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2014-05-27 1:32 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Subject: RE: It's Friday! What's your plan?

Originally posted by JREDFLY
Originally posted by lutzman
Hey James.....good luck! Give us a race report when you're done! I like your attitude...."take it easy and enjoy the race." Steve
Hi Steve, My first half marathon went surprisingly well. I was just hoping to finish under 2:30 and I actually finished at 2:15. It was a 7:00 Sunday morning start on a 70 degree day which was very muggy but we had cloud cover which helped. With my training I was trying to stay under a 155 heart rate to stay under that lactic acid burn zone but that would cause me to run only a 12 to 13 min/mile, so I tempted fate and decided not to look at my heart rate and just go by feel. I pulled or strained a hamstring a week ago last Saturday working on my son's new/old jeep so I didn't run all week except for a light 3 mile run Friday night to see how I felt and it was good enough to go. I don't know if it was the lay off but I just felt great throughout the entire race. There were 7000 runners and a few around me were that the start was too slow but I was fine at 12 min/mile pace for the first 2 to 3 miles. I then brought it down to a 11 mm and was still breathing easy so I took it down to 10:30 mm about half way through the race and still felt good. Stayed there to about the 10 mile mark and I heard that is where the race really begins but I felt really strong so I started cruising at a 10 mm pace which is really fast for this little fat Irish guy, especially at mile 10. The last mile I was actually running sub 9s pulling in anything in sight that had gray hair (Steve, I know you laughing at this point). Hit the stop button on my Garmin after I crossed the finish line and saw 2:15 and was very happy! Steve I will be very interested in what you have to say, my avg bpm was 163 and I felt great. I still can't figure it out, after a slow 12 mm, 13 mile practice run I felt worse than running 10:20s mm on race day. Very weird. BTW - If anyone wants to come to Boston for a race this half marathon is very nice because it starts down at the waterfront, goes through town, along the Charles River up to the Harvard Bridge and back - it is also very flat too.

What a fantastic race you had! Good times and a GREAT pace. Love that you "took down" all those gray people



2014-05-27 2:29 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything
Great post Steve, I know I have days like that and lately quite a few. I hate running in the heat and I remind myself that constantly while I am doing it, will definitely be thinking the opposite next time, on the other hand when it comes to cold weather I am exactly the opposite I use that as fuel to work out and tell myself no one else is doing this and that motivates me. I guess the bottom line is we need to find that motivation in all of our workouts or at least as much as possible. For me having a set goal like an upcoming race is what really drives me and helps keep me on track.

On the other hand going out in those conditions is still better than most people our age, or any age, would never even consider doing what we doing to keep our selves moving.
Great job at least doing it!
2014-05-27 2:40 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Subject: RE: It's Friday! What's your plan?
Originally posted by JREDFLY

Originally posted by lutzman



Hey James.....good luck! Give us a race report when you're done! I like your attitude...."take it easy and enjoy the race."

Steve


Hi Steve,

My first half marathon went surprisingly well. I was just hoping to finish under 2:30 and I actually finished at 2:15. It was a 7:00 Sunday morning start on a 70 degree day which was very muggy but we had cloud cover which helped. With my training I was trying to stay under a 155 heart rate to stay under that lactic acid burn zone but that would cause me to run only a 12 to 13 min/mile, so I tempted fate and decided not to look at my heart rate and just go by feel. I pulled or strained a hamstring a week ago last Saturday working on my son's new/old jeep so I didn't run all week except for a light 3 mile run Friday night to see how I felt and it was good enough to go. I don't know if it was the lay off but I just felt great throughout the entire race. There were 7000 runners and a few around me were that the start was too slow but I was fine at 12 min/mile pace for the first 2 to 3 miles. I then brought it down to a 11 mm and was still breathing easy so I took it down to 10:30 mm about half way through the race and still felt good. Stayed there to about the 10 mile mark and I heard that is where the race really begins but I felt really strong so I started cruising at a 10 mm pace which is really fast for this little fat Irish guy, especially at mile 10. The last mile I was actually running sub 9s pulling in anything in sight that had gray hair (Steve, I know you laughing at this point). Hit the stop button on my Garmin after I crossed the finish line and saw 2:15 and was very happy!

