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2012-12-26 10:12 AM
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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
sbreaux - 2012-12-26 10:54 AM

bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 8:34 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 9:26 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:27 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:23 AM  So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Again, a bolt action .30-06 hunting rifle is far deadlier than a .223. We fought an entire war with them. Your ban does not prevent this guy from doing the same thing with a hunting rifle.

So, explain again to me why you need the Bushmaster to spray bullets around a school room? If to 06 is a better rifle?
Spraying bullets? It's one pull of the happy button per shell. It's not a flippin' one pull 10 bullets. He would/could have done the same damage with 2 9mm pistols. Just because something sounds bad/looks menacing, doesn't make it so. Someone with a .30-06 and a scope can take out a group of people from 400 yds away, with ease. I'm more scared of a sniper than I am of a guy with a .223 or even a handgun.

I've stayed out of the gun threads (and most others) because I am on the fence, but would like some explanation to the bolded.  I am not a gun expert, but have a couple of semi-auto shotguns.  Isn't the bolded not exactly true?  It is my impression that a .30-06 is a bolt action type of gun, so while one could shoot someone 400yds away, the likelihood of it taking out a group of people at that distance is highly unlikely due to the shooter having to release the bolt to discharge the shell, reloading, then scoping in at that distance.  By that time, the people being targeted would run for cover.   Truthfully, I would be more scared with someone holding a semi auto rifle with a large clip (regardless if the bullet has less power) than someone with a single shot rifle that takes a few more seconds to reload.   And before I get flamed, this really is an honest question.  Hopefully the gun experts can enlighten me on the types of .30-06.



2012-12-26 10:12 AM
in reply to: #4548300

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
powerman - 2012-12-26 10:09 AM

sbreaux - 2012-12-26 8:54 AM
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 8:34 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 9:26 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:27 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:23 AM  So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Again, a bolt action .30-06 hunting rifle is far deadlier than a .223. We fought an entire war with them. Your ban does not prevent this guy from doing the same thing with a hunting rifle.

So, explain again to me why you need the Bushmaster to spray bullets around a school room? If to 06 is a better rifle?
Spraying bullets? It's one pull of the happy button per shell. It's not a flippin' one pull 10 bullets. He would/could have done the same damage with 2 9mm pistols. Just because something sounds bad/looks menacing, doesn't make it so. Someone with a .30-06 and a scope can take out a group of people from 400 yds away, with ease. I'm more scared of a sniper than I am of a guy with a .223 or even a handgun.

I've stayed out of the gun threads (and most others) because I am on the fence, but would like some explanation to the bolded.  I am not a gun expert, but have a couple of semi-auto shotguns.  Isn't the bolded not exactly true?  It is my impression that a .30-06 is a bolt action type of gun, so while one could shoot someone 400yds away, the likelihood of it taking out a group of people at that distance is highly unlikely due to the shooter having to release the bolt to discharge the shell, reloading, then scoping in at that distance.  By that time, the people being targeted would run for cover.   Truthfully, I would be more scared with someone holding a semi auto rifle with a large clip (regardless if the bullet has less power) than someone with a single shot rifle that takes a few more seconds to reload.   And before I get flamed, this really is an honest question.  Hopefully the gun experts can enlighten me on the types of .30-06.

Do you remember the Texas university shooting? A sniper with a hunting 6mm bolt action rifle, a .357 revolver, and a M1 carbine. 14 dead, 32 wounded.

Do you remember the DC sniper? People were paralized from that not knowing wher ehe was going to strike next. Very hard to catch.

You can't account for everything.... most people that die are killed with multiple shots... fewer rounds in a mag right... but it is a low power caliber(relatively), and those that get hit once live. A road rage incident here turned deadly... a guy got his .30-06 hunting rifle and shot 3 men in their car that chased him to his house. Each man was pronounced dead on the scene from one shot.



It's like we're on the same page today.....I just referenced Charles Whitman and magazines.

2012-12-26 10:12 AM
in reply to: #4548297

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 9:06 AM
sbreaux - 2012-12-26 9:54 AM
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 8:34 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 9:26 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:27 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:23 AM  So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Again, a bolt action .30-06 hunting rifle is far deadlier than a .223. We fought an entire war with them. Your ban does not prevent this guy from doing the same thing with a hunting rifle.

