First IM tng plan and longest run is 16 miles???? (Page 4)

Guys and girls

I am so thankful I came across this thread having only very recently signed up. I am UK based, and doing my 1st IM (IMUK) on 31st July. I will only have had 6 months to train, and have never run a marathon before. So, for me, this IM is all about the experience, atmosphere and 'enjoying' it (ha!). I am naturally a slow runner and will prrob be looking at 5-5.5. hours for the run (and prob 7-7.5 bike) - I realise many of you would be back home tucked up in bed by the time I get over the finish line but hey - gotta start somewhere!

I really was going to try and run the whole marathon distance, including my longest plan run which is 3:00. But it seems that this really is not the way to go - indeed, I will very unlikely suceed to even try.

So, may I ask for a quick bit of advice on run/walk training, based on the feed station spacing at IMUK. The feed stations will be every 3 miles. So would it be best to train for 3 miles (lets say I manage 10 min/mile) and walk for say a minute, or spilt it up into something along the lines of a few minutes run/ 1 min walk for example? And I take it, on the walk, you should really keep your cadence as high as poss and the pace as fast as poss?

Many thanks

Until this past Saturday and Sunday I thought I would be able to run the complete marathon. I have been great running and for once am almost below 200 pounds.   Friday I had a lights out run.  Fresh legs felt great.  Saturday I ran in the heat of the day.  Boy did I hurt in 91 degree weather for the 15 mile run shuffle.  Sunday I did 100miles then a 6 mile run shuffle death march. 

I will adapt a new plan for my run training to include some walks.  I would rather plan my walks then my walks be planned for me.  It is my first IM so my wife tells me I should be happy to finish I will be happy to finish.

I didn't read any of the other posts, so sorry if it's a repeat...

Here are my basic thoughts when I ran into the same issue as the OP.  In fact, I commented on it and got responses from the plan author and was given their reasoning...

They indicated that what was MORE important than the run miles, was getting the body ready for a LONG day racing.  That it was more important to maybe get in a bike or swim the same day you get your long run in.

Let me caveate...  I was training for time, and based on the time I was supposed to run (2:30 - 3hrs) I could only get in 16-17 miles, so I asked if that was a problem.  Again, then answer was, it was more important to get the time in, and worry less about the actual miles.

Would getting a couple 20 miles runs in be bad?  Of course not.  I would LOVE to be able to get 20 miles in less than 3 hours in training and I can't wait to get to that point.

Also, I would say that getting a couple 20 mile runs in is almost manditory for an open marathon, but maybe not as important if you are just trying to finish an IM. 

belated follow up (since it's been resurrected) on the run/walk method.

Like I said I managed a 3:32 IM marathon debut -- attribute that totally to high volume run training, solid (shorter but hard) bike training, and smart pacing of the race.  I did not plan to walk during my IM marathon... but I did about 5 times... my guess is about 10 minutes.  2 of those were after stopped-in-my-tracks hamstring cramps, and 3ish (I don't remember exactly) were at aid stations that came after the first cramp session.

I was well trained for the run and had a good sense of where the redline would be for me... and I intentionally gambled with it.  In retrospect, I paced my run just a little too hard for my fitness, and suspect I could have paced sub 3:30 and done it... instead I paced for about 3:20 and walked 10 minutes.

But the real point of all this rambling is this.  Although I didn't do any run/walk training, I did incorporate a significant amount of walking as "active recovery" into my IM training.  I had "briskly walked" a ton of miles (about 30 hours or over 100 miles according to my logs) during the 6 months leading up to the IM.  95% of those were 2 mile walks to/from the train station/office.  And I do believe that even for a 3:30ish IMer, those walks had tremendous benefits -- in accelerated recovery (so I could workout again sooner), in mechanical adaptation (joints, ligaments, tendons, etc), and in learning to use a quick walk to ease fatigue/soreness.

Many of those walks were very uncomfortable when they started... I often did a long run on tuesday mornings, and then the 2 mile walk to work about 2 hours later.  That walk often felt like I was going to quit when it started, but by the time I was done I felt MUCH better than before I started.  I remember that same feeling as I started walking after being stopped in my tracks in the IM marathon... like I knew exactly how to loosten up my legs with a brisk walk... and before long I was running again.

I admit I can't prove a lot of that, but it seemed to me that those 100 miles of walk-training benefited me on race day, even if I was at the pointy end of the AG field.

Josh,

Interesting input on walking while IM training and how you feel it improved your recovery.

I have thought about total time on your feet for last couple of years in regards to IM training. Some triathletes are on their feet for their normal careers some walk and/or stand a lot (doctors, nurses, teachers, ect) and often much of their non training time. Others have desk jobs and spend less time of their feet in their non training part of their day.  Does more time walking  and standing in your normal life, help build your resiliency which could potentially improve ability to keep going when fatigued.

Just something I have been thinking and reading a bit about last couple of years....

I've thought about "time on your feet" training too, Kathy.  I did quite a few days of that, unintentionally, trying to combine both of my hobbies (triathlon and boating).

I would regularly squeeze in an early morning workout before a planned boating day.  On my boat, I spend the entire time standing (while driving for better visibility, or while fishing while we're stopped).  And when driving through chop (constant on the chesapeake bay), my legs are constantly flexed and taking acting as shock absorbers as the boat skips over waves.  Only time I'm not standing is when I'm waterskiing or wakeboarding, which counts as time on your feet (not smart from injury prevention though, if you stink like I do).

I remember being far more fatigued after a 2 hour run and 12 hour fishing trip than I did after some 6 hour bike rides.

KathyG

when reading Josh's response this is what I was thinking.  I am a PE teacher and the only time I sit during the day is lunch and my confrence time.  I have told my wife that I think I recover well because I am on my feet most of the time.  I am not sure if it is correct, but I like thinking it is. 

I have to thank Josh for sending me here from the IMCDA thread. We on the IMCDA thread and Ga Forum have been debating the best way to skin the cat and I think this thread helps folks get a good sense of what the prevailing thoughts are. This is unfamiliar territory for someone like me that comes from the FIRST method of run less run fast and got a BQ first time on the standalone mary. However, within the IM training plan, I am making strides on adapting the run more/run slow model, and hoping that it pays off.

One thing I have also done that I have not heard mentioned in this thread but also was drilled into me last year after watching BryanCD kill IMAZ in 09 was to run negative splits in training. I may be mistaken but I recall that he talked alot about running your last 3 miles hard as being one of the things he credited for his IM mary success.

Last year, Shanks had me run lots of runs as predominantly easy pace then nailing the last bits a bit more uptempo. I credited that with taking my IM mary time from 4:1x to 3:53, but that wasn't enough. Thats why I have upped my volume.Hopefully it all pays off...it has for many on here and slowtwitch. I will let y'all know...

FYI: 160 in Feb, 180 miles in March, and on target for 200 this month.

Don't step back on your rides.  I would just step back on the intensity and keep it in the zone 2 range as you start to build on your IM base.  Use what you have to your advantage.  What happens is that many programs start with the illusion that the athlete is coming off a no work off-season.

Running a large volume takes a toll on the body and it takes longer to recover from.  That is not to say that you should not run long.  I would put 2 long IM runs as part of your race simulation during the Build.  During base you are looking to get up to around 3 hrs of running.