Steve I will be very interested in what you have to say, my avg bpm was 163 and I felt great. I still can't figure it out, after a slow 12 mm, 13 mile practice run I felt worse than running 10:20s mm on race day. Very weird.

BTW - If anyone wants to come to Boston for a race this half marathon is very nice because it starts down at the waterfront, goes through town, along the Charles River up to the Harvard Bridge and back - it is also very flat too.


Nice race James, Congrats on a great finish!
I might have to consider this one next year, whats the name of it?

Dan
2014-05-27 4:11 PM
in reply to: Terps421

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN!
Originally posted by Terps421

Oh my, perfect forum for me! I am 50 and things are not the same...but I want to continue to improve and live as healthy as I can.
My name is Linda!


Glad to have you on the team Linda. Welcome to our forum group.

Steve
2014-05-27 4:17 PM
in reply to: charlotte hobbs

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN!
Originally posted by charlotte hobbs

The training distances seem quite short. For example, run today is only 1.7 miles. Given my extreme inconsistency, would you recommend just completing the short distances that are within the BT custom plan or would you recommend starting at longer distances? thanks for any advice.



Hey Charlotte:

My two cents is if your schedule doesn't allow you to follow the BT plans, I would suggest creating your own. That way you can tailor the distances, activities and intensity to what works for you vs. a pre-determined schedule. My concern with following their plan would be if your training is not consistent you're likely to get pushed too hard to hit training goals that your fitness can't sustain.

If you're focused on short distance races, I would focus on short distance training. Quality trumps quantity.

Just my two cents.

Steve
2014-05-27 4:33 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Subject: RE: It's Friday! What's your plan?
Originally posted by JREDFLY


My first half marathon went surprisingly well. I was just hoping to finish under 2:30 and I actually finished at 2:15.

Steve I will be very interested in what you have to say, my avg bpm was 163 and I felt great. I still can't figure it out, after a slow 12 mm, 13 mile practice run I felt worse than running 10:20s mm on race day. Very weird.



Hey James:

Congrats on beating your goal by a big margin! Nothing wrong with 2:15.

It's interesting that you started out slow and built into the race, saving your strongest effort for the last few miles. It's so hard to have that discipline, but I think I've had my strongest races when I've followed that approach.

I don't know what to say on your HR at 163. If I hit that number I'm on a shot clock to lactic acid blowup. But, we all have have different max HR levels, so it's certainly possible that your max is considerably higher than you've been estimating. It will be worth watching now in your training to try to measure your perceived rate of exertion against HR levels in future races.

I'm guessing there are two possible reasons you felt better running the faster paces:

1) You had fresh, well rested legs from a good taper. When you finally picked up the pace your muscles were warm and ready to perform. I've seen it in my own training plenty of times where the slower miles early feel much harder than the aggressive paces later....just due to warm up.
2) Your running economy is probably better at a slightly faster pace. Faster running begins to eliminate heel strikes...heel strikes slow you down since every foot strike is like putting on the brakes. As you pick up the pace and get more forward lean you get more of a mid-foot strike which is much better for running economy. If there are any photos of you early and late in the race it would be worth looking at those for body position.

Nice job. Congrats on a great race!

Steve


2014-05-27 4:56 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN!
Hey Charlotte,
When I first joined BT in March, I tried working with the custom plan, and the times/distances were much less than I had already been doing. My BT coach (Leigh) suggested one of the stock plans instead, which seemed a bit beyond what I was doing. However, I went with it, cutting out or shortening some of the workouts at first. I have increased volumes gradually and am now almost up to what the plan calls for, and doing more than what I would have thought possible. The stock plans are every bit as customizable as the custom plans, so look around at them.
2014-05-27 6:05 PM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Subject: RE: How to start running again after calf injury?
A quick update on my calf. I saw the doctor this morning. He believes it is the plantaris tendon that has been causing my pain (as I suspected) and that it is still healing. He doesn't believe I've done any permanent damage with my injure/re-injure pattern, and that it is nearly healed. He had a couple recommendations: strength (weight) training to build the muscle/tendon without the jarring of running, and increase distance REALLY slowly when I start running again. The specific strength training he recommended was to stand with the balls of my feet on the edge of a step and go slowly up and down (lifting with the calf muscles). He wasn't a fan of physical therapy (not sure why).

