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2009-04-14 9:01 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
cjhild - 2009-04-14 6:15 PM
cjhild - 2009-04-13 10:59 AM G- the way my schedule works out it is optimal for me to swim/run Mon-Thurs.  This only leaves Fri-Sat for bike or run.  The bike is my favorite of the three disciplines and schedule permitting I would like to ride those weekend days.  I would even rather ride some during Mon-Thurs but it is less convenient because it now gets light later in the morning.  I start work at 7:00 am, giving me less than an hour of what I find to be an acceptable amount of light to ride and feel safe.

My question is, is it a detriment to have my 2-3 bikes on the weekend as opposed to spread out more during the week?

I could fit in more bike in the week, but it would be right at sunrise and I would prefer to not ride when car's visibility of me is low.


Hey Gordo, what do you think on this one?


J,

It's best to spread them out -- however... it is not optimal to get run over so probably makes sense to wait a couple of weeks until you have more light in the morning.



2009-04-14 9:27 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
There is a lot of talk about swim training by sets. I have just been going for time. I started with 30 min and now I do 35-45 min depending on what's going on an how I feel. When I started I would take more water breaks and do backstroke. Now it is almost all freestyle. What is the benefit to doing sets over this?

Matthew
2009-04-14 9:34 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
Heart rate question. I use a basic Timex HRM to help me pace mostly my running. It has taken me a while to not burn out in the first couple miles by going to fast. I started with the 220-age and at 28 my max is 192. However, for my runs I average about 173-180 bpm or 90-93% of my theoretical max. As I kept up just over a 9 minute mile for about 6 miles today I don't think I am overdoing it. As I understand if I ran at 93% of my actual max for an hour I should be hurting pretty bad by the end. Is there another way to check my max heart rate so I can establish some accurate zones?

Matthew
2009-04-15 9:29 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
GordoByrn

it is not optimal to get run over


Agreed.

I did the calf raises yesterday (3 sets of 10, double leg).  Right behind my knee is pretty sore on both sides, especially when I flex my calf.  I am not sure if it is muscle soreness or a tendon/ligament (I don't know the composition of the lower leg, or anything else for that matter) but it doesn't feel like muscle.  Do you think this is something I should back off on, or just maybe soreness?
2009-04-15 11:49 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
mtntord - 2009-04-14 8:27 PM There is a lot of talk about swim training by sets. I have just been going for time. I started with 30 min and now I do 35-45 min depending on what's going on an how I feel. When I started I would take more water breaks and do backstroke. Now it is almost all freestyle. What is the benefit to doing sets over this? Matthew


Matthew -

The key thing is swimming -- so you have that sorted!  

The sets give structure and, for most, this makes the time go faster as well as improving the overall quality of the workouts.  However, at this stage in your swimming development it is not essential.  What really matters is getting to the pool.

2009-04-15 11:52 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
mtntord - 2009-04-14 8:34 PM Heart rate question. I use a basic Timex HRM to help me pace mostly my running. It has taken me a while to not burn out in the first couple miles by going to fast. I started with the 220-age and at 28 my max is 192. However, for my runs I average about 173-180 bpm or 90-93% of my theoretical max. As I kept up just over a 9 minute mile for about 6 miles today I don't think I am overdoing it. As I understand if I ran at 93% of my actual max for an hour I should be hurting pretty bad by the end. Is there another way to check my max heart rate so I can establish some accurate zones? Matthew


Matthew -

As a general point -- it can take 8-12 weeks to get injured so a couple high intensity runs are unlikely to hurt you.

I recommend that you cap your running at 160bpm and focus mainly in the 145-150 bpm zone.  This will seem quite slow but you should be running your 173-180 pace in a few months if you persist.  It is the safest (and fastest) way for you to improve.



2009-04-15 11:54 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
cjhild - 2009-04-15 8:29 AM
GordoByrn

it is not optimal to get run over


Agreed.

I did the calf raises yesterday (3 sets of 10, double leg).  Right behind my knee is pretty sore on both sides, especially when I flex my calf.  I am not sure if it is muscle soreness or a tendon/ligament (I don't know the composition of the lower leg, or anything else for that matter) but it doesn't feel like muscle.  Do you think this is something I should back off on, or just maybe soreness?


