. I'd love to train harder, farther, faster, but then I don't have anything in the tank for the next day. Throw in a race and ooooooooooh boy! I wouldn't necessarily have said I was undertrained for that 15k, though, based on how long it took to recover. I'd have to say I trained just right to drop off such significant time (I ran, say, a 8:10 pace when the previous year I ran like a 8:40-8:50 pace, can't remember). Congrats on that PR, that is a significant amount of time to drop! I think the shorter the race, the more likely a 1day/mile would be appropriate. I will still be feeling a full out 5k 2 days later if I did it right, 3rd day I'll start getting back into it like normal (but I actually tend to run a very easy 5 miles a few hours after my 5ks that same day and although I'm feeling it, I continue with normal training on the second day). As the distances get farther I think the ratio drops... taken it to an extreme to really get the point across... a 5k may take 3 days, but the people out there running 100milers aren't taking anywhere near 100days to recover. |
| 2010-05-04 5:42 PM in reply to: #2836703 |
| Expert 1116 Thornton, CO | Subject: RE: Penn State's mentor group - CLOSED! WittyCityGirl - 2010-05-04 2:41 PM zionvier - 2010-05-04 11:39 AM One day per mile is excessive in my opinion if you've prepared yourself correctly for a race. If you've only gotten yourself to the minimum it would take for you to finish or DNF, then yes, perhaps it will require 1 day/mile of recovery since you overextended yourself based on your fitness level. It may be excessive... I did a 15k last month or so and PRed the hell out of the race, but then I paid for it for about a solid week. I don't what it is with me, but I can give all or nothing...which has been a problem because it has lead to me half-assing my training so that I can get in all the training sessions I have on my training plan. I'd love to train harder, farther, faster, but then I don't have anything in the tank for the next day. Throw in a race and ooooooooooh boy! I wouldn't necessarily have said I was undertrained for that 15k, though, based on how long it took to recover. I'd have to say I trained just right to drop off such significant time (I ran, say, a 8:10 pace when the previous year I ran like a 8:40-8:50 pace, can't remember). Just read your report, assuming it was the Forks XV? I'd definitely say you were well trained for that, but I think your solid week of recovery was caused by a cumulation of the 3 1/2 hour bike ride the day before and the 4 mile before you did the 15k like you mentioned in the report. Obviously you are aimed at something much bigger than a 15k and you trained through this race (even setting a new PR, which is awesome). But I think that solid week of recovery could have been caused partially from a cumulation of fatigue, not solely from that 15k. Yes, you would have still needed to recover if you had tapered off more, but would it have taken 7 days or maybe closer to 4 or 5? (1/2 day/mile). Not jabbing at you here, because I think you did the right thing having your head in the game for IMPL. But that article was about recovery from your priority running race, which I'd assume would mean proper training for that distance and a proper taper before hand. Which is why I said 1day/mile is excessive. |
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