Do you guys do any sort of strength/weight training?

Here is my plan.
1. Do the strength training he recommended.
2. If no pain, this coming weekend I'll do maybe 10 minutes of run/walk (30sec/1min) on grass. The injury seems to be aggravated by jarring on the hard trail, so I'm hoping grass will have less jarring.
3. If no pain, on subsequent walk/runs I'll progress very slowly to more run/walk cycles and running for longer periods of time.

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Scott I.
2014-05-27 7:32 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything
Originally posted by lutzman

Good Tuesday morning everyone!

Ok, my rant of the week is on training attitude....or at least the mental aspects of approaching training with the right mindset. So here's what got me going this morning:

I had an open water swim yesterday as my only workout of the day. I normally take Mondays as a rest day so maybe I was a little cranky to start. However, I've got business travel this week that will essentially knock out any training on Wed/Thurs. so I knew I needed to put something in on Monday, so I scheduled the swim.

Yes, I was tired from the weekend and a wine party we hosted at our house on Sunday evening. So I wasn't all that enthused about dunking myself in the cold lake. When I got to the lake it was windy, cool, with whitecaps. I stood and looked at that water for the better part of an hour essentially having an inner debated over whether or not I really needed to go swimming. Training habit finally won out and I slowly changed into my wetsuit and hauled my body--with complaining brain--down to the waters edge.

It was not a fun swim. With big waves and wind it felt Iike I was running uphill. I drank a little water trying to breathe and struggled against the wind current. It felt like I was completely out of breath and I broke stroke and went into breast stroke recovery mode many times. I turned back too quickly after a pretty lackluster effort. I then put a check mark in the training log for a "swim" and called it a day.

In thinking about this now I'm really pretty disappointed with my effort. I totally talked myself into a crappy workout. The pre-swim negative thinking put me in perfect position to have all my worst fears confirmed as soon as I hit the water. Big surprise, expect a crappy workout, get a crappy workout.

Which goes back to the lesson of the day. Training time is limited. And for us gray guys/girls it's sometimes hard to muster the physical/mental energy to strap on the gear and hit the pool, road or trail. But once that decision to train is made, it absolutely must be embraced as a singular opportunity for improvement. Negative self-talk only squelches self improvement by poisoning the effort even before it gets started.

If only. If only I had looked at that water as a wonderful opportunity for a challenging workout....one presented to me offering a unique opportunity for self-improvement BECAUSE of the tough conditions. I could have had a spectacular workout that better prepared me for challenging race conditions making me even stronger in perfect conditions.

Negative self-talk is destructive and it's an area that I really need to focus on improving in 2014. "You can't do this, you can't maintain this pace, this is really hard," need to be replaced with "this is really cool, you're doing fine, this is what you trained for, you got this," etc. etc.

That's my long rant. I post it up because I'm probably not the only one that when the conditions get tough starts to focus on how difficult the challenge is rather than how spectacular it is to be pushing 60 and still able to race with the young stallions....even if though many of them finish ahead of me.

The good news is I turned it around this morning. I was on my indoor trainer at 2:30 a.m. I needed to get in 90 minutes, cool down, shower and head for the airport by 5:00. I got it in, no complaining, and (surprise!) had a pretty decent workout despite the early hour of the day.

Hope your training is going well.

Steve



Steve,

Glad you passed along. This is an issue that I often struggle with when traveling, especially when faced with yet another run on a hotel treadmill. My kick in the pants often comes from repeating positive thoughts (and even sappy training slogans) to myself until I actually change my mindset.

And 230am on the trainer before a flight today? Wow, that's pretty hard core.

Dave






2014-05-27 7:42 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Subject: RE: It's Friday! What's your plan?
Originally posted by JREDFLY

My first half marathon went surprisingly well. I was just hoping to finish under 2:30 and I actually finished at 2:15. It was a 7:00 Sunday morning start on a 70 degree day which was very muggy but we had cloud cover which helped.