Why don't you reduce overall intensity for 48 hours (but keep training) and see what happens.  Hopefully it will settle down.

For the calves, remember... up on two legs, down on one leg -- 1x15 each side -- one set of straight leg and one set of bent leg.  Hold angle constant on bent leg.  Push through big toe and maintain proper foot, ankle, knee alignment.

2009-04-15 3:58 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
GordoByrn

Why don't you reduce overall intensity for 48 hours (but keep training) and see what happens.


Copy that.

Yesterday:

swim
4x25 10 sec RI
2x50 10 sec RI
2x75 10 sec RI
2x100 15 sec RI
200
2x50 15 sec RI
100

Today:

run
30 minutes
treadmill, took it pretty easy
2009-04-15 4:01 PM
in reply to: #2072085

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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
Hey Suzy,

When you were working through PF, did it bother you when you were actually running?
2009-04-15 7:57 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
cjhild - 2009-04-15 4:01 PM Hey Suzy,

When you were working through PF, did it bother you when you were actually running?


In the beginning, no.  It would mainly hurt in the morning.  As I continued to run, it got worse and hurt all the time, including every step I took running.  I look back on it and realize how stupid I was to continue to abuse it.  I actually tweaked things again biking the other day.  I'm running on it to get through the marathon on Monday, but am going to take a break after that.  Just be careful. This is one of those nasty injuries that can sideline you for a while and really wreck a season.
2009-04-16 8:21 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
If the inter-web-net-thingie crashes I guess it is my fault....I just posted a swim workout.  That's right...I got in the pool this morning.

I won't lie and say I loved it but it was not bad for not being in there for over 4 weeks.  I'll be starting from scratch again on the 0-1650 Plan (although I want to look at the one that was listed on our groups thread).  I had planned to do an Olympic race in May but life in general and lack of funds got in the way of that happening, so I lost all motivation to get wet on a regular basis.  My first tri race this year now is a Super Sprint in June so I have plenty of time to prepare for that and still build my base back up for the HIM in Sept.

Steve

BTW....Suzy (SSMinnow) is going to ROCK Boston on Monday.  She is my HERO 


2009-04-16 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
Reno8 - 2009-04-16 8:21 AM If the inter-web-net-thingie crashes I guess it is my fault....I just posted a swim workout.  That's right...I got in the pool this morning.

I won't lie and say I loved it but it was not bad for not being in there for over 4 weeks.  I'll be starting from scratch again on the 0-1650 Plan (although I want to look at the one that was listed on our groups thread).  I had planned to do an Olympic race in May but life in general and lack of funds got in the way of that happening, so I lost all motivation to get wet on a regular basis.  My first tri race this year now is a Super Sprint in June so I have plenty of time to prepare for that and still build my base back up for the HIM in Sept.

Steve

BTW....Suzy (SSMinnow) is going to ROCK Boston on Monday.  She is my HERO 


YEAH STEVE! You are already a good swimmer so this should be a great goal heading into the Super Sprint. Welcome back to training buddy. Maybe you can keep me honest in my pursuit of 1650 yards!  I have printed out the "swim a mile in 6 weeks" plan a dozen times and always throw it away after the second week.  Even G's plans get cut down.  I am such a swimming weenie.  Need to change that come April 28th!

Did my last Mad Town run this morning.  Only a short 4m left before Monday. I am looking to run up Heartbreak Hill vs the 10:30 walk last year. Should be fun!

Suzy
2009-04-16 2:45 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
SSMinnow

hurt all the time, including every step I took running


It is wierd because I cannot feel it at all when running.  I have been taking it easy.  It feels great right now.  I am going to try to keep it that way.