So, explain again to me why you need the Bushmaster to spray bullets around a school room? If to 06 is a better rifle?
Spraying bullets? It's one pull of the happy button per shell. It's not a flippin' one pull 10 bullets. He would/could have done the same damage with 2 9mm pistols. Just because something sounds bad/looks menacing, doesn't make it so. Someone with a .30-06 and a scope can take out a group of people from 400 yds away, with ease. I'm more scared of a sniper than I am of a guy with a .223 or even a handgun.

I've stayed out of the gun threads (and most others) because I am on the fence, but would like some explanation to the bolded.  I am not a gun expert, but have a couple of semi-auto shotguns.  Isn't the bolded not exactly true?  It is my impression that a .30-06 is a bolt action type of gun, so while one could shoot someone 400yds away, the likelihood of it taking out a group of people at that distance is highly unlikely due to the shooter having to release the bolt to discharge the shell, reloading, then scoping in at that distance.  By that time, the people being targeted would run for cover.   Truthfully, I would be more scared with someone holding a semi auto rifle with a large clip (regardless if the bullet has less power) than someone with a single shot rifle that takes a few more seconds to reload.   And before I get flamed, this really is an honest question.  Hopefully the gun experts can enlighten me on the types of .30-06.

Group of people waiting to enter a sporting event.....first shot no one knows where it came from. 4 seconds later, 2nd shot panic sets in, 4 seconds later 3rd shot....then 4th, then 5th (this is within 30 seconds). You still have no idea where the shooter is....and you're fish in a barrell. Charles Whitman comes to mind.... 14 dead and 30 wounded. And what difference does a high count magazine have (or reload clip). If I have a magazine that hold 30....what makes that any more dangerous than having 3 mags that hold 10. Reload is a "release button, mag drops, new mag in, and hammer back".....that's less than 4 seconds.

No difference, they are both equally dangerous.  Again, I would rather be up against someone who has to chamber each bullet than someone who can indiscriminately just pull the trigger as fast as one can, if ever in that situation....

2012-12-26 10:14 AM
in reply to: #4548241

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

LOL...sure, that's what I'm saying.  I've deterred a TON of crime with a gun....I'm sure it works the same for a private citizen if the need comes up.

For my part, I can't participate much longer in these "discussions".....they have dived off into ridiculousness IMO.  The second amendment will not be repealed, my life won't be affected, and we'll keep hunting/shootiung as we like.

Oh yeah, I heard this week that 30 round AR-15 mags were going for 100.00 a piece.....I've got 3 if anyone is interested at that price. Laughing

2012-12-26 10:17 AM
in reply to: #4548310

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 10:14 AM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

LOL...sure, that's what I'm saying.  I've deterred a TON of crime with a gun....I'm sure it works the same for a private citizen if the need comes up.

For my part, I can't participate much longer in these "discussions".....they have dived off into ridiculousness IMO.  The second amendment will not be repealed, my life won't be affected, and we'll keep hunting/shootiung as we like.

Oh yeah, I heard this week that 30 round AR-15 mags were going for 100.00 a piece.....I've got 3 if anyone is interested at that price. Laughing



At least we agree on something.
2012-12-26 10:17 AM
in reply to: #4548300

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Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
powerman - 2012-12-26 10:09 AM
sbreaux - 2012-12-26 8:54 AM
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 8:34 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 9:26 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:27 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:23 AM  So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Again, a bolt action .30-06 hunting rifle is far deadlier than a .223. We fought an entire war with them. Your ban does not prevent this guy from doing the same thing with a hunting rifle.

So, explain again to me why you need the Bushmaster to spray bullets around a school room? If to 06 is a better rifle?
Spraying bullets? It's one pull of the happy button per shell. It's not a flippin' one pull 10 bullets. He would/could have done the same damage with 2 9mm pistols. Just because something sounds bad/looks menacing, doesn't make it so. Someone with a .30-06 and a scope can take out a group of people from 400 yds away, with ease. I'm more scared of a sniper than I am of a guy with a .223 or even a handgun.

I've stayed out of the gun threads (and most others) because I am on the fence, but would like some explanation to the bolded.  I am not a gun expert, but have a couple of semi-auto shotguns.  Isn't the bolded not exactly true?  It is my impression that a .30-06 is a bolt action type of gun, so while one could shoot someone 400yds away, the likelihood of it taking out a group of people at that distance is highly unlikely due to the shooter having to release the bolt to discharge the shell, reloading, then scoping in at that distance.  By that time, the people being targeted would run for cover.   Truthfully, I would be more scared with someone holding a semi auto rifle with a large clip (regardless if the bullet has less power) than someone with a single shot rifle that takes a few more seconds to reload.   And before I get flamed, this really is an honest question.  Hopefully the gun experts can enlighten me on the types of .30-06.