BTW - If anyone wants to come to Boston for a race this half marathon is very nice because it starts down at the waterfront, goes through town, along the Charles River up to the Harvard Bridge and back - it is also very flat too.


James, nice work on the half. It was muggy here too on Sunday, so that's a great race. Congrats.

Since I'm fairly close to Boston, that race sounds like it might be a fun road trip. Though I must admit to being a bit scared that I'll be just another "gray " that you'll be hunting down starting at mile 10!

Dave
2014-05-27 9:57 PM
in reply to: JREDFLY

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Subject: RE: It's Friday! What's your plan?
Originally posted by JREDFLY

My first half marathon went surprisingly well. I was just hoping to finish under 2:30 and I actually finished at 2:15.



Way to hit it out of the park, James! Yaz would be proud! Especially the way you negative split... very cool!

Did I detect a Terp in our presence? Welcome Linda! Already missing you guys in the ACC. Doesn't seem right.

Stu


2014-05-27 10:15 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything
Originally posted by lutzman

Which goes back to the lesson of the day. Training time is limited. And for us gray guys/girls it's sometimes hard to muster the physical/mental energy to strap on the gear and hit the pool, road or trail. But once that decision to train is made, it absolutely must be embraced as a singular opportunity for improvement. Negative self-talk only squelches self improvement by poisoning the effort even before it gets started.



Saw that Diana Nyad was the graduation speaker at Middlebury College this past weekend. When I get frustrated / down I just take a moment and think about what she accomplished. It still totally blows my small mind. So beyond my ability to comprehend. But it is inspiring!

I had the opposite of your experience this afternoon, Steve. I went to the gym figuring I'd try to get in a quick weights workout for an afternoon break, but I stopped by the pool just on the off chance there would be some space in there. And it was completely empty. There's never even a single lane empty and this time the whole pool was a sheet of glass. I took it as a sign and jumped in and thoroughly enjoyed a quick mile swim. I'm having my worst training season in years, but I am appreciating the opportunities I have to workout more. Enjoyed exploring a bit of Indianapolis while I was out there. I've decided that seeing a city by jogging is a pretty good way to get a vibe for the city.

Let's see if I can make it 3 in a row tomorrow for the first time in 3 weeks :-)

Stu
2014-05-28 5:42 AM
in reply to: juneapple

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything
Hi, I qualify, I have gray hair, hey at least it turned gray and not loose. If there is room I'd like to join. I'll be out of town for the next few days. Also right now I'm marathon based training and letting my weakness (swimming) drown. If there is room I'll post a biio in a few day.
karl
2014-05-28 7:32 AM
in reply to: juneapple

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything
Hi everyone, I created a table with all of our names and a link to the forum, I actually just modified one that someone else created
If anyone is interested let me know and I can give you the code. It is nice to check on each other and allows a quick link. If you see anything wrong or don't want to be included let me know.

As you can see it was another hot one here. I decided to start working on my speed since I seem to have lost a lot of it since moving to greater distances. I had to go into the gym and use the dreadmill as I was not about to try it on the hot sun. Nothing to extreme warmed up on the elliptical for 30 mins and then went to the treadmill and did 1/2 mile at 6mph then did 6 x 1/4 mile at 8mph with a 1/4 mile walk in between, I am going to start doing some variation of this for the foreseeable future to hopefully gain back some speed. I will have to build up to Steve's workout as I don't think I have it in my right now!

Have a great day everyone

Keep moving forward!



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2014-05-28 7:58 AM
in reply to: KWDreamun

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything

Originally posted by KWDreamun Hi, I qualify, I have gray hair, hey at least it turned gray and not loose. If there is room I'd like to join. I'll be out of town for the next few days. Also right now I'm marathon based training and letting my weakness (swimming) drown. If there is room I'll post a biio in a few day. karl

Welcome!

