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Member ![]() ![]() | ![]() I don't have a heart rate monitor yet. I hope to get one soon (graduation or birthday). |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Hey Brent, Question for you...in using my HR monitor, is it possible that a 42 year old man that has been running 3-5 miles a day for better than a year now would have a max HR that is higher than the calc that they tell us to use (220-age=Max)? I went out in heat today and while I didn't run a fast pace at all, the HR was high the whole time, but I wasn't breathing hard for most of the time and didn't feel any distress (except when I missed my turn and had to back track, which cost me 2 more miles in total). Just curious |
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![]() | ![]() Hey folks, Thanks for the the responses about HRM's and your self assessment of how to use them for training. As you have read, the responses have a pretty broad range. I think the best way to proceed is to cover the material. If you use a HRM and have a pretty good understanding of how to use it, you may not get much out of the discussion, but you never know. 1. lowering your resting hear rate as your fitness improves 2. Teaching your body how to burn fat as fuel (we'll cover this topic later) 3. Teaching your body how to get more oxygen to your working muscles 4. Teaching your body how to store more glycogen in your muscles (again later topic). 5. Gaining muscle strength The base stage is an important one for sure. Just like a house, it is the foundation of what the rest of the training year will be built off of. Weak base could mean the house comes crashing down, or maybe just isn't as strong as it could be. The next stage is intensity. This stage still has a pretty high % of training volume at the Low/EASY level, but you start to increase the total training volume as well as the % of training time doing higher intensity workout / HARD workouts. These longer and higher intensity workouts take the benefits of more oxygen transport and glycogen storage and begins to teach your body how to do these things while going faster, an important thing when you get to racing |
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![]() | ![]() baldbuyer - 2009-04-23 10:44 PM Hey Brent, Question for you...in using my HR monitor, is it possible that a 42 year old man that has been running 3-5 miles a day for better than a year now would have a max HR that is higher than the calc that they tell us to use (220-age=Max)? I went out in heat today and while I didn't run a fast pace at all, the HR was high the whole time, but I wasn't breathing hard for most of the time and didn't feel any distress (except when I missed my turn and had to back track, which cost me 2 more miles in total). Just curious Hi Lance, If you are saying your HR was over your MAX at the described exertion you were running, I would say it is HIGHLY unlikely. Everyone is different, but that seems to fall too far outside of the norm. Sometimes when I sweat a lot in the heat the sweat which is covering my whole chest area (think more than your typical sweaty shirt), my HRM starts making funky readings. I think the salty sweat is a conductor and is messing with the electrical impulse coming from your hear. The HR strap can't tell where the impulse is coming from. I think this happens more when the battery needs to be replaced (for me about every 6 months or so). You can also try the specific HRM conductive gel they sell, which helps maintain a better signal. If it continues I'd try some of that. Brent |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() But he's using the 220-age formula to get his max. So it's probably not really his max. At least it isn't for me. My max is 186 and the formula put its almost 20 points lower. |
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![]() | ![]() MacMadame - 2009-04-25 2:42 AM But he's using the 220-age formula to get his max. So it's probably not really his max. At least it isn't for me. My max is 186 and the formula put its almost 20 points lower. Marie, Have you been tested to get your 186 max? If so, that's the best way to go, but if not, the general , and it's very general, way to get it is the 220 - age. |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I ran a 5K race this morning that I ran LY when I was much heavier. This year I finished in 26:23 (8:31 pace) vs LY of 33:54 (11:10 pace). Best part is that I probably could have pushed it a little harder, unlike LY when I felt like I was going to die..... woo-hoo |
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![]() | ![]() baldbuyer - 2009-04-26 12:26 PM I ran a 5K race this morning that I ran LY when I was much heavier. This year I finished in 26:23 (8:31 pace) vs LY of 33:54 (11:10 pace). Best part is that I probably could have pushed it a little harder, unlike LY when I felt like I was going to die..... woo-hoo Unbelievable improvement! Amazing. Congratulations. