Newbz' group is FULL (Page 4)

Well, all this snow has cancelled work for me for the rest of the week so let the vacation begin! My first official tri isn't until June, I picked kinda of a late one so I could get through the school year.  Anyhow, given that I have 6 months or so, I was planning on doing a 5k in March, and maybe a duathlon in May, just to get me use to these types of competition.  Maybe some volunteering at earlier events to get a better look at transitions and the whole environment....thoughts?

Right now I am doing about 2-3 days of strength (2 days lift, 1generally yoga or similar) 3-4, days core, and lots of different cardio.  I work out in the morning and usually get in about an hour to hour and a half of workouts.  Question though, is it counter productive for me to workout in the a.m. and then go run at night?  I am still trying to shed a little bit of weight, and gain some strength now, but wasn't sure about resting the muscles or overworking them.

I also bought the triathlete magazine week by week training guide by Matt Fitzgerald....it has a pretty detailed 12 week program that I was planning on beginning in March.

These questions are kinda spaced out i know, but I feel like I'm taking in so much info and hearing so many different tips that I'm beginning to get confused.

Cheers!

Edited by mbeall2 2009-12-22 7:03 AM

That's a pretty good way to prove the importance of transistions!

Do you use a flying mount technique with your shoes in the cleats?  I've thought about trying this, but am not sure I could manage it.

This is why I made practicing transition a part of my training. I missed my first podium finish by 36 sec. 

600 Yd. Swim/12 Mile Bike/3 Mile Beach Run

3 Galbreath   37 Pt Orange   FL 1:15:44  4  11:35  1:29  5  36:20  0:31  4   25:50         
4  McGray   37 Pt Orange     FL 1:16:20  3  10:48  1:37   6  36:53 1:10  5   25:54

Here are my transition times from the next race, please disregard the run time as I was having some issues

800 Yd. Swim/15 Mile Bike/4 Mile Beach Run

10 McGray  37 Port Orange   FL 1:39:36  4   12:35  0:47  7   46:36  0:24  10  39:16

A little practice with transition goes a long way. Easy way to pick up race time.

Edited by craig0812 2009-12-22 10:09 AM

as long as you are not getting hurt there is no reason you cant go back and run later/at night. i run at night a ton!

i'm heading to FL tomorrow for a 2 week family visiting vacation (cough training camp cough)

yes flying mounts, BUT, do not do this unless you are very very ok doing it and know its faster for you. if you dont do it well you're asking for trouble and could easily hurt yourself. getting off the bike lie this is much easier

KC - I gained a lot of swimming endurance with 3 days a week; I just need to get some speed now!

David - Wow, that sure does show that transitions are part of racing.  I think the Bear posted a similar thread awhile back where he won based on transition times.  Have a safe trip to Florida!

mbeall - I think a lot of triathletes do two a day workouts, myself included.  I generally like doing strength training on the night after swimming in the morning; and biking on the night after running in the morning.  There's really no way to fit everything without doing two-a-days.

Well, I tried the first hour of the Aero Base Builder spinerval DVD.  I did not like it.  I could not keep up.  Guess I'll just have to keep doing it until I can keep up.

Thanks Maria. That makes me feel good. 3 days is something I can certainly work into my schedule and not feel like I'm spreading myself to thin while still  keeping up on running/cycling/wt training and of course living a normal life while juggling all these activities. That's what makes it so special and the end goal so rewarding .

i hear that on juggling the workouts, it can be rough at times, and was deff a lot easier at school with shorter days, or more ability to schedule work on my own time.

maria,

if the workouts are too much (was it too hard or too long?), what i would do, is try and follow the same format but back everything down a bit assuming it was too hard vs too long. in other words stick with the same intervals, speedup and slow downs, but back the intensity of everything down a step or two. Also if you are trying to do the exact gears they call for you may have to play with the resistance of your trainer a bit, it took me a while before i could get it exactly right.