Do you remember the Texas university shooting? A sniper with a hunting 6mm bolt action rifle, a .357 revolver, and a M1 carbine. 14 dead, 32 wounded.

Do you remember the DC sniper? People were paralized from that not knowing wher ehe was going to strike next. Very hard to catch.

You can't account for everything.... most people that die are killed with multiple shots... fewer rounds in a mag right... but it is a low power caliber(relatively), and those that get hit once live. A road rage incident here turned deadly... a guy got his .30-06 hunting rifle and shot 3 men in their car that chased him to his house. Each man was pronounced dead on the scene from one shot.

Military snipers use bolt action rifles almost exclusively (M40A5 is the standard) unless they use the M2 Barrett.

You can get a more reliable and accurate fire from a bolt than from a semi-auto. While you're clambering a round, you're acquiring the next target, taking a breath, sight picture, etc. .223 isn't a great round for long shots. We qualified on a 500 yard target with iron sights with that round, but the bullet has lost a lot of its force by that point. The bullet starts to tumble instead of keeping its rifled rotation. The 30-06 and 7mm have a lot better rifling at that range.



2012-12-26 10:19 AM
in reply to: #4548299

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:09 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:56 AM
jgaither - 2012-12-26 8:43 AM

Leaving a gun in your home unsecured and unattended is irresponsible.  There is no way around it.  It just is.

if you want some statistics here is a decent source: Caroline Wolf Harlow, Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November 2001

 

It doesn't lay the blame at the foot of stolen firearms but it gives an explanation as to where access is provided.  Most by family and friends I believe.  Safes do not just prevent access by thieves, but by friends and family also.

It isn't "unsecured". All my doors and windows are locked, and I have a 55 lb, and a 75lb dog. My fire arm is secured 100% of the time. A floor safe is no safer if they break in and kill my dogs. It's never going to be Ft. Knox, and no home in America is. That is why it is unenforcable.

If I leave my loaded firearm on the table and the kid down the street grabs it in my house playing with my grand kid in for the weekend... I can be criminally charged... that is an unsecured weapon. But I don't have kids in my house, and when we have company, it goes in the safe. Seriously.

I don't think you're the person to whom he is referring. You're way more intelligent than a lot of gun owners out there and a lot DO leave their guns lying around. In your state it may be a crime to leave a gun where some kid can get to it, but it's not so in all states. These are the types of laws we need to enact and enforce. As I've said, let's make the punishment for being an irresponsible gun owner extremely harsh, then more people would do as you do and lock up their guns to do all they can to prevent someone from getting them.

I will be honest... perhaps I can become complacent, just because I do not need to keep my gun locked up. We do not have children over. If we have a party or "open house" I put it in the safe because it just "keeps honest people honest". There was a time when a fire arm in my house was not a good idea... and I did not own one for that reason. It isn't a reason now, so I do.

But I am human, and I would hate to have complacency turn bad. I do not have a problem with one in the chamber. My wife does... I don't keep a round in the chamber. If she had a problem with it in the house, it would not be in the house. Everyones situation is different. There are other housholds where everyone in the house knows and uses guns and they are laying all over the place. Again... kids used to hunt before school and went to school with it on the rack in the back window. That wasn't a problem... you would a have a SWAT team called today for that.

I really do not mean to argue that I have no responsibility... I certainly do. I just have much fewer potential problems than most, and if I had other problems, then I would have to handle them responsibly.



Edited by powerman 2012-12-26 10:27 AM
2012-12-26 10:20 AM
in reply to: #4548282

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:56 AM
jgaither - 2012-12-26 8:43 AM

Leaving a gun in your home unsecured and unattended is irresponsible.  There is no way around it.  It just is.

if you want some statistics here is a decent source: Caroline Wolf Harlow, Firearm Use by Offenders, Bureau of Justice Statistics, November 2001

 

It doesn't lay the blame at the foot of stolen firearms but it gives an explanation as to where access is provided.  Most by family and friends I believe.  Safes do not just prevent access by thieves, but by friends and family also.

It isn't "unsecured". All my doors and windows are locked, and I have a 55 lb, and a 75lb dog. My fire arm is secured 100% of the time. A floor safe is no safer if they break in and kill my dogs. It's never going to be Ft. Knox, and no home in America is. That is why it is unenforcable.

