What is single payer healthcare? (Page 4)

...It's one thing if everyone's insurance went down because of this cost reduction, but unfortunately everyone's insurance appears to be going up.  So, how is this better?

If you believe that "everyone's insurance [is]...going up" then you're living withing the right wing bubble.

that said- yes, many people's policies will go up.  here's why.  If you were a well paid individual and were purchasing a good independent plan, you didn't realize it, but you were being 'subsidized'.  i.e the insurance company was allowed to not provide policies to those that would cost them too much, so you were grouped with just the healthy people, at the expense of the 'unhealthy' ones.  Now. you've gotta' pay for a policy that's more inclusive. some of that additional cost is covered by the additional people required now to purchase insurance, and there are other sources of income as well.  The gov't is helping out those who cannot afford it (and those costs are paid for in the bill, not by additional income taxes).

With healthcare, we're balancing Affordability, Coverage and Accessibility.  the healthy wealthy person with the good plan had great coverage at an affordable rate.  they'll be sacrificing some of either their coverage or cost in order to allow the other 30 million people to get coverage.  

I realize that conservatives feel this is wrong.  but- WWJD?

If you believe that "everyone's insurance [is]...going up" then you're living withing the right wing bubble.

that said- yes, many people's policies will go up.  here's why.  If you were a well paid individual and were purchasing a good independent plan, you didn't realize it, but you were being 'subsidized'.  i.e the insurance company was allowed to not provide policies to those that would cost them too much, so you were grouped with just the healthy people, at the expense of the 'unhealthy' ones.  Now. you've gotta' pay for a policy that's more inclusive. some of that additional cost is covered by the additional people required now to purchase insurance, and there are other sources of income as well.  The gov't is helping out those who cannot afford it (and those costs are paid for in the bill, not by additional income taxes).

With healthcare, we're balancing Affordability, Coverage and Accessibility.  the healthy wealthy person with the good plan had great coverage at an affordable rate.  they'll be sacrificing some of either their coverage or cost in order to allow the other 30 million people to get coverage.  

I realize that conservatives feel this is wrong.  but- WWJD?

 I realize that conservatives feel this is wrong.  but- WWJD?

Morey, I'm gonna call "Foul" on this one.  You got a good thread pulled for bringing up someone's (Tony's) religion.  And when i read your WWJD quote, I couldn't help but notice it was in response to Tony.  If that's just my imagination-I aplogize.   But if that's an attempt to elicit a response?... maybe wanna reconsider. 

Just my .02

I did not denigrate, insult or ridicule tony or anyone because of their beliefs (in this thread).  I was, in fact, holding up some of the best values of what Jesus professed as something to think about when considering that yes, some of us might pay a little more so that a lot of us can be cared for.  It's a kind morality.  I have no idea what you might have taken offense with, but I apologize if I offended you or Tony.  

I believe your call of 'foul' was unwarranted.

Plus- Tony came back with a pretty good/fair response.

I did not denigrate, insult or ridicule tony or anyone because of their beliefs (in this thread).  I was, in fact, holding up some of the best values of what Jesus professed as something to think about when considering that yes, some of us might pay a little more so that a lot of us can be cared for.  It's a kind morality.  I have no idea what you might have taken offense with, but I apologize if I offended you or Tony.  

I believe your call of 'foul' was unwarranted.

Plus- Tony came back with a pretty good/fair response.

I didn't take any offense at all.  

Maybe we need to have a separate WWJD thread because there are a lot of valid discussions/debates about applying Jesus's teachings to current events.

Maybe we need to count to ten and all stick a pencil in our eye instead.

It's probably not necessary to get deep into the economic laws of healthcare vs commodities- because ultimately it will diverge when we differ on the belief that there is an inherent right to basic health care for everyone, or not.  If a person can't afford to get essential medical care- should someone else pay?

And- I agree with the statement bolded (emboldend?) above.  A person can find an anecdote that supports any hypothesis.  For instance, for an estimated 3 % of the population- their insurance rates are legitimately going to go up under the ACA.  Even 3% is a lot of anecdotes to work with!

But I think that we all agree in this:  In the US we spend way too much money on healthcare, and we get poor outcomes.  

here's a good short summary with some charts that PBS put together:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2012/10/health-costs-how-the-us-compares-with-other-countries.html

The question is- what to do about it.  As is suggested above- just adding the pre-existing conditions requirement would put our insurance companies out of business...or, raise everyone else's rates... without getting more people into the system.  That's the beauty of the Heritage Foundation's plan that they put forward in 1989, and has been the bastion of the GOP position on healthcare right up through the negotiations in 2009 until the moment Obama acquiesced to the GOP.

The ACA is a free market plan where capitalistic insurance companies compete on the open market for business, and the government offers help to those who can least afford it to purchase this insurance.  The costs of this assistance are "paid for" via a variety of means in the bill, that were all agreed to and fought for by the insurance companies.

anyway- I really have other things I should be doing.  I accept that we just don't agree.  Romneycare didn't work perfectly in the first few years.  Took a while for them to adjust the laws and the process. Works now tho'.

Well first of all it isn't free to the consumer, the government would be paying for something, and by law it must go to the best bid at the lowest price point.

Also, should healthcare really be something that we let demand dictate the price. You really need that surgery don't you, well in that case its going to really cost ya. Healthcare should be removed from that capitalist system. Just as I believe education should be.

I guess I can also say that you're living in a left wing bubble pretending that everyone's insurance isn't going up.  The administration is trying to portray the only people getting insurance canceled are the 5% that have individual policies.  This is an outright and blatant lie because we have two real examples in this thread of individual business owners (myself being one of them) that have had our existing group plans canceled and the replacement plans have significant premium increases and/or higher deductible/copays.

I have had conversations with 50+ business owners who are both friends and customers of mine and I have yet to meet a single one who is experiencing a reduction in their corporate insurance premium.  I know a dozen or so people who have personal insurance policies that have all been canceled and they're genuinely worried about what they're going to do next year. (these would be the 5%)

Now there is no question there are good stories of people who didn't have insurance due to pre-existing conditions and such that are now able to get insurance.  There are also stories about people who had no insurance before who, with the subsidies are able to now afford insurance.

So, other than individuals who were buying insurance before and now get full subsidies to help offset their overall out of pocket expense, I'm not really sure there are any people who will have their insurance rates go down.  I'm sure there's probably some plan somewhere with $12k deductibles that has a $200 premium that will result in "monthly rates" going down, but I think you'd have a tough time finding anyone's overall annual expense going down.

You're right about the costs going up due to the pool increasing, but that has nothing to do with plans for "well paid" people, it's more like anyone who had insurance previously (well paid, or not) will have their policies go up due to the increases being added to the pool.  How much money they make is irrelevant.

Also, I am pretty sure Jesus wouldn't create a government plan to take money from people (believers and non) by force and have the government redistribute it to people who are in "need".  In pretty much every example I can think of in the bible Jesus was about teaching individuals to go out and take care of the poor.
I have seen several times on facebook about Jesus healing for free, so therefore he supports universal healthcare.  I would say that's more like him encouraging doctors and those with the ability to heal to go out and heal for free as a gift to the poor.  That's quite different then the government taking money and paying the doctor to go out and heal.  
"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. (NIV, Matthew 6:1-2)

So, WWJD?  He would ask you to surrender your life to him and give to the poor out of obedience vs. compulsion.  IMHO  :-P