Also a good point about it being hard to fit in all the workouts on a single workout a day.

doing that and taking a day off which a lot of people do is going to put you at 2 runs, 2 swim, and 2 bikes a week (assuming you only take one day off and balance it). anything over that is going to require 7 days a week or 2 workouts a day. as long as you have the time ans safely build into it, its ok and wont hurt you.

My first season (4 years ago) i was doing maybe 3 rides a week, 2-3 runs, and 2 swims.
this past season on my bigger weeks i was getting in on ave 5 runs, 5 rides, and 6 swims per week. Interestingly aside from the fun part of scheduling that in time wise that amount doesnt feel any diff than the few workouts a week i did my first season. i've built up slowly enough that it feels the same training wise.

an old cycling quote sums up well how training doesnt feel diff, the outcome just changes as you progress: "it doesn't get any easier, you just go faster"

Sorry I have been AWOL for a few days. I was out of town in New Orleans doing a half marathon. I have been working on my running recently (the last month) and have PR'd twice in two weeks. This run on Sunday was by far the hardest race that I have ever run. I went out too fast and tried to hang on for 11.5 miles. I got my PR and had a BREAKTHROUGH experience. It was tough but I have a little more confidence at pushing the pace HARD. New PR of 1:33:53 - if interested you can read more in intricate detail on my blog - http://hubcitytri.blogspot.com.

FYI - I am from Texas but lived in Indiana (Terre Haute - such a lovely town) for 12 years. I have now lived in Mississippi for 3 years and work at a University - two weeks off for Christmas! A quarter inch of snow will shut this town down!

Diet - I still struggle with diet and I have vowed to drop 10 pounds by the Mardi Gras Marathon on 02/28. Many years ago I was quite overweight and I was able to lose it through eating smart and exercise - this is not rocket science. I still eat multiple meals a day (like a hobbit - breakfast, second breakfast, lunch, snack, dinner, and snack). All of the meals are between 300- 400 calories. I eat a lot of oatmeal early in the day with nut butter (peanut or almond) and then switch over to more lean protein as the day progresses. Dinner is almost always boneless-skinless grilled chicken breast with steamed vegetables.

Exercise - Two-a-days are the norm for me. I exercise every morning before work between 45 minutes and 1:30 hours and then I go to the gym at lunch for about an hour. Sometimes the two-a-days are all running but usually I ride the bike (outside or on the trainer) in the morning and run at lunch. I have taken a month long break from swimming and need to jump back in the water. I get longer workouts on the weekends and I struggle with recovery days. I need to be smarter and schedule these days off - most of my days off are either a one day taper before a race or a one day recovery after a race. I need to train smarter not harder!

I basically taught myself how to swim a couple of years ago - trial by fire - I had already signed up for my first triathlon. Swimming has been difficult but I have made a lot of progress. My 1000 yard time is just under 16:00 minutes and my pace averages around 1:37 per 100 yards. It took me a long time to start making progress and then the times dropped from the close to 2 minutes per 100 quickly. I still have a long ways to go but I am working on it. I have told myself that I am going to join the Y just for the Master Swim but I have not done so yet. I think with a masters swim group my times will again drop dramatically! For what it is worth I have a very poor kick in the swim and when I do kick it is exhausting. Kick drills are ridiculous - they are slow and hard - I would rather run quarter mile repeats than do kick drills.


Edited by microspawn 2009-12-23 8:09 AM

It seems I am asking a lot of swim questions right now and here's another one.

Would it be beneficial to practice other strokes besides freestyle?  If the answer is yes I am going to be rather embarrassed with at least 2 of the other strokes.  I might be able to do the back stroke "ok" (at least I won't look like a fish out of water anyway) but the breast might cause me some knee issues from the torque/twisting and the fly............Well, the picture in my head is not a graceful butterfly fluttering about, but more like the cocoon being wallered around in as the butterfly tries to free itself.  That's what I would look like!  (Fly happens to be my daughters best stroke and I love watching her swim it, but me......)