Thanks.
2009-04-16 2:47 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
Today:

ride

1h 03m14.30 miles13.62 Mi/hr


I went easy on the bike today.  I ordered a Garmin 305, I can't wait to get it to see what kind of effort I am actually putting out.  Whenever I ride I feel like I am redlining it the whole ride.  Looking forward to analyzing it a bit more.
2009-04-16 7:05 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
Hey G

As soon as this marathon is over, I need to turn my attention to my first tri which is on 6/7.  It is a 800y/29m/10K and it will be my first attempt at something other than a Sprint.  Given my injury and long rehab I have not done any brick work since August, but I know I can do each distance individually without issue.  Knowing I will need at least a one week recovery post Boston,  what kind of approach should I use to get ready in 5 weeks?  should I think about it differently given I want to do a HIM in September?

Thanks
Suzy
2009-04-16 7:57 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

I have a HR training Q. Lately, been using my HRM in the pool and it has been interesting: feel like I'm really working but the HR is only in the 130's. (RHR is about 54 and max? is about 178?)

I've had swim form looked at by various coaches and videoanalysis (not lengthy, but it was illuminating) and get generally good comments. I do know my toes do not point - they cramp up if I attempt it.

So - when I attempt to swim faster, I find HR quickly shoots up there (as does stroke count) but speed does not. Any ideas? Thanks, Barbara



2009-04-16 8:05 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

Steve - just want to offer some encouragement for your swimming. It is a skill that seems to demand attention and practice, quite unlike running or cycling. And hey, in return, you get rockin' external obliques and great shoulders!

2009-04-17 6:48 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
First off, good luck in Boston Suzy. I'm sure you'll do great.

Sorry I dropped off, we lost our internet connection for a few days.

Still trying to get a decent training plan together that I can do up here but I'm having some issues. I started looking at some of the articles on endurancecorner.com as well as a few other things for ideas and am still trying to come up with a balanced plan.  If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it. The only equipment I have access to right now is an inclined bench and a pair of dumbbells. I hesitate to use the dumbbells too much as they're an old pair of adjustable weight bowflex ones that have issues with the weights falling off. The only two exercises I need to do are pushups and situps to ensure I can pass my PT test. I'm also planning on using the hill here for cardio and part of a leg work out. Most of the hill is at about a 45 degree angle and at about 7,000 ft elevation just walking up it is a workout. I also need to get it out of my head that if I don't feel drained with my muscles burning after a workout that I didn't do anything useful.

Hope everyones training is going well.

Rob
2009-04-17 9:46 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
Gordo
OK, I need to get some consistency and structure into my routine.  I have a race I would really like to target in August, so roughly 17 weeks out.  In trying to keep "healthy" as my number one goal, this race is for fun and enjoyment, as well as a weekend away from the sweltering Phoenix Valley...

I am focusing right now on 3 strength training sessions a week.  The strength piece was really lacking, and working with a CSCS/ (18X Ironman, so he is familiar with tri training) has been helping. 

My question -- am I better off doing a sprint program that does 3x per week per sport, or stick with 2x per week per sport?  For a while now, I have been using the PC Coach program (Pigg/Maffetone) and it basically spits out a program based on MAF tests and number of hours training a week.  I would like to get your input on the best way to approach the frequency piece.

Hope all is well.  We should have beautiful weather this weekend for nice, enjoyable bike and run...

ken
2009-04-17 10:03 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
Just a general group question....I am a techno-IDIOT or I would do this myself...but does anyone here have the ability (and time/interest) to build us a table of names and Logs for the group?  It makes doing Inspires and checking in on our mates so much easier.

Just wondering.

Steve
2009-04-17 10:39 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
SSMinnow - 2009-04-16 6:05 PM Hey G

As soon as this marathon is over, I need to turn my attention to my first tri which is on 6/7.  It is a 800y/29m/10K and it will be my first attempt at something other than a Sprint.  Given my injury and long rehab I have not done any brick work since August, but I know I can do each distance individually without issue.  Knowing I will need at least a one week recovery post Boston,  what kind of approach should I use to get ready in 5 weeks?  should I think about it differently given I want to do a HIM in September?

Thanks
Suzy


I'm going to give you my best advice.