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bschulte - 2009-04-26 5:56 AM Have you been tested to get your 186 max? If so, that's the best way to go, but if not, the general , and it's very general, way to get it is the 220 - age. I had a cardiac stress test in Sept. and that's what they told me. I want to get tested in a more traditional way at some point, but I haven't had the time or the cash. But I know it's not 166 because not only have I gotten up to 173, but I don't feel in the 160s like you would feel if that was in Zone 5. And I agree about the HRM sometimes going whacko. Mine today said my max during my swim was 240! ![]() So I have some questions about your post. I have the Triathlete's Training Diary and it talks about the various training periods too. I guess they are describe in much more detail in the companion book (that I don't have), but the description of the Peak time in the diary is a lot different than yours. They describe it more like a taper where you are taking it easy, doing only low intensity workouts for much less time in the week or two leading up to a race. Am I not understanding something or is what you are telling us just a different training philosophy? I think having a long peak period where you are racing a lot makes more sense than what Friel would have me do -- which results in 4 weeks of taper (one for the last week of your Build and then 2 for Peak and then 1 more for Race week) for a Sprint Tri! Granted, he only suggests this for A races and it's not his fault that by the time my A race came around I was in good enough shape for it to be a B race, but I'm still not convinced it will work in general. It just seems like too much time to be taking it easy. |
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![]() | ![]() MacMadame - 2009-04-26 4:54 PM bschulte - 2009-04-26 5:56 AM Have you been tested to get your 186 max? If so, that's the best way to go, but if not, the general , and it's very general, way to get it is the 220 - age. I had a cardiac stress test in Sept. and that's what they told me. I want to get tested in a more traditional way at some point, but I haven't had the time or the cash. But I know it's not 166 because not only have I gotten up to 173, but I don't feel in the 160s like you would feel if that was in Zone 5. And I agree about the HRM sometimes going whacko. Mine today said my max during my swim was 240! ![]() So I have some questions about your post. I have the Triathlete's Training Diary and it talks about the various training periods too. I guess they are describe in much more detail in the companion book (that I don't have), but the description of the Peak time in the diary is a lot different than yours. They describe it more like a taper where you are taking it easy, doing only low intensity workouts for much less time in the week or two leading up to a race. Am I not understanding something or is what you are telling us just a different training philosophy? I think having a long peak period where you are racing a lot makes more sense than what Friel would have me do -- which results in 4 weeks of taper (one for the last week of your Build and then 2 for Peak and then 1 more for Race week) for a Sprint Tri! Granted, he only suggests this for A races and it's not his fault that by the time my A race came around I was in good enough shape for it to be a B race, but I'm still not convinced it will work in general. It just seems like too much time to be taking it easy. Awesome question. There are 3 terms I've heard used for the this stage; Peak (peaking), sharpening, and taper. They are all synonymous. This was very confusing to me when I first read about this. I came from a swimming background and we always tapered for the big races. They were our "A" races I guess, but this concept of tapering, then having a whole phase after it was a whole new thing. Most people think of taper as just backing off of the mileage, which it certainly is. In the Intensity phase there are some training intensities we have not discussed yet (intervals, hill intervals, etc), which really come into play in the Taper or Peak phase. Overall volume down, but these high intensity workout remain and "sharpen" your skills. So the Race phase is there to stretch out that period where you are in tip top racing condition. In essence allowing you to have a couple "A" races in this period. Personally, my "A" race has always been my last race of the season so there wasn't a need to stretch out the racing phase. However, this year I have 2 "A" races. Ironman Coeur d'Alene in June and Ironman Florida in November. Obviously there is too much time between these two so what I will do (I did this last year too just to make sure it works for me) is after IMCDA I will do 1 periodization (4 weeks) of Base, 2 periodizations of Intensity, and 1 periodization of Peak. I call this a bi-modal season as there are two volume build up periods, two humps if you will. Oh, and if there is a 3rd race in Kona, fingers crossed, I will cut out 1 week of base, 1 week of Intensity, and will need to utilize the Racing phase to race another "A" race 3 weeks after Kona. Hope this helped with your question. Edited by bschulte 2009-04-26 8:29 PM |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() bschulte - 2009-04-26 6:28 PM Overall volume down, but these high intensity workout remain and "sharpen" your skills. Argh, so I've been doing it exactly wrong! I've been doing low intensity workouts, but not cutting down my volume like I had planned. Well, that's okay... I've got the second half of the season to try again. When you do your next post in the series, are you going to address how often to race and how to incorporate races into your plan? That's something that confuses me. I started out thinking I'd do a race every other month and now I'm thinking I'll do them every month instead. (Which just means adding a July race at this point -- it's going to be a family vacation camping at Lake Tahoe combined with a race, if I can get the family on board.) But I don't want to spend from now until the end of the season in "race" mode because I want to continue to up my distances and times. So I need some more base and build in there. |
