Gun Advocates, What Say You?? (Page 4)

I want a shotgun, a steak, and a 4-dr diesel truck.  Sorry.....my redneck roots are deep....but I'm trying....I'm REALLY trying.

You might be surprised, but depending on the state this is already the case.

In Nebraska where I live there's a state law that you cannot sell a handgun to anybody private or otherwise without them possessing and showing you a handgun purchase permit or a concealed carry permit.  I sold a couple handguns over a gun exchange Facebook page and the individuals had to show me their permit to purchase and I took a picture of it with their ID card to show that I verified they had one.  I then sold them the gun.

In order to obtain a handgun purchase permit an individual has to go to their county sheriff and pass a criminal background check as well as certify they meet all the other legal requirements.  So I didn't do "background checks" on them, but I did have comfort that they've passed one at some point in the recent past.

In other words, it's against the law in Nebraska for anyone to sell a handgun to anyone else private or otherwise without them having a background check.  There are a few exceptions to the law where a purchase permit isn't required:
The transferee is a licensed firearms dealer under federal law;
The handgun is an antique;
The transferee is authorized to do so on behalf of a law enforcement agency;
The transfer is temporary and the transferee remains: (i) in the line of sight of the transferor; or (ii) within the premises of an established shooting facility; or
The transfer is between a person and his or her spouse, sibling, parent, child, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, or grandparent;
The transferee is a peace officer; or
The transferee is a holder of a valid Concealed Handgun Permit holder

This law does only cover handguns, but in my experience I've never seen an individual sell a gun of any kind without checking for the permit.  Gun shows were almost adamant that people had to have them and the last one I went to had signs posted that flat out stated you could buy nothing without the purchase permit.

I am not denying that there are loopholes out there that people are using, but I think this is one of those "scary things" the anti gun folks use to scare everyone into allowing tougher laws.  The people who don't care about selling guns to criminals aren't typically the type of folks that are going to obey a law like this anyway IMHO.

Edit***  btw, I would be in support of a similar type of system nationally for all gun purchases.  I don't think it's that much of a burden and just makes it easier for the buyer and seller.

I'm good with a mandatory background check for ANY sale......because why not?  However, it will not make a single difference in the amount of gun crime.  I say this because some of the cities with the strictest gun control laws have the highest shooting rates. (Chicago, Washington DC)......yes, I know they have recently loosened laws there too, but before they did it made absoluitely no difference.

In the same light.....can anybody who is FOR gun control tell me why they are not for locking up people, who use a gun in a crime, for a very long time?  I am 100% certain that getting violent people off the street reduces crime exponetially....I have worked it and lived it.  There is a small percentage of people who commit the OVERWHELMING majority of violent crime.  Get rid of them.

in my home state of Maryland, stricter gun laws have positively correlated with decreased gun deaths.

Except in Baltimore, of course.

with the exception of this year, with all the police stuff, they've been trending downwards

Just out of curiosity where are you getting this data?  Not saying your'e wrong, but I tried googling and only found stuff about Maryland having a very high gun death rate (6th in the nation) overall in 2013.

The other part is correlation doesn't typically equal causation.  I could say we had more meteor showers the last two years and gun deaths went down so therefore meteor showers correlate to a reduction in gun deaths.  

Maryland's decreased gun deaths negatively correlate with the increased consumption of Bluebell ice cream in Texas.  

We can......but it takes a multifaceted approach and some really dedicated crime fighters.....from a number of agencies.  And, most importantly, public support in the community.

A number of years ago I was assigned to a newly annexed area of our city that consisted almost solely of public and subsidized housing.  Very poor people.  The area was an open air drug market with all of the trappings of violence that go along with it.  Shootings, stabbings, robberies, and rapes at a rate MUCH greater than the surrounding areas.

Eight of us were assigned to the area....and we went to work.  It was dangerous as hell, but if you were a young Police Officer who really liked the job is was like playing in the world series.  In time, we identified a number of people who were causing almost all of the crime.  In absolute fairness, the area was also home to some great folks.....poor and with no resources to get out, but just good people.  Once we gained their trust they became allies.  We used the housing authority to evict people we identified as housing the bad folks, we used the building commissioners office to condemn properties where crime was repetitive....for all kinds of violations.  And we arrested that criminal element for every single crime we could make them for. It was so crazy that we had people coming into the area to buy drugs complaining that we were only stopping them because they were white. (the area was 90% black) 

We got it to the point where a development company came in and bought much of it up....with the promise to rehab the rest.  Anyone who left was given far and away more then their property was worth.  Those that stayed, and many did, were rewarded with the same amount to rehab their property.....along with the contractors to provide the work.