Forget about the triathlon and get your body 100%.  This injury is probably hanging around because you are "kinda" healing it after each event.  While you heal yourself, you can improve your swimming -- assuming pushing off the wall doesn't irritate (swimming is likely much less an issue than marathoning).

g


2009-04-17 10:42 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
BabsVa - 2009-04-16 6:57 PM

I have a HR training Q. Lately, been using my HRM in the pool and it has been interesting: feel like I'm really working but the HR is only in the 130's. (RHR is about 54 and max? is about 178?)

I've had swim form looked at by various coaches and videoanalysis (not lengthy, but it was illuminating) and get generally good comments. I do know my toes do not point - they cramp up if I attempt it.

So - when I attempt to swim faster, I find HR quickly shoots up there (as does stroke count) but speed does not. Any ideas? Thanks, Barbara



Calf rehab exercises will help you free your calves up -- they should be used by everyone -- you could be the 4th or 5th person here that I've recommended them to.  A tight muscle is normally a weak muscle -- so you increase range of movement by strengthening.

Have you tried my descending recommendations?  See benchmarking my swimming - article linked earlier.  Odds are, you have not yet learned to slowly increase effort -- you may be on/off with your swimming.  It takes practice to descend (swim gradually faster) but it is worth it.

g
2009-04-17 10:46 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
InsertNameHere - 2009-04-17 5:48 AM First off, good luck in Boston Suzy. I'm sure you'll do great.

Sorry I dropped off, we lost our internet connection for a few days.

Still trying to get a decent training plan together that I can do up here but I'm having some issues. I started looking at some of the articles on endurancecorner.com as well as a few other things for ideas and am still trying to come up with a balanced plan.  If anyone has any ideas I'd appreciate it. The only equipment I have access to right now is an inclined bench and a pair of dumbbells. I hesitate to use the dumbbells too much as they're an old pair of adjustable weight bowflex ones that have issues with the weights falling off. The only two exercises I need to do are pushups and situps to ensure I can pass my PT test. I'm also planning on using the hill here for cardio and part of a leg work out. Most of the hill is at about a 45 degree angle and at about 7,000 ft elevation just walking up it is a workout. I also need to get it out of my head that if I don't feel drained with my muscles burning after a workout that I didn't do anything useful.

Hope everyones training is going well.

Rob


Rob,

If you are looking for a triathlon plan then use one on this site.  If you are looking for a strength/general fitness plan then you might check out Gyminee.Com.

I strongly caution against fast uphill running early in your plan.  You'll do best with hiking and moderate flat run:walk.

You can also type out a simple week plan here and I'll have a look -- aim for much less than you think you need.  #1 is building a habit of consistent daily exercise.  Think movement, rather than training.

2009-04-17 10:49 AM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring
Ken in AZ - 2009-04-17 8:46 AM Gordo
OK, I need to get some consistency and structure into my routine.  I have a race I would really like to target in August, so roughly 17 weeks out.  In trying to keep "healthy" as my number one goal, this race is for fun and enjoyment, as well as a weekend away from the sweltering Phoenix Valley...

I am focusing right now on 3 strength training sessions a week.  The strength piece was really lacking, and working with a CSCS/ (18X Ironman, so he is familiar with tri training) has been helping. 

My question -- am I better off doing a sprint program that does 3x per week per sport, or stick with 2x per week per sport?  For a while now, I have been using the PC Coach program (Pigg/Maffetone) and it basically spits out a program based on MAF tests and number of hours training a week.  I would like to get your input on the best way to approach the frequency piece.

Hope all is well.  We should have beautiful weather this weekend for nice, enjoyable bike and run...

ken


Two ideas...

1 -- choose the program you are most likely to complete in full and enjoy.  This is most important.  The "best" plan is only superior if you like it and do it.

2 -- if they both fit inside #1 then choose the one with 3x per week frequency.

g
2009-04-17 1:20 PM
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Subject: RE: GordoByrn's Group Full for the Spring

Coach G - OK, Roger that, on the calf ex's. Yep had some success a few days ago w/descending intervals on 250's (see my earlier post w/the slow, slower, slowest comment). Will try again pushing the pace a bit? Let's see if I can keep from coming apart which seems to happen when I swim 'fast'

Everybody; all together now:

" suZEE suZEE suZEE!"

Good luck in Boston you Miss Fast Thang!

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