If I leave my loaded firearm on the table and the kid down the street grabs it in my house playing with my grand kid in for the weekend... I can be criminally charged... that is an unsecured weapon. But I don't have kids in my house, and when we have company, it goes in the safe. Seriously.

Instead of attacking you personally, which is how it would come across and not how I intend it, I will tel youl why mine stay locked up 100% of the time when not in use.  Use can have different definitions as I know people who consider sitting around in their home as the firearm being "in use as a protective device".  Use does not always entail "at the gun range", and like most gun owners I DO consider "within reach" as secured.  My gun secured with a trigger lock at home while I am not there/out of reach and otherwise unattended does me, nor anyone else any benefit.  There are only 2 things that can happen  a) nothing or b) it get stolen or taken by a friend or family member.  It will not magically get up and defend me or my home.  It will either sit there or be taken.  Inside a safe it can not be taken by someone who does not know the combination.  I can guarantee that the only option for it is a) nothing.  Therefore why are the reasons I wouldn't put it away?  I either 1) think nothing is going to happen and therefore have logically eliminated the possibility of option b or 2) I am too lazy/in a hurry/forgetful to put it away.  option 2 results in irresponsible gun ownership, of which I prefer not to partake.  So I go with option 1.  If I truly believe that nothign is going to happen, then why would I have it out for personal protection?  Therefore if I have it for personal protection "just in case something happens" then I need to secure it in a safe upon my absence "just in case something happens".  If nothing is truly going to happen then I don't need to have it anyway because I just eliminated the possibility of "just in case" and it should be stored away properly according to normal protocol.

Stats: 40% of crimes involving guns occur by someone using a firearm belonging to a friend or family member.  I can not and do not believe that most legal gun owners will knowingly give one of their guns to someone about to commit a crime.  Therefore these are taken as best I can figure unbeknownst to the legal gun owner.

I have no interest in contributing to that statistic.

2012-12-26 10:20 AM
in reply to: #4548305

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 9:12 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 10:09 AM
sbreaux - 2012-12-26 8:54 AM
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 8:34 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 9:26 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:27 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:23 AM  So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Again, a bolt action .30-06 hunting rifle is far deadlier than a .223. We fought an entire war with them. Your ban does not prevent this guy from doing the same thing with a hunting rifle.

So, explain again to me why you need the Bushmaster to spray bullets around a school room? If to 06 is a better rifle?
Spraying bullets? It's one pull of the happy button per shell. It's not a flippin' one pull 10 bullets. He would/could have done the same damage with 2 9mm pistols. Just because something sounds bad/looks menacing, doesn't make it so. Someone with a .30-06 and a scope can take out a group of people from 400 yds away, with ease. I'm more scared of a sniper than I am of a guy with a .223 or even a handgun.

I've stayed out of the gun threads (and most others) because I am on the fence, but would like some explanation to the bolded.  I am not a gun expert, but have a couple of semi-auto shotguns.  Isn't the bolded not exactly true?  It is my impression that a .30-06 is a bolt action type of gun, so while one could shoot someone 400yds away, the likelihood of it taking out a group of people at that distance is highly unlikely due to the shooter having to release the bolt to discharge the shell, reloading, then scoping in at that distance.  By that time, the people being targeted would run for cover.   Truthfully, I would be more scared with someone holding a semi auto rifle with a large clip (regardless if the bullet has less power) than someone with a single shot rifle that takes a few more seconds to reload.   And before I get flamed, this really is an honest question.  Hopefully the gun experts can enlighten me on the types of .30-06.

Do you remember the Texas university shooting? A sniper with a hunting 6mm bolt action rifle, a .357 revolver, and a M1 carbine. 14 dead, 32 wounded.

Do you remember the DC sniper? People were paralized from that not knowing wher ehe was going to strike next. Very hard to catch.

You can't account for everything.... most people that die are killed with multiple shots... fewer rounds in a mag right... but it is a low power caliber(relatively), and those that get hit once live. A road rage incident here turned deadly... a guy got his .30-06 hunting rifle and shot 3 men in their car that chased him to his house. Each man was pronounced dead on the scene from one shot.

It's like we're on the same page today.....I just referenced Charles Whitman and magazines.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

2012-12-26 10:21 AM
in reply to: #4548314

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 10:17 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 10:14 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

LOL...sure, that's what I'm saying.  I've deterred a TON of crime with a gun....I'm sure it works the same for a private citizen if the need comes up.