I made lifelong friends there.  We also had an Officer shot and killed.  Thankfully, we never had to shoot anyone.  It took about 6 years to make it a place where people started calling the Police for barking dogs, and loud music.....the same kind of calls we get in every neighborhood.  We had won.  I'm proud of the work we did.......but as I said, it took a commitment from the community and the local govt.  And we developed relationships with Prosecutors and Judges who knew what we were trying to do....and they were willing to send people away for long sentences.

It will take a MUCH larger commitment to bring crime down to those levels in large metro areas......and for all I know, it can't be done on that scale because you just can't put large groups of really dedicated people together....smaller groups are easier.  But I think it's a model to shoot for.  This is no longer a "neighborhood problem"......it's more like a national disaster.  We have to start by making room to get rid of bad people.......there is a segment of society that cannot be rehabilitated.  They are violent, soul-less people with no conscience. Unless you spend time around them you really have no idea how scary they are and how dedicated they are to a life of crime (they actually call it "work").  They will always get guns and they will always use them. 

If you really want gun control, you start there.

I have to say that was a really cool story. Thank you for your good service as a cop, LB.

Wow!

I'm impressed we've made it to page #4 and (with just a few exceptions), haven't turned it into a Right Wing v Left Wing argument.  It's way more complicated than that.

Let's significantly tax firearms sales (new and used) and ammunition and use the money to pay for law enforcement measures.

Stricter background checks

 A 'cooling off' period of a couple days period before you can take ownership. 

Close ALL the loopholes that allow firearms to change hands without background checks and proper documentation. 

Congress needs to repeal the ban on the govt. gathering of data involving firearms and shooting incidents.  That way we could target our resources where they may do the most good.

Link medical/mental health records to gun purchases.  The attending care provider can check a single box that says "This person is not currently suitable for firearms ownership/possession.  Until said person returns to a care provider and the box is 'unchecked', that person can't purchase guns/ammo and if found in possession of one, the penalties would be more sever.

The last gun death was two years ago - if I get the context right you're suggesting that's a long time ago and using that to back up the theory that gun crime is low?

The last shooting in my village was never.

There's a lot of things I like about America but you often come across as very selfish.  Very good with grateful words and gestures but actually be asked to put your convenience where your sentiment is and all hell breaks loose.

Admittedly you've taken it to a new level in that you don't want any changes to the gun culture you have that results in tens of thousands of lives lost in case you want to take up shooting as a hobby.

I'll treat the rest of your post with the contempt it deserves.

Honestly, that's offensive to me. I'm not offended by you because I don't think you meant it the way I take it, so I'll explain.  To put it bluntly, my country inconvenienced itself for 4 years and tens of thousands of lives to save yours during WWII.  It's OK with me if you just say thank you.  It's not ok with me when you start talking about how my country is very good with words but short on inconviencing itself.  That's just ridiculous. There are plenty of times when I wish my country would be selfish and just shut our doors to the rest of the world, because, well, you don't have a damn thing we need.  But I realize that WOULD be selfish.  Our doors have been open to the rest of the world for our entire history, and I'm glad for that or I wouldn't be here......trust me when I tell you it hasn't always been "convenient".

That's where my sentiment is.

Well that's how we do things differently.  You won't get easy, simple, meaningless gestures of thanks from Brits.  I didn't mean it the way you took it.  I meant it based on the fact I've worked for a US company for 15 years, travelled the place extensively and have several very good friends who are Americans.  Selfish isn't a bad thing.  Winners are usually selfish.  Successful people are usually selfish.  We all know that triathletes are always selfish. But sometimes it manifests itself in distasteful ways.

As far as WWII goes, I think you've been watching too many (Hollywood) war films.

The war wouldn't have been won without US involvement.  But 'you' didn't come over here out of the sweetness of your heart to help out England and the other allies.  If 'you' were interested in doing that you would have turned up many years earlier.  'you' turned up when there was a chance your own country and its 'influences' (as you call them) were under threat.  So while we were f'ing lucky that 'your' needs to protect 'your' own self interest meant that we won the war, you wouldn't have been there at all if it hadn't.

So no, as someone from a family that gave over 25 lives in that war, I won't be thanking you.

You don't wish you'd shut your doors as much as a hell of a lot of people outside of them wish you would.

Pretty typical British response.  No matter, we can just not agree.  I'm Irish, I'm not missing anything.