Sorry I've been so silent lately. Just trying to take it all in, since I'm completely new to the sport, and I don't even know enough to know what to ask, if you know what I mean.

I mentioned this in my profile post, but it may've been overlooked, but I was wondering when I should add hill intervals to my workouts. At what stage, and intensity, etc? My tri in April is pretty hilly, and I figure I should probably somehow prepare for that rather than just doing the flat roads, which is what I've been working out on lately.

Thanks!
Kasia

Dirk -

I have enjoyed reading your training logs - very detailed! Good job!

James

David - The DVD is 1:20 and I only did 1 hour since that's what my training planned called for; but I'm currently up to about 3 hrs on long outdoor rides.  But yes, the intensity was more than I am able to do as far as spinning 100 and over.  I did back down the gears and simply did the best I could.

This may sound really stupid but perhaps others on here don't know this either.  On the trainer DVD when it said to use the big gear on the front and 15 on the back, I had no idea which was 15.  I discovered via the Internet that it is the number of teeth on the ring.  Ok, so now I don't know how many teeth are on each of my nine cog set rings.  I could find nothing in the manual or online so I had to actually count them.  I guess this is part of getting to know your bike!

I love the quote!  That goes for all three sports...



Dirk - I took swim lessons back in July and the butterfly stroke is the one that most baffled me!  I mean, why?  Why would anyone ever want to swim like that?  But sure enough there is an older man at the pool who gets right beside me and butteflies back and forth forever!  I swollow a LOT more water when that guy is beside me.  I only do breast stroke and backstroke as part of cooldown, but my current training plan did throw in a few backstroke lengths today for some reason.  Personally, I don't see any point other than to work your muscles in a different direction to give them a break.

microspawn - Whoa! That's a totally AWESOME time on your half mary!! Congrats!

I also work at a college and off for 2 weeks!  But I function better on a strict schedule, so I hope I can stay on track with training and eating. 

What were you doing to drop your swim times from 2 min?  Or did the drop simply come from time in the pool?  I hate kick drills too; I feel like a dead fish.  But practice makes perfect.

Kasia - Are you using a specific training plan?  Some training plans include hill workouts.  My route is flat and I've neglected hills because of the inconvenience of having to drive somewhere.  When I got to my first half mary a few weeks ago they were selling shirts that said, "Flat is for Sissies."  I knew the course was hilly, but hilly enough to sell t-shirts!?!  I gave up on my goal and decided to just run my best.  I figured that course was going to kick my behind.  Somehow I met my goal which was simply to < 2, but I sure realized the importance of hill training that day.   

James,
Thanks.  I try to be pretty specific and detailed after reading some stuff on Runners World a few years ago about gaining some insight about past training and how it can benefit to review it.  I download my log every few months or so and review them occasionally to check how I have been doing and celebrate successes I had forgotten about.

You also noticed I write about my knee (left) a lot.  6 yrs. ago I had an ACL reconstruction and in Feb. of this year had another piece of the medial meniscus removed.  That is why I pay special attention to this detail.  If I can use old logs to gain insight into what I did to make it better or worse.......

Maria,
I def. get the change in muscular use but I guess my pride is more important to me normally.  I might be able to do the breast ok but the above knee problems make me nervous about doing it.  The fly, when done correctly, is an incredibly fluid and beautiful stroke (IMO) but I would probably be kicked out of the pool for life if the wrong person saw me doing it.

Kasia,
Welcome, we're both newbies to this sport.  I have been running for about 4 years and if my knee would take it I would be VERY run focused.  I have done 3 half marathons and was training for a full mary and a forth half when more knee problems cropped up again in May of this year.  The biggest piece of advice I could give you would be to listen to those who would tell you to take time off (recovery days) and cross train.  I did not do much listening and have had to suffer through some stupid injuries.