For my part, I can't participate much longer in these "discussions".....they have dived off into ridiculousness IMO.  The second amendment will not be repealed, my life won't be affected, and we'll keep hunting/shootiung as we like.

Oh yeah, I heard this week that 30 round AR-15 mags were going for 100.00 a piece.....I've got 3 if anyone is interested at that price. Laughing

At least we agree on something.

Damn.....when I saw you responded so quick I was hoping you were gpoing to buy the magazines.....you know, to keep them out of the hands of evil-doers.  Laughing

2012-12-26 10:23 AM
in reply to: #4548291

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

jmk-brooklyn - 2012-12-26 9:03 AM I don’t see what publishing this list does in any practical sense. I’m not going to move based on who does or doesn’t own a gun in my neighborhood. I suppose that it would be nice to know whether there was a gun in the home of one of my son’s friends. If it happened to be one of the parents whom I tend to think of as being flaky or irresponsible, I might think twice before I let him play over there if I thought there might be an improperly-stored gun. Here’s a question for gun owners: If the parents of one of your kid’s friends asked you, “Do have any guns in your house? If so, do you mind telling me how they’re stored?” is that a question you’d be comfortable answering?

Perfectly within their right, and I would not be offended. If I did not meet "their" idea of what I should or should not do, then I guess that would be their problem to solve. But I don't have kids coming over. If I did, then it would be different. Even if today you can trust your kid, it doesn't mean you can trust who they bring over. It would be a problem I would have to adress.



2012-12-26 10:23 AM
in reply to: #4548325

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 10:21 AM

mr2tony - 2012-12-26 10:17 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 10:14 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:36 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 9:18 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 9:05 AM
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 8:58 AM

Hey, if I'm a burglar, I'm happy to see that list posted!!!  Laughing 

You can't fix stupid.

Exactly! So why are gun owners up in arms about this? Ohhhh pun intended. Seriously, though, why are gun owners upset about this? I thought they'd want everybody to know they have a gun so the bad guys won't come to their houses because everybody knows if a bad guy knows you have a gun, he won't mess with you,which, of course, is why police officers never get messed with. And if owning a gun is so cool and awesome and you're such a badass for having one, why would anybody care? Isn't it a deterrent to crime?

Actually, if I was a burglar I'd be sitting around waiting for them to leave.......so I could go get their guns.  If you are a permit holder chances are you have more guns too.  Guns are easy to get rid of and bring good money for heroin junkies where I am. 

I realize I look at things a bit differently than you, Tony, I just know what I deal with every day...it's never as black and white as you'd like to think.

When did I say it was black and white? I am asking a serious question. All the gun owners on here are proud to announce what kind of gun they have in a very public forum and on facebook my friends keep posting things like `That door was locked for YOUR protection, not mine.' with a picture of a big gun. Yet when someone actually knows they have a gun, it's `Don't tell anybody!' Why? Because you're afraid someone is going to steal your gun? So you're saying that owning a gun isn't a deterrent to crime, it's just a deterrent to a certain type of crime and instead makes you more vulnerable to another type of crime?

LOL...sure, that's what I'm saying.  I've deterred a TON of crime with a gun....I'm sure it works the same for a private citizen if the need comes up.

For my part, I can't participate much longer in these "discussions".....they have dived off into ridiculousness IMO.  The second amendment will not be repealed, my life won't be affected, and we'll keep hunting/shootiung as we like.

Oh yeah, I heard this week that 30 round AR-15 mags were going for 100.00 a piece.....I've got 3 if anyone is interested at that price. Laughing

At least we agree on something.

Damn.....when I saw you responded so quick I was hoping you were gpoing to buy the magazines.....you know, to keep them out of the hands of evil-doers.  Laughing



Ha if I had the money, I would buy them as a Christmas present for my brother. He seems to always need more gun stuff.
2012-12-26 11:05 AM
in reply to: #4548006

User image

Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
powerman - 2012-12-26 4:40 AM

This is not the first time this has happened... and while the paper may think it is funny doing  it... they just pushed gun owners even more to the side. Why do you think we do not have a national registry for guns? Why do you think gun owners do not want to be "on a list"? And why do you think they should... after all who else is put on a list for exercising their rights. But at least now crooks know where to go to find guns when the owner leaves.

How about every single newspaper publish every single voters information every time they vote? I mean it's just public information... and then all those people that don't want to be found by other people can be found... they can suppress their voting because they fear their Ex will be waiting for them at their voting place.