2014-05-28 3:21 PM
in reply to: ceilidh

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything

Hi beautiful mature people!  Just wanted to touch base since my post on page one.  I never posted my bio and here's where I'm at -  I'd been a member of a mentor group that had made the decision not to go live this session and thus I asked to be in your perfectly fitting Gray group.   It turns out my old group is starting back up and I'm connected to them deeply.  I'd LOVE to stay in your group also (I got permission from the moderator Ron and Steve said I could stick around).   However, your group is filling up and I don't want to take a spot of someone new so I'm going to stay in the background until I know if you reach capacity.  I just wanted to explain where I'm at so you don't think I dropped off the map.   I'm reading your daily posts  and you're all an impressive lot.   

Judi - thank you for being an amazing encourager through your sweet inspires.

Steve - loved your post on attitude.  I needed the reminder of that!

James - a hearty congrats on your 13.1 time - taking more than a minute per mile off your goal!  Wow!

Karl (a BT friend of mine) is a great guy and you'll enjoy him in your group. Hi Karl

Until I know further, I'll just be a Gray Groupie wanna-be and a lurker. 

 



2014-05-28 4:33 PM
in reply to: KWDreamun

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything
Originally posted by KWDreamun

Hi, I qualify, I have gray hair, hey at least it turned gray and not loose. If there is room I'd like to join. I'll be out of town for the next few days. Also right now I'm marathon based training and letting my weakness (swimming) drown. If there is room I'll post a biio in a few day.
karl



Hi Karl:

Glad to have you in our group. Welcome to the forum.

Steve
2014-05-28 4:34 PM
in reply to: Mountaindan

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Subject: RE: Attitude is everything
Originally posted by Mountaindan


As you can see it was another hot one here. I decided to start working on my speed since I seem to have lost a lot of it since moving to greater distances. I had to go into the gym and use the dreadmill as I was not about to try it on the hot sun. N
Keep moving forward!


113 outside? Yikes. That's not only too hot to workout, it's too hot to even lie down!
2014-05-28 4:48 PM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Subject: RE: How to start running again after calf injury?
Originally posted by EchoLkScott


Do you guys do any sort of strength/weight training?


Any thoughts or suggestions?

Scott I.


Hey Scott:

I've backed off now, but for about nine months a year I participate in strength training at my local gym. I do a class that is an hour long and is really focused on building endurance strength as opposed to mass. So, the entire focus is lower weights but much higher reps. We'll often do 100+ reps in a set, so the weight has to be low.

For me, this is perfect. Mass is bad for running, so I'm really just trying to maintain strength that may be declining due to age. Two one hour classes a week seems to fit me really well. And the benefits of regimen seem to also help with balance and muscle groups that are missed as part of triathlon training.

I just drop it during race season as I feel it impacts the quality of my workouts on the day after the strength activity....and I'm not willing to sacrifice the quality of the tri training while I'm working up to specific races. But overall, I highly recommend it.

Steve
2014-05-28 4:48 PM
in reply to: EchoLkScott

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Subject: RE: How to start running again after calf injury?
Originally posted by EchoLkScott


Do you guys do any sort of strength/weight training?


Any thoughts or suggestions?

Scott I.


Hey Scott:

I've backed off now, but for about nine months a year I participate in strength training at my local gym. I do a class that is an hour long and is really focused on building endurance strength as opposed to mass. So, the entire focus is lower weights but much higher reps. We'll often do 100+ reps in a set, so the weight has to be low.

For me, this is perfect. Mass is bad for running, so I'm really just trying to maintain strength that may be declining due to age. Two one hour classes a week seems to fit me really well. And the benefits of regimen seem to also help with balance and muscle groups that are missed as part of triathlon training.

I just drop it during race season as I feel it impacts the quality of my workouts on the day after the strength activity....and I'm not willing to sacrifice the quality of the tri training while I'm working up to specific races. But overall, I highly recommend it.

Steve
2014-05-28 5:34 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Monterey, California
Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN!
Hoping there's still room for another grey/master's beginner! Using your template, thanks btw:

NAME: Beach_Gurlz / Beach

STORY: Swam in high school and again after college in Masters. Did open water in SoCal in my 20's, thought the 3 miler was boring but not exhausting (not so now). Discovered couch to 5k last year, along with free weights - consider myself more of a lifter than a runner but I can pick them up and put them down in an orderly fashion. Joined an open water group a month or so ago and get 1 or 2 ocean swims a week, each about a mile. I'm slow, would love to be faster but more interested in being successful than a little faster.