The hill interval workouts you are asking about could be done a lot of different ways.  In northern Indiana the closest thing to a hill is the elevation change from the road to my garage.  Hardly capable of any hill workouts!  Anyway, I do Tempo runs about once every other week as my primary speed work.  (I run 3 times a week normally.)  I think that would give you some work training "specifically" for hills.  I don't know what your running abilities are but you could simply work some hills into your usual running routes too.  This would give you a feel for what a race might feel like, without the race pace of course.  If I had hills this would be how I would work hills in.  Put some in the easy's and a few in the long's too.  Right now I would like to have some hills to run in, sounds like fun.  Ultimately I think David would be able to answer this question  better than I.

its Christmas eve almost, who's got to finish their shopping?  I am done!  I finished today but it was really done a while ago.  Today I just had to take my wife's car to the window tint place and have tint and pin striping installed.  The bad part is the wife gets part of her Christmas early.  Oh well, 'tis the season.

Maria - I'm using a 20-week Olympic plan out of a book I found: Triathlon Magazine's Essential Week-by-Week Training Guide

I like that it has a bunch of levels of workouts, so I can do more advanced stuff for swimming, while still starting slow for running. And it's super detailed, which I really like. BUT it doesn't have any hill-specific workouts, just times and intensities for running and biking.

I'm lucky in that I live near hills, in fact there's a dreaded hill I have to bike up everyday for work, which is probably why I haven't been into the office for a few months now (I work on my laptop, and as my boss once said, "I don't care if you're on a cruise ship in Mexico, as long as you get it done."), so I'm lucky in that respect.

Anywhos, I definitely need to work on hills before this thing because if I don't, I'm afraid that I'm not going to finish at all. Pretty much going from 0 to Olympic in 4 months.


Dirk - I thought I was the only newbie in this group, based on other people's posts. Glad to hear that's not the case

As for cross-training...I'm afraid I have too much on my plate. I'm still playing indoor soccer and racquetball, each once a week, and I just signed up for an Irish dance class also once a week. It's now getting into ski season, so that also means snowboarding 2-3 Saturdays a month. I have no idea why I decided to do a triathlon on top of all this, so I think I may have to cut back on the other things to have some sort of sanity.

BUT, there is most definitely a recovery day (or maybe more) a week in there where I don't do anything. I'm trying to think of ways to substitute one of these other activities for "official" tri training so I don't have 2 workouts each day, but that may be unavoidable, especially since I need lots of work on the bike and run. So much to do, so little time...

I started a blog a little over a year ago to track my workouts and my experiences while training for an ironman. The blog is for me and it has allowed me to look back and see how I was feeling or what workouts I did and the results. I am very glad that I started it – it is my workout log!
As far as swimming – I think it was time in the pool and working on balance and form that allowed for me to get a little faster ( I have a long ways to go ). But when I started it was such a struggle – I was fighting the water for every inch. There was no gliding – my hips and legs were dropping and I had to pull them through the water. I read the Total Immersion book but I did not really follow all of the drills. The book said to slow down – and then slow down some more. It was not working for me – if I slowed down I sank. Then one day I think I understood what they were talking about – it felt like I was swimming downhill. That was a breakthrough for me – I was much more comfortable in the water. I also took a ‘Learn to Swim’ class at the college. It helps just by having someone watch my stroke and make observations. This allowed for me to cut a little more time off.
I do not think that I got that much faster just that I got a lot more comfortable. But I was swimming faster – and this is important – I was swimming faster and I was putting out much less effort. Previously, in races, my heart rate would be the highest during the swim! Not good.

James

all,
Got to Florida about two hours ago after a 22 hour drive with my brother, first run i the heat in, not used to this!

will try and get everything answered now, if i miss something sorry!