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![]() | ![]() Hi All, Anyone else have any questions on the material discussed last week? Marie, I'll talk about racing and how to build it into your plan during this week TOTW, which btw will be to discuss different training intensities. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() My biggest question is how long should you be in these zones or trng effort levels, whatever you want to call them? My hrm calls them te and should I be maxing them out on runs? I dont want to burn out or overtrain but worried about under trng. I felt like I should have done more speed workouts before the marathon. I was just putting in time for that I want to make my A race this year I finish strong and meet the goals. I do my first tri May 9 which is an oly and in Nov doing a HIM (A race). I will do a few others besides them but these are the two I will base things off of for the year. Another question is if I miss a set workout should I try and make it up on another day? As we all know things come up for me it would be work or kids. Another question off topic asked about my toes going numb second one in from the pinky toe? Happens on longer bike rides. Somebody told me possibly shoes or bike set up. |
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![]() | ![]() fireman70 - 2009-04-27 11:14 AM My biggest question is how long should you be in these zones or trng effort levels, whatever you want to call them? My hrm calls them te and should I be maxing them out on runs? I dont want to burn out or overtrain but worried about under trng. I felt like I should have done more speed workouts before the marathon. I was just putting in time for that I want to make my A race this year I finish strong and meet the goals. I do my first tri May 9 which is an oly and in Nov doing a HIM (A race). I will do a few others besides them but these are the two I will base things off of for the year. Another question is if I miss a set workout should I try and make it up on another day? As we all know things come up for me it would be work or kids. Another question off topic asked about my toes going numb second one in from the pinky toe? Happens on longer bike rides. Somebody told me possibly shoes or bike set up. Good questions Matt, The first one I'll start to address in this weeks topic. Your second question about missing workouts is a tough one. Usually a weeks training is laid out to maximize your recovery time between workouts, so sometimes doing same sport workouts with similar intensities isn't a good idea and you actually end up sub-optimizing 2 workouts. Back to back bike workouts isn't so much of an issue as there isn't any "impact" on the legs. Your leg muscles contract completely differently on the bike vs. the run. The contraction is more gradual. The contraction on the run is more violent. It takes the legs longer to recover from a run then a bike. Also, pay attention to your shoulders on back to back swims. Life does happen around training so you have to be flexible. You will just have to try various things when moving your workouts around and pay attention to what works and what doesn't. You will start to know how your body reacts to the changes, thus what you can and can't do. Your last question about toe pain.....I get the same thing. Nearly every long ride between miles 63-65 my big toes start to feel like someone is driving a nail into them. It comes and goes every couple miles after that. I haven't been able to solve this one......so if you do, please share! |
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![]() | ![]() ok.....the internet really sucks sometime. I just had the TOTW typed out (LONG POST) and went to update and it wouldn't. I'll see if I can find time to type again. May just take it in little pieces this week as not to overwhelm folks with the technical stuff.....it can be kind of dry, but it's important training stuff to maximize your workouts. Edited by bschulte 2009-04-28 2:08 PM |
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![]() | ![]() TOTW part 1 Last week we discussed the different training phases, this week we'll cover the different levels of training. Next week we'll cover the different types of workouts within these levels. These levels, referred to as training zones or HR zones, or Power zones are basically all the same thing. They all estimate the amount of stress on the body with a given level of exhaustion. If you will allow me to take some liberties for the of simplicity we'll see if we can boil the pretty complex material down. As stated before power meters and HRM's are used basically the same way. The power meter is more exacting and scientific, but let talk simply here, they both are used to estimate body stress and are both used to determine training zones. Training zones are basically, percentages of your Vo2 max which correspond to different physiological adaptations. I'll go over this later. As stated last week let's use HR to determine these zones, but all applies if you are using power. Some training methods use 7 zones, some use 5 zone, or even 3 zones. The training I use has 5 zones so I will speak from that perspective as it is what I know. In very general terms there are 3 basic areas you train in. 1. Aerobic training (means with oxygen) - plenty of excess oxygen for your muscles to use here. This is the "EASY" pace 2. Anaerobic training (without oxygen) - muscles are using all of the available oxygen, starting to burn higher % of sugar 3. Threshold training - muscles using all oxygen and burning very high % sugar, also your body can not remove all of the lactic acid, a by product of burning sugar, at the rate it is producing it. Muscle fatigue / burning becomes prevalent. "HARD" workouts. Next post.....how to determine the HR zones |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Fireman 70, Talk to someone at your local bike shop on the toes going numb. I had the same issue and sometimes