I am a neophyte on the bike and run, slow in all three.

CURRENT TRAINING: Using the BT 16 week 3x balanced plan, started yesterday, dutifully posted my training record.

Recent Races-- Silicon Valley Turkey Trot (11/13), PG Love Run (2/14) - finished without embarrassing myself.

THIS YEAR'S PLANNED RACES: Mermaid Tri, Capitola October, sprint (600 m swim, 11.5 bike, 2.5 run)

WEIGHTLOSS: yes


2014-05-28 8:44 PM
in reply to: juneapple

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN!

Originally posted by juneapple Look forward to working with the repeat gray offenders and the new folks! Stu

Hey Stu!  Glad you are part of the group again.

Sorry everyone that I have been AWOL!  One of my engineers retired and another decided to move back east with her husband when he was transferred - go figure!  That has left me a bit shorthanded which means I actually have to work.  Geez how I hate when work gets in the way of training and anything triathlon related.  Oh well, my company "sponsors" me so I guess I can't complain.  I just think of it as "sponsor obligations."

2014-05-28 8:47 PM
in reply to: soccermom15

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN!

Originally posted by soccermom15

Steve, thanks for having me back!

NAME: soccermom15 - Janet

Hi Janet!  Glad you are back.

2014-05-28 8:57 PM
in reply to: lutzman

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Farmington, Connecticut
Subject: Test drove the wetsuit tonght
Hi all,

With my first Sprint tri coming up on Sunday, I did a quick assessment of my readiness for this new adventure. While I felt fairly comfortable about doing the bike and run segments, I'm a new swimmer, so I'm not yet confident in my abilities in the swim. This has been weighing on me a bit as time ticked by, so I decided to skip my morning pool workout today and this evening I packed up my gear and drive an hour to meet a friend at the race site to take advantage of the practice swim sessions in the lake. I'm glad I did.

This was my first wetsuit swim (holy cow, it REALLY floats!!) and completed the swim course with only minor technical difficulties. Of course I had some issues, such as water filled goggles, siting and directional challenges as well as several gulps of fresh Connecticut pond water during the swim, but I survived. Now I"m MUCH less worried about completing the swim without using up all the gas in my tank. (Thanks, Scott!)

Once out of the water, we did a quick change and hit the bike course at an easy pace. I thoroughly enjoyed the bike part of the workout. We also rode the bikes through most of the run course, so now there will be fewer unknowns on race day.


Dave

2014-05-28 9:03 PM
in reply to: 0

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Subject: RE: Gray Guys/Girls Masters Focus Triathlete Forum--OPEN!

Originally posted by DJP_19 Just noticed that I didn't introduce myself to the new group, so here goes: Screen/Name: DJP_19 / Dave Proulx Bio: 56 years old.

Hey Dave!  Glad you are back.  How is the swimming going?

Originally posted by DJP_19 BTW: I got a chance to do a couple OWS sessions this past week, since we spent a few days in the Florida Keys. The water was warm, but the 2 to 3 foot seas made it feel like I was swimming in a washing machine. It was quite a learning experience.

I have always said, "When you get in open water all the rules change!"  You were introduced to one of the biggest changes, the water is almost NEVER calm.  Two things help in rough water - the ability to bi-lateral breath, or breath to either side.  That way you can breath to the side opposite where the waves are coming from as opposed to drinking from the side the waves are coming from.  Secondly, shortening your stroke up a little bit.  Yes, at first glance it seems that shortening your stroke will make your stroke less efficient, which is true in calm water, however in rough water, a shorter stroke is actually a bit more efficient because a) you don't glide as much - in rough water a glide absolutely kills your forward momentum, and b) the higher turnover rate helps you cut through the trough between waves.

I am fortunate to live not too far from the ocean so on the rare occasion when we actually have bad weather, I generally will go down to the beach and swim a couple thousand yards in stormy seas to improve my ROUGH water skills.  You never know what the water is going to be like on race day.



Edited by k9car363 2014-05-28 9:22 PM
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