Kasia, i would try and include hills in as much of your training as you can. this doesnt mean you need to be doing hill repeats, or intervals on htem, but the more you get used to going up, and down, them the easier it will get. as your plan calls for workouts like that (or any short hard workout) you can do those on the hills as well.

maria, the gears on a ibke work and are reffered to like this: the gears on the front are called the chainrings. You have either a doubkle or triple (2 or 3 rings). they are just called the big and small ring. the gearing is determined by the number of teeth. standard gearing is 53x39 (53 teeth on the big one, 39 on the small). a lot of bikes are now coming with what are called compact cranks. these have a smaller ratio, normally 50x34.

the gears on the back are called the cassette. the gearing there described the same way. most bikes come with a 12x25 or 27. you can make endless combos though to suit your needs, and some other common ones include: 12x23, 25, 27 and rarely 12x21.
for flatter areas you'll often see more with ones like this 11x21 or 23. the smaller number sets like 11x21 and 23 offer much closer/smaller changes in gears so its much easier to fine tune the gear you are in. where its flat this is a big advantage, people that live near hills though are going to want the bigger spread and more gear options of the bigger numbers.


On the swimming front: If you have the time/help to learn the other strokes well, it will make you a better all around swimmer. that said i cant do anything but an ugly backstroke for alternate strokes. Learn to do freestyle WELL, then look at the others if you have the time.

DO learn to kick well though, it will make you a better swimmer, you will be faster, and more effiecent in the water.

I may ask my daughter to help me with the different strokes in the High School off season (she's at the height of the season now).  Her coaches have used her as a technical stroke demonstrator for several years so I am sure she can help me. 

As far as kicking, I know I need to work on leg strength.  My left quad is still lagging in strength from the knee trouble I have had this year (a lot of atrophy) and I will be able to work toward a better kick after Christmas.  (I know I am getting some fins under the tree.)  Currently when I do kick work I steer to the right because my left leg is week.  Obviously something to work on.

hows everyone doing?

All good here in sunny Florida! Getting in the last cycling and running miles for 2010 and chomping at the bit to start swimming at the Y come first week of January.

I am re-reading Total Immersion to remember tips for good swimming form. Anyone else read it or have any experience with Total Immersion? Did it help you or not? Pros/cons?

Happy New Year to all the Newbz!

Hey KC –

Wow – 11,500 + cycling miles in 2009. That is HUGE! Also, I guess I am doing it backwards from you. I finished at ironman this year and now I am training for a marathon (I want to qualify for Boston).

I did read the Total Immersion book and I think it helped. It took me from a really bad swimmer to an average swimmer. It allowed for me to correct my buoyancy and form in the water. But that is where I think the book stops – it really focuses on long slow glides and being efficient in the water. That actually worked well for me in the ironman swim. I should not say this but the swim portion of my ironman was a little boring – granted I was not burning up the course (1:15) but I got out of the water feeling almost refreshed. Nothing like the hard repeats in the pool when you can’t even lift your arms to wash your hair in the shower. If interested - My swim race report from Ironman Louisville - http://hubcitytri.blogspot.com/2009/08/ironman-louisville-race-repo...

Running:

I took Christmas day off from the run and just rode the trainer. I have been trying to build my cycling base up – this has been a lot of steady state riding at moderately / low intensity. I also rode the trainer the day after Christmas but I was ready to hit the pavement. I am trying to make most of my running miles count – no garbage miles. Having read a number of books they always seem to state that there are really only three runs that push improvement.

1. Hard Intervals at or above VO2MAX – example Yasso 800’s or ¼ miles or mile repeats.
2. Tempo runs at or just above LT (lactate threshold / anaerobic threshold – your maximum intensity that you can hold for about an hour).
3. Distance runs – long runs at a steady pace

Everything else is supposed to be extraneous – although if you talk to anyone that is fast they will tell you that there is no substitute for mileage. Go figure.

Anyway that being said I was going to go for a tempo run at just above what I believe to be my LT – which is in the mid 170’s by heart rate. This is a hard area to run – a hard area for me to sustain. It is easy for me to let my mind wander and slow down a bit. It is easy for me to think about the discomfort and want to slow down a bit. It is easy to want to stop.