Ya, congratulation, now we can be even more divided.

I haven't read any of the posts past this one. I believe every registered voter is on a list.

FWIW, I would like to see all of the people who say having to provide a photo ID is too much of a burden for voting be consistent in their stance on the 2nd Amendment.

2012-12-26 11:08 AM
in reply to: #4548401

User image

Champion
34263
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:05 AM

powerman - 2012-12-26 4:40 AM

This is not the first time this has happened... and while the paper may think it is funny doing  it... they just pushed gun owners even more to the side. Why do you think we do not have a national registry for guns? Why do you think gun owners do not want to be "on a list"? And why do you think they should... after all who else is put on a list for exercising their rights. But at least now crooks know where to go to find guns when the owner leaves.

How about every single newspaper publish every single voters information every time they vote? I mean it's just public information... and then all those people that don't want to be found by other people can be found... they can suppress their voting because they fear their Ex will be waiting for them at their voting place.

Ya, congratulation, now we can be even more divided.

I haven't read any of the posts past this one. I believe every registered voter is on a list.

FWIW, I would like to see all of the people who say having to provide a photo ID is too much of a burden for voting be consistent in their stance on the 2nd Amendment.



LeftBrain was right. This thread has gone into the realm of ridiculousness.
2012-12-26 11:09 AM
in reply to: #4548405

User image

Pro
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McKinney, TX
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:08 AM

crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:05 AM

powerman - 2012-12-26 4:40 AM

This is not the first time this has happened... and while the paper may think it is funny doing  it... they just pushed gun owners even more to the side. Why do you think we do not have a national registry for guns? Why do you think gun owners do not want to be "on a list"? And why do you think they should... after all who else is put on a list for exercising their rights. But at least now crooks know where to go to find guns when the owner leaves.

How about every single newspaper publish every single voters information every time they vote? I mean it's just public information... and then all those people that don't want to be found by other people can be found... they can suppress their voting because they fear their Ex will be waiting for them at their voting place.

Ya, congratulation, now we can be even more divided.

I haven't read any of the posts past this one. I believe every registered voter is on a list.

FWIW, I would like to see all of the people who say having to provide a photo ID is too much of a burden for voting be consistent in their stance on the 2nd Amendment.



LeftBrain was right. This thread has gone into the realm of ridiculousness.


We didn't even get to alcohol, baseball bats, or cars.....

We must press on!

2012-12-26 11:10 AM
in reply to: #4548279

User image

Champion
10668
500050005001002525
Tacoma, Washington
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
sbreaux - 2012-12-26 7:54 AM
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 8:34 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 9:26 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:27 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:23 AM  So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Again, a bolt action .30-06 hunting rifle is far deadlier than a .223. We fought an entire war with them. Your ban does not prevent this guy from doing the same thing with a hunting rifle.

So, explain again to me why you need the Bushmaster to spray bullets around a school room? If to 06 is a better rifle?
Spraying bullets? It's one pull of the happy button per shell. It's not a flippin' one pull 10 bullets. He would/could have done the same damage with 2 9mm pistols. Just because something sounds bad/looks menacing, doesn't make it so. Someone with a .30-06 and a scope can take out a group of people from 400 yds away, with ease. I'm more scared of a sniper than I am of a guy with a .223 or even a handgun.

I've stayed out of the gun threads (and most others) because I am on the fence, but would like some explanation to the bolded.  I am not a gun expert, but have a couple of semi-auto shotguns.  Isn't the bolded not exactly true?  It is my impression that a .30-06 is a bolt action type of gun, so while one could shoot someone 400yds away, the likelihood of it taking out a group of people at that distance is highly unlikely due to the shooter having to release the bolt to discharge the shell, reloading, then scoping in at that distance.  By that time, the people being targeted would run for cover.   Truthfully, I would be more scared with someone holding a semi auto rifle with a large clip (regardless if the bullet has less power) than someone with a single shot rifle that takes a few more seconds to reload.   And before I get flamed, this really is an honest question.  Hopefully the gun experts can enlighten me on the types of .30-06.

Nope. Don't confuse caliber with action. Mine are all semi-automatic.



