Fast Twitch Tri-FULL (Page 43)

DAVE again -

I couldn't find anything about your race sched here, but I went to PM and know that it's May5.  Now, about the first triathlon post-PM that matters to you??

AMY -

Great updated photo; it's an "new you"!

Which race was that from.....and how good was it for you that you look both incredibly fresh and pleased?

DAVE once more -

I have the printed plan and commentary at hand, and I will scrutinize then within a day or two.  But as a first quick perusal:

• Keep all the Sunday workouts intact!!
• Keep all the odd-week Tuesdays, which are the hill ones!
• As you enjoy speedwork.....it might be good for your psyche to keep the rest of the Tuesday workouts as well.
• How much of your bike time is gonna be outside, and how much on a trainer?
• If it's a lot of hoped-for outside riding....does work mean that you cannot ride except on weekends?  If so, that means that some of those saturday runs would have to become rides, right?
• Are you committed to the three pre-races (weeks 5, 7, 9), or might you just train past them?  FWIW, I did no preliminary races prior to Boston (and I say Boston here just because it's timing for me was so close to PM for you).
• If you are not pre-racing, then the following Saturdays could become bike days:  weeks 4, 5, 7, 8, 9.   Those are the ones that are either race days or easy runs.

That's a lot of my thought right there, with the final bits being (a) double-checking to make sure I actually believe waht all I just said, and (b) studying some of the weeks that have "pace" runs on saturday to see how those can be switched to Thursdays in those weeks -- if riding is essential for you on weekends.  And there's a further domino-effect to look at, which would be to move some of those "pace" runs to Wednesdays -- but only if you didn't do speedwork the previous day (that would be on the even weeks).

And then there are those Mondays to think about, which are all easy runs and short ones at that --- but good for "recovery" efforts.

Final thought is that HH is not making plans for a triathlete, and so by virtue as you being one of those tri types, something has to be altered.  As you have likely seen me say before (most recently to KATE, just a few days ago), my formwer coach used to tell me that crafting workout plans is more of an art than a science......which was his way of saying that switcheroos are essential and acceptable.  The caveat to that is to not go overboard with them, and to also try to keep most of the "integrity" of the original plan.  I'd say that is especially true for you, as the HH plan is timed so well with your marathon.

More later!  (But let me know your thoughts as to what I've tnetatively suggested above.)

Thanks for noticing   For some reason the picture has now disappeared and gone back to my old one......

That race was the Miami Beach half marathon in December of 2011.  I'm glad I pulled off looking pleased because I was very unhappy with my time and very spent!  Having trained in 30's and 40's in Michigan, I really underestimated not being climatized to the 80 degree 100% humidity.  Not only did I not PR, I think I BARELY even finished!

Amy (noelle), I still see the new one.

About 90 min longer run this morning. Not really a need to do more right now.

Yes, really odd.....when I go on the site from work where I uploaded the new pic it shows.  At home when I go on the site it shows my old one.  Technology baffles me 

AMY -

And for your photo confusion, I have no explanation.  In fact, I do not know how to get my own photos up here, or anywhere, and for that i rely on one of my "kids".  Both of them (ages almost-29 and just-26) grew up fully in the cyber-techno era, so it all comes easy for them.  For me, however, I am a Luddite whose techno-skills seem to have apexed with the abacus.  Sigh.

AMY again -

Well, good work on putting on the "brave face" followed MB h-m!

When I did Boston Marathon in '04, the forecast from about 10 days out was for high-80s for race day, April 19.  Now, as a born-and-bred Boston boy, I know how dramatically the weather can shift, hence the common old sawaround those parts: "If you don't like the weather, wait ten minutes." 

Of course, as race day approached I kept checking......and became increasingly concerned that NOTHING seemed to be changing.  I tried to console myself with thinking they were still working on a longer-range forecast, but that rang hollow.

Cutting to the chase --- starting temp for the race was 83, and of course that was a killer for those of us from the north.  It was a killer for hundreds and hundreds, though, and at least i was lucky to not be one of the ambumance casulaities, or even those who needed the med tent post-race, but had to wait a very long time to get in.  The Boston course is hardly a PR-type of course, so i just lowered any expectations I might've harbored at one point, and set about "staying within myself" and enjoying the colossal vibe of the thing. 

I was seriously happy to finish sub-4, and with absolutely no untoward ill-effects.  I am not known to always race smart, but that day i did and I'm glad of it -- better than being slumped by the road at mile 22, say!

Boston Marathon weather can be an equal-opportunity destroyer, though, as there are more times than not that race day brings colder temps than qualifiers from the sun belt have trained for.  But at least in '04, the sunbelters drew the long straw!

STEVE - Is it bad that it's taken me this long to mosey on over here to this group? My life has been whack lately, and I've been doing good to keep training and logging my workouts in Training Peaks. Is it too late, too little to join in the fun here?