it is either your footbed in the shoe (which it was for me and you might be able to aid with an insert...ala Dr. Scholls) or they might be able to shim your cleat to change the pressure point where you are driving down on the pedal. There is a bone in the middle of your foot that when it gets inflamed will either cause a feeling like a cramp in the middle of your foot with pain in your 3 or 4th toe or numbness....The footbed worked for me, though. FYI |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Baldbuyer, You are my hero. I am heading tomorrow to the lbs where I got the bike and will have them make sure I am sitting properly and in a good position while in the aero bars. I still have a little neck pain but that may just need an adjustment. The only thing else would be to get a prof fit for the bike. I hope the foot thing can be done with minor adjustments. Thanks for the input. What type of inserts did you use? |
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Veteran ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() I bought a pair of SOLE Ultras, check the following link: http://www.trisports.com/soulcufo.html They are a little pricey ($40 basically) but still cheaper than orthotics or a new pair of cycling shoes. Check the reviews on the website if you're curious. FYI |
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![]() | ![]() baldbuyer - 2009-04-29 3:22 PM I bought a pair of SOLE Ultras, check the following link: http://www.trisports.com/soulcufo.html They are a little pricey ($40 basically) but still cheaper than orthotics or a new pair of cycling shoes. Check the reviews on the website if you're curious. FYI Very curious to see if this solves the issue. I am however a little concerned about adding any absorption material to the bottom of cycling shoes. Shoe makers charge big bucks (which I have paid) for carbon fiber soles to ensure maximum power is transfered to the pedal on each stroke (they don't flex as like plastic). I am concerned that the absorption material would reduce the force to the pedal. If you report back that this works I'll have to do some research to see if my fears are real or not. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Went back to lbs and they said to try and move the clip in towards the big toe (less vessels) and a little bit farther back on the shoe. I will make minor adjustments on the shoe seeing how they made some adjustments on the bike today. Had two guys watch me ride. The moved the seat forward and a little bit down and bars out. I will give it a couple rides and see how it feels. Thanks for the info. They also said it could be from the pedals. Dang this tri thing is expensive. lol |
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Master ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() On the shoe/feet numb issue, I got some advice from HeWhoKnowsAllThingsBikes that I should get shoe inserts. Not the Dr. Scholes kind either. Superfeet makes a cycling specific insert. Specialized also their BG inserts. I too would be fearful of putting a big insert into my shoe and probably not for the reason that Brent is worried. This is disgusting but on long rides during the summer, I pee on the bike. I don't want it to collect in my shoe either. Tri shoes are made with holes in them so water runs out. Then again, foot numbness could be the shoes too. I wear the Shimano high end tri shoes. They are nice. The other shoe I would buy (and I will buy them next time) are the Specialized TriVents. I have a wide foot and find these two makes fit a wider foot. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Anyone have any last minute advice for me for Wildflower? One thing that is confusing me is that there are aide stations on the bike course and you can trade in your water bottle for a fresh one. Is that normal? Should I plan to stop at some point in the ride? They don't do this for Sprints so I have no experience; I had assumed you don't do this until HIM, in fact. |
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Regular![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() Numbness still there but not as bad. Neck pain was gone it felt better with adjustments but legs were tired quicker (quads) dont think I am getting that full extension. I have another ride before I move the seat up a little (minor). Next week is my oly dont know if they do that there with the bottles dont think they do. I just put an aero bottle on mine it made it nice not to sit up to drink. You can just take a sip and spit it out if you mouth gets dry. Good luck with yours next week. |
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Expert ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() | ![]() MacMadame - 2009-04-30 4:54 PM Anyone have any last minute advice for me for Wildflower? One thing that is confusing me is that there are aide stations on the bike course and you can trade in your water bottle for a fresh one. Is that normal? Should I plan to stop at some point in the ride? They don't do this for Sprints so I have no experience; I had assumed you don't do this until HIM, in fact. I have never seen an aide station for an olympic either. I would not use the aide station if it were me but everyone is different. I only go through one bottle of liquid total on the bike during an olympic ride and like my own mix which has worked great for me. What exactly is being provided - just water, gatorade, gel?? If you are just looking to take in some extra water should not be an issue but make sure your stomach is comfortable with other things being offered in a training environment prior to racing with it - that is a consensus on the board. Ryan |
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