2012-12-26 11:10 AM
in reply to: #4548097

User image

Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:23 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:17 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:12 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 8:55 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 6:44 AM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 8:29 AM

DanielG - 2012-12-26 2:23 PM
gr33n - 2012-12-26 7:57 AM These background checks, does anyone ever get turned down as a result of one ?
For the military clones? Oh hell yeah. It's a pretty intense background check. 6 months is about normal and it's local LE, ATF, FBI, State and just about every other database there is. Or are you talking about normal firearms, NICS checks? There are quite a few turned down for those as well. Something like 500 million NICS checks since 1998 and about 500 thousand denied. What was interesting was how few are ever prosecuted for either lying on the form or for trying to obtain a firearm as a prohibited person. I believe during Clinton's years there were 17 arrested out of tens of thousands who did it.

I meant in general, thanks. Interesting. To state the obvious there's a break in the chain somewhere as people that shouldn't have guns keep coming up with them somehow.

Somehow, this guy in Rochester who served 17 years for murdering his grandmother with a hammer got a hold of a Bushmaster 223. So yeah, we need to seriously rethink either what types of guns we sell or who they're sold to and how.

In that situation, anyone that wants to be a sniper can use a regular old bolt action .30-06 and do much more damage. I seem to remember one in Texas. But obviuoly the color black and a bayonet lug are bigger things to consider.

Not the issue here. How did this guy who SERVED A MURDER SENTENCE get a gun? Something is seriously not working with what we have now!

My guess is that he did not walk into a store, fill out paper work, and answer "NO" to whether he was a convicted felon. I am waiting on a background check just buying a stripper lower... I can't just waltz into a Wal-Mart and buy a AR-15... regardless of what the media loves to claim.

So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Why?

2012-12-26 11:12 AM
in reply to: #4548408

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Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 11:09 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:08 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:05 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 4:40 AM

This is not the first time this has happened... and while the paper may think it is funny doing  it... they just pushed gun owners even more to the side. Why do you think we do not have a national registry for guns? Why do you think gun owners do not want to be "on a list"? And why do you think they should... after all who else is put on a list for exercising their rights. But at least now crooks know where to go to find guns when the owner leaves.

How about every single newspaper publish every single voters information every time they vote? I mean it's just public information... and then all those people that don't want to be found by other people can be found... they can suppress their voting because they fear their Ex will be waiting for them at their voting place.

Ya, congratulation, now we can be even more divided.

I haven't read any of the posts past this one. I believe every registered voter is on a list.

FWIW, I would like to see all of the people who say having to provide a photo ID is too much of a burden for voting be consistent in their stance on the 2nd Amendment.

LeftBrain was right. This thread has gone into the realm of ridiculousness.
We didn't even get to alcohol, baseball bats, or cars..... We must press on!

What about the people that doctor's kill with bad medical practices.....nearly 98,000 per year...it's not fair to leave them out. 

And....people killed riding horses....gotta be big. 

Sledding accidents?  I know a guy who was killed here on a sled about 8 years ago.  I'm prepared to bring that up if needed.



Edited by Left Brain 2012-12-26 11:13 AM
2012-12-26 11:15 AM
in reply to: #4548104

User image

Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
powerman - 2012-12-26 6:27 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:23 AM  So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Again, a bolt action .30-06 hunting rifle is far deadlier than a .223. We fought an entire war with them. Your ban does not prevent this guy from doing the same thing with a hunting rifle.

Just to add to what you said powerman, if he had a typical hunting rifle, something that would be appropriate for deer and of course this is just speculation, there could very possibly be twice the casualties from yesterdays horrific incident.

2012-12-26 11:18 AM
in reply to: #4548413

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Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 11:12 AM
bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 11:09 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:08 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:05 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 4:40 AM

This is not the first time this has happened... and while the paper may think it is funny doing  it... they just pushed gun owners even more to the side. Why do you think we do not have a national registry for guns? Why do you think gun owners do not want to be "on a list"? And why do you think they should... after all who else is put on a list for exercising their rights. But at least now crooks know where to go to find guns when the owner leaves.

How about every single newspaper publish every single voters information every time they vote? I mean it's just public information... and then all those people that don't want to be found by other people can be found... they can suppress their voting because they fear their Ex will be waiting for them at their voting place.

Ya, congratulation, now we can be even more divided.

I haven't read any of the posts past this one. I believe every registered voter is on a list.

FWIW, I would like to see all of the people who say having to provide a photo ID is too much of a burden for voting be consistent in their stance on the 2nd Amendment.

LeftBrain was right. This thread has gone into the realm of ridiculousness.
We didn't even get to alcohol, baseball bats, or cars..... We must press on!

What about the people that doctor's kill with bad medical practices.....nearly 98,000 per year...it's not fair to leave them out. 