BEN -

Nope, no need to exceed 90', unless there is a marathon on the horizon (or you're a glutton for wintry punishment!).

TRINA -

Ah, it's hardly at all bad..........and really not even sad.  (Just because i have been bereft without you for the past coupla months shouldn't be equated with "sad", exactly.)

Naw, an out-of-whack life goes with the turf of what we do with this multisport stuff, just one many "occupational hazards".  But it's good for you that you've been workoutedly productive, and I hope that your efforts have helped to un-whack you at times.  I often found the commitment to workouts a double-edged sword, wherein one can makes oneself crazy trying to fit everything in AND still have devotion to other aspects of their life, but that the rewards on various levels for perservering are oh-so-sweet.  Can ya dig it?

Glad to have you back, orbiting in my same plane!

STEVE -

I can totally dig it. 

Yes, training has indeed kept me somewhat sane....although my sanity was probably in question before life's nasty little hurdles presented themselves. I could go on and on about sanity and triathlon but I'll just spare you and all the other fine people in this group the ramblings of a semi-madwoman.

Sooo...if it's OK with everyone, I'll just humbly insert myself here for this season. Do I need to post a bio?

Hi Trina, glad to see you back!  You had been missed.

Steve - I did opt out of the indoor Sprint coming up this weekend as you recommended.  I don't yet feel like I have my running legs back yet and I was a bit hesitant about running up the stairs as well.

I had a decent swim today although very slow (lots of kicking drills) and just some mild nausea.  Then at home inspite of the nausea I decided to do a quick treadmill run so I did a brief warm-up/cool-down then ran 5.44km.  It wasn't too bad and based on how I felt today I'm thinking I'll soon bump up my pace by adding .2 to .4mph.  I was also pleased to notice the nausea disappeared while running.

Cycling tomorrow.

Here is a link Scout posted when he was still on here more often. Very simple running concepts. I've put together a few things for what I'm doing. And I just don't really have need for going over 90 min continuously. That one was 12 miles and only touched the easy/moderate edge late in it because I was a little tired going in. I do get more miles in the day a few times a week, but break it up into a couple runs so it's not such a drain at one time.

Steve, bolded above is what we say in Michigan as well 

Your Boston experienced sounded like Miami.  I almost bailed on that race.  I felt so incredibly ill.  Then just as I started to settle into the level of discomfort from the heat index and zone out, what do I see but the MacArther Causway.  It's Florida....you think flat, right?  Well, we had forgotten to take into account that we had to go up that bridge--you know, the one tall enough to let all the Miami ported CRUISE SHIPS pass underneath--and we had to do it twice, once out and once back.  That almost killed me.

When I finished, people were puking all over the place.  People were talking about how their full marathon pace was much faster than what they had done that day for a half.  Live and learn....climitization is not to be under estimated!

AMY -

In complete seriousness, I invariably learn far more about myself -- and the racing process -- from bad races than from the good ones.  The bad ones can have any number of blatently obvious lessons, but the best ones are the ones that need to be dug for -- and doing that is often not a pleasant process at all.  I mean, it becomes almost like deep psychoanalysis, requiring both the willingness to probe, and then the willingness to admit to -- take ownership for -- the mistakes that were made.  Of course, many times it is not that dire, with Situations Beyond Our Control more to blame than anything we did that was patently stupid.  (But I have sure had my share of those!)

Do I really want to have another day similar to Boston? NO!!!  And I'm sure you feel pretty much the same way about Miami, yes?  But as I read your account, you learned (a) what it feels like to bail on bailing, (b) how to proceed through illness, (c) the effects of a severely high heat index, and (d) what it's like to climb a massive bridge that wasn't supposed to be there.  And the longer you do this stuff, the better the odds are that you will revisit each of the four travails above......but with a much better ability to handle them next time around.  Ta-da!

Finally (and I'm just adding this to confuse you --- although I mean it!), there is also much to be learned from judiciously deciding/needing to bail on a race (or even a workout).  I have done that a number of times at the last minute, more or less, when I just admit that it is not worth it to my health to attempt the race.  That's a good old DNS, twin sibling to the maybe tougher-to-do DNF -- when you are a certain way through the race and just know that you cannot finish.  There is absolutely nothing pleasant about these happenings, but good can come out of them when you're wiling to analyze what all went wrong in the first palce, and how you reacted to it in the second place.

All this sports psychology stuff is too much fun!!!!

TRINA -

Training and sanity?  They can go together like a hand in a glove!

And FWIW, I have never (well, not too often, anyhow) questioned your sanity.  Okay, there was your trail ride down into the Grand Canyon, or something like it, but other than that/those, you're sane as a chipmunk!