Last Tuesday (Monday was an off running day following the half marathon PR on Sunday) I tried to see how I would have felt / faired if I would have raced at my own pace (instead of following a faster runner and blowing up and suffering through 11.5 miles of the race). I set the ‘virtual trainer’ on the GPS watch for 5 miles at a 7 minute pace. I could not do it. I gave in to the voices – my legs were dead and I was hurting. I turned around at 1.5 miles and slowed way down.

Well, yesterday I decided to not look at the pace (much) and I wanted to do a mile warm up and then push the pace at LT for 4 miles. Then follow up with a mile cool down. The temperature was only in the 50’s but I was looking for excuses and felt cold. I warmed up a little during the ‘warm up’ but my heart rate seemed a little high for the pace I was running. My feet were hurting and I stopped to adjust the laces. I picked the pace up at the one mile mark and it was hard. I already doubted myself. I pushed on and it was still hard – but I was not going to be defeated this time. I had a real mental toughness BREAKTHROUGH with this run. No – I never fell into some kind of bliss zone – it was hard the entire time but I did not stop and I did not slow down (well the first mile was a little fast). I passed a guy and his daughter who were riding bikes – yes they were riding slow – but the guy said that he had never been passed by a jogger before. We were going close to the same pace and I could not slow down – not even just a little bit. I HAD to keep it up!

I got a huge amount of satisfaction from this run! Tempo runs are always hard for me – especially when I run them alone. It is much easier for me to run hard during a race or with someone who is a little faster than me. Others really push me and allow for me to excel. When out there by myself it is a different story.

Miles –
WU – 1 mile
1. 6:21 HR AVE 168
2. 6:40 HR AVE 175
3. 6:39 HR AVE 177
4. 6:40 HR AVE 178
CD – 1 mile

Doing good but back in Ohio to do the Christmas thing with the families.  I am hoping to get some good swims starting tomorrow.  I also will run a couple of times before heading home later this week.  No cycling for most of the week since there was no room for a pencil in the back of my truck much less a bike. 

We had way to much stuff to bring down hewre this year.  Honestly I hate the traveling thing around Christmas because all of the packing and unpacking,going from place to place and (at the in-laws) becoming a 2 pack a day smoker for 2 days.  I enjoy the time with the fam's but ther are other aspects I could certainly do without.

Alright, did a pretty good through the holidays of not gorging myself and just sipping and nibbling, even worked out xmas morning (did some wii fit for fun).  anyhow, some more random questions on my upcoming race.

I originally set a goal for a triathlon in june, that has a .62 mile swim, 17.5 mile bike , and 3.2 run.  That is scheduled for June 27th.  I was looking at doing perhaps a duathlon in may, a 5k in march or feb to just get the body and mind use to the whole environment, but saw that there was a shorter triathlon in may, sameday as the duathlon, which has a .31 swim, 15 mile bike, then 5k. So, my question becomes, should I attempt to do the earlier one(shorter one) and try the slightly longer one 6 weeks later?  I think the .31 mile swim works out to be about 500 meters or so. Remember this will be my first triathlon event, so I don't want to attempt to over do it or something.

Also, the bike portion.  I have a road bike, fairly old and lacking all the bells and whistles that I see on the bikes I have been looking at online.  Anyhow, I'm not sure that I want to invest a ton of money into a new bike, I've been thinking about just adding some aerobars to my bike now and getting a tune up, since my races are fairly short in distance (15 to 17 miles).  This question seemed much more clear in my head, but basically looking for any advice or tips for a newby on the bike portion of the triathlon.

I found this bike at EMS and thought it might be a good investment, although I have also been told not to really invest in a bike until I have completed a few triathlons.

http://www.ems.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3655594&cp=3677345.3737439.3696715



Looking forward to your responses..........and lots more questions to come.



Edited by mbeall2 2009-12-27 11:27 AM