And....people killed riding horses....gotta be big. 

Sledding accidents?  I know a guy who was killed here on a sled about 8 years ago.  I'm prepared to bring that up if needed.

What about obesity?  We absolutely need to have a burger ban.

2012-12-26 11:19 AM
in reply to: #4548413

User image

Champion
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Chicago
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
Left Brain - 2012-12-26 11:12 AM

bradleyd3 - 2012-12-26 11:09 AM
mr2tony - 2012-12-26 11:08 AM
crusevegas - 2012-12-26 11:05 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 4:40 AM

This is not the first time this has happened... and while the paper may think it is funny doing  it... they just pushed gun owners even more to the side. Why do you think we do not have a national registry for guns? Why do you think gun owners do not want to be "on a list"? And why do you think they should... after all who else is put on a list for exercising their rights. But at least now crooks know where to go to find guns when the owner leaves.

How about every single newspaper publish every single voters information every time they vote? I mean it's just public information... and then all those people that don't want to be found by other people can be found... they can suppress their voting because they fear their Ex will be waiting for them at their voting place.

Ya, congratulation, now we can be even more divided.

I haven't read any of the posts past this one. I believe every registered voter is on a list.

FWIW, I would like to see all of the people who say having to provide a photo ID is too much of a burden for voting be consistent in their stance on the 2nd Amendment.

LeftBrain was right. This thread has gone into the realm of ridiculousness.
We didn't even get to alcohol, baseball bats, or cars..... We must press on!

What about the people that doctor's kill with bad medical practices.....nearly 98,000 per year...it's not fair to leave them out. 

And....people killed riding horses....gotta be big. 

Sledding accidents?  I know a guy who was killed here on a sled about 8 years ago.  I'm prepared to bring that up if needed.



I shall counter with someone I knew in high school who accidentally shot his friend at a party.

Eventually Congress and the president will hear us and be all `Those guys over at BT sure know their stuff. Let's hire them.'


2012-12-26 11:24 AM
in reply to: #4547960

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Pro
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Omaha, NE
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published

To the OP I rolled my eyes when I first saw this story.  It's another one of those attempts to demonize gun owners, but likely garnering them more support in the long run.  I'd bet that the net result is they sell fewer papers, get fewer advertisers and more people buy guns.

With all the publicity about gun control the past several weeks I have been amazed at the run on guns, of all kinds.  Here in my county in Nebraska they have been touting on the news each night that record numbers of gun purchase permits being gotten and all the sporting goods stores are dam near stripped clean of all types of guns.  handguns, shotguns, rifles, etc...

We did the Christmas family tour the past few days and at every single house we went to people were talking about guns, guns, and more guns.  Several talking about how they'd never owned a gun, but now want to get one, or just bought one.

So, ironically all of this "gun control" talk is putting a lot more guns of all types in homes which will make any new legislation pushes even more difficult to pass.  IMHO

2012-12-26 11:27 AM
in reply to: #4547960

User image

Austin, Texas or Jupiter, Florida
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
I find it a little strange that people don't ask the questions that JMKBrooklyn asked earlier about what guns people have and how they're secured when their kids are visiting.

For the record, mine are in a keypad safe that my wife and I know the combo to.
2012-12-26 11:28 AM
in reply to: #4548439

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Pro
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McKinney, TX
Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
GomesBolt - 2012-12-26 11:27 AM

I find it a little strange that people don't ask the questions that JMKBrooklyn asked earlier about what guns people have and how they're secured when their kids are visiting.

For the record, mine are in a keypad safe that my wife and I know the combo to.


I've been asked and it didn't offend me and I explained where and how they were kept. i even offered to have the dad come and verify/look if he wanted.

It's a legit question....

2012-12-26 11:29 AM
in reply to: #4548224

User image

Subject: RE: Gun permit holders published
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:26 AM
powerman - 2012-12-26 9:27 AM
pitt83 - 2012-12-26 7:23 AM  So, the solution therefore is to eliminate / ban weapons such as this from production, sale and ownership.

Again, a bolt action .30-06 hunting rifle is far deadlier than a .223. We fought an entire war with them. Your ban does not prevent this guy from doing the same thing with a hunting rifle.

So, explain again to me why you need the Bushmaster to spray bullets around a school room? If to 06 is a better rifle?

You really should educate yourself more on this subject since you make so many demands and want to restrict the rights people have. You are sounding with all due respect a little off kilter.

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