But now that you have labelled yourself a "semi-madwoman"...........

As for the bio, maybe a small one would be nice.  You've been around and had some ups and downs, and all of that sort of thing is edifying to those in attendance, so whenever you get the time, a wee synopsis of yourself might be nice.

(By the by, I love the lick/kick kerfuffle in your PM.  Failure to proofread....or Freudian slip??

GEORGE -

The more I thought abiout that run, with the stairs and all, the more I gott worried.  But I should never let my own fears and failings influence the activities of others, or at least beyond just reminding folks of a potential hazard or two.  It's a tough line to straddle!

Good swim effort, and GREAT 'mill run afterwards.  Those bump-up numbers are perfect by way of being smartly gradual, and your body will appreciate it fully!

OK - so here's a question (and a specific one, rather than some of my more "thoughtful" ones...) - or perhaps a second go 'round of a previous question, just with a bit more time behind it.  Not exactly a fast twitch query, but it is about speed, so...

I have this HM in a few weeks.  Between the weather and a longer than expected bike tune up, plus nursing a recovering shoulder, I've been almost a single sport run guy for over a month, and following the Higdon advanced HM plan pretty much to the letter (all 12 weeks - 3 weeks to go).

My Nov. 4th HM was 1;43:30 (very good for me...).  I am shooting for a 1:40 this time and will run into the pain cave to get there (!).  I've been using my target race time to calc my running paces during training (and it's amazing how much faster those few minutes make ALL the other target paces!).

BUT, my times (though really good for me) haven't been bumping up all that much on my 10k or 15k "races" (not real races, just me going out and pushing as if I'm in a race).  I get well into threshold HR but my times still predict a 1:43 or slower.   I'm just a bit tired, too...  That said, I've been able to hit my paces for all the speed work (including mile reps, quarters, half, etc.) and tempo runs, and have been able to do the distance runs no problem.  It's just the longer "race" efforts that I'm not at target.

For those who might have done this before, is there a dip in race-level performance from fatigue when you're 3 weeks out from a race, and the taper helps bump you up (more than a few seconds over a HM), or have I approached my meager genetic potential? 

I know - it's impossible to tell, so just go run and see!  Planning on it, but thought I'd ask if others have felt like this close to a race and then pulled out a better race day performance... or didn't.

Thanks!

Matt

Matt, how rested were you for the test races? Did you rest up or taper at all? It makes a difference. You might not be able to hit higher HR levels or you'll end up slower for a certain HR. Not sure of factors for each, but have seen both.

Also noticed that you used your target time to set your paces. Why did you do that instead of using current fitness?

Not particularly well rested - maybe an extra light day that week, but not an extra day completely off (I think I rode an hour during the "rest or easy" Friday and Saturday off before the 15k, for example).  I definitely felt like I was pushing (got and kept the HR high - right in the middle of threshold, and at the top of it for the last mile or two), but just not moving fast.  Felt almost weird...

As for using target time, well, I like a challenge.    Seriously, though, I used those times to try to push my fitness level to where I want it to be for the race, rather than just where I was at the start of training.  With the difference of 3.5 minutes across a HM, the speed and mid-distance paces all bumped by 10-15 seconds per mile, give or take, and I thought (think) that pushing up by that much is the appropriate challenge to the system.  Might be ill advised, but I figured that I should run like I want to race if I could - it's worked on most of the distances (even my 10k test effort was a PR, though a bit slower than needed to predict a 1:40 HM).  I'm really only concerned about injury - but that seems more likely to come from running too much than bumping the pace 15"/mile or so, at least so far.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Matt

MATT - Great work and impressive goal! Several points to suggest 1:40 is totally doable for you:

1.  I think it's virtually impossible to simulate race conditions on your own.

2. If you did all of the workouts in that plan, than you were not sufficiently rested for the "race efforts" for them to be a true point of comparison to your tapered race day.

3. Taper is huge from a mental as well as physical perspective to get you ready for the effort you'll need to give.

4. If you're hitting all of the goal paces and you've done the mileage, then you've got to trust Hal and his plan!

5. After reading Iron War, I'm convinced that very few of us ever actually see what our bodies can truly do. Some of us come closer than others, but the brain (pain) will tell you to shut it down long before the legs actually reach their breaking point.

How's your fueling & nutrition? Feeling not fast in one of your race efforts might be a sign that you don't have that dialed in for race day.

Anyway, just $.02 from someone who has done exactly one HM race!

Matt,

I can't duplicate race pace on my own -- just not enough adrenaline and I think I get bored and lose focus. It's also pretty easy to slow down if it hurts and no one is there to call you names. I can push a little harder if I am running with friends, but still not race pace. You are probably going to be right on pace.

Hoosierman

So wise Steve.  You should really mentor or something.......