Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed (Page 43)

Like Dirk pointed out, remember to take it easy occasionally.  I think part of my problem is that when an increase comes I feel good and want more and just keep revving the motor until something has to give.  Remember to have a "cutback" week every few weeks. I'm talking to myself...maybe if I say it enough...I'll remember...probably not!

Now is there ever,a need for triathlons to do 100 yard sprints like the track runners do?

Not 100 sprints but using the track to get specific speed work outs in over longer distances have been recommended by others.  I have seen 4x400 m/440 yds and 4x1200 workouts prescribed.  There really is no need to do some of the short sprints because we simply don't care about the fast twitch muscle reflexes that true sprinters use.

I think it look pretty good as long as you are getting your pace at or just below threshold, which is the basic target for tempo runs.  Usually the pace is described as 10k pacing or a shade slower.  You should also have a plan to begin to stretch the tempo distance out to 3-4 miles over a period of weeks to allow for certain adaptations to occur.  If you perform a slow increase in distance your body will adapt to the impacts more easily and it will provide less risk of injury.

So,

• Yyour WO looks okay but what is the 8:00 mile? 
• You don't need to push into the 5k pace at all for tempo purposes.
• And I would suggest 1 mile CD.

Here's what my tempo's looked like when I was doing them.

• 1 or 2 miles at easy pace (8:00-8:30).  I let my body tell me if one mile was enough.  Many times I needed that 2nd mile to get my legs geared up and my cardio and mind ready as well.
• 1-5 miles at tempo pace (6:50-6:30).  Also remember that the first mile is going to be the hardest.  Your body is adjusting to the faster pace and the initial high pace will be getting your HR beyond a comfortable area.  Once beyond the first half mile things begin to get easy psychologically because the initial  physical changes have begun to settle in.
• 1-2 miles cool down.  The last mile or two were always needed to allow your body to get back to a normal easy pace and allow your systems to recover without a complete physical shut down of running.  Slowing your HR allows your body to begin to drop your blood pressure in a more controlled nature and allows blood to get back into the rest of your body that hasn't been under intense pressure for the last X minutes.  The cool down also allows waste to begin clearing from those parts of the body most affected by the intensity.  so don't skip this important aspect of tempo runs.

Not 100 yard sprints like track runners, but there is a place for strides within most long runs.  Jeff has pontificated eloquently on exactly how to do strides.  I really think that it's a good idea to throw in some strides during your long runs.

Okay, here's what Jeff said in our last group so he doesn't have to retype it!  Took more digging than I expected but I found it!  I thought I knew whereabouts he said it because he said it in response to an issue I had, and I knew when I had said issue!  Anyway, here are his thoughts on strides:

I haven't talked about this in this particular mentor group, but some of the folks that have been in my group in the past might remember this.   I recommend (even though I don't always follow my own recommendation) that we ALWAYS keep a habit of doing 'strides' in our training plan.   It should be once per week, either at the end of a shorter run, or a few miles in to a longer run.  After you are good and warmed up, but not fatigued yet.  Stop at a good location, or don't stop if your run course offers you good locations along the way.  A good location has about 100 yards of straight flat area.  Do 3-5 strides with a gentle rest between them.  Usually walking.  It's not to be challenging aerobically so start the next one when you are breathing normally.  You end each one before you are breathing heavily (the heavy breathing follows the completion of the stride).

The top speed just reaches 90% at the peak of the stride, not 100%...there's no strain.

This won't be hard on the body, but keeps the legs ready for fast speed running.  If Samantha had been doing this regularly all year round, she could step in to 400s at any point without the soreness she experienced.

The same is true for us...for instance, each winter I run a 5k in January.  This 5k leaves me sore and beat up....because it's the ONLY time all winter I come anywhere near running a 6:00/mile pace....that's because I don't do the strides like I should.

Matt, for what it's worth I concur with Dirk all around.  You can begin with 1 tempo run per week and follow his advice on executing it.

Your easy runs can stay your current pace but remember that the main value in slowing down your training pace is so that you can increase your mileage.  If your mileage won't be increasing any more due to training time limits in your schedule then your pace should probably begin to pick up gradually to increase your training load. 

From all of the talk in the past about the dangers of running hard, make sure if you do this it's very gradual.  You can use HR as your guide if your HR tends to be pretty consistent.  I like perceived exertion.  My rule of thumb is that if you are going too fast you notice it.  Your mind is brought back to your discomfort.  It's easy enough when your mind can truly wander and you never thought about your running.

I would like to comment on weight training to follow up on what Dina was asking....From the description ('tired' legs) I judged that the weight workout was NOT too intense.  Karl, on the other hand, talked about having to walk funny for 3 days after a leg workout.  That IS too intense (in the scope of triathlon training).

Fatigue is a good thing.  Accept it and press in to it knowing that every minute of exercise done while fatigued is multiplying your adaptation response.  PAIN on the other hand means you did your strength workout too intensely and it's not wise.  It's not wise because it will force you to miss workouts.  If you want to develop crushing strength, don't try to do it in 1 workout.  Each workout should leave you just a bit sore but still able to do your workouts.  Each weight workout will then be able to be increased weekly until you are really hitting it and have only a satisfying amount of soreness the next day.

You don't want to create muscle hemorage (don't ask me how I know), you just want to gradually force the muscles to adapt bit by bit.

But fatigue is a good thing!....in small batches.  Say Monday's workout leaving you fatigued for Tuesday's workouts...Perhaps in to Wednesday...but if fatigue carries over many days on end you want to bring yourself back to a fresh state.  Don't want to risk injury.

I did.  But my chair doesn't go as high as I think would be good.  But I have kept it as high as it goes all week.  I also have been trying to use the mouse and type with arms outstretched, although I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it is different from what I usually do... although then yesteday I did have the thought that perhaps outstreching the arms is not a good thing, since it's straight arms that got me into problems in the first place (from swimming)...

Jeff thanks for explaining the fatigue thing a little more and the difference from just being tired as opposed to being very sore beyond the point of normal fatigue. One of my friends always hammers this point home that you build fitness when you are fatigued.

One question for you guys in regards to the strides and tempo runs. How much value is there in doing that in my case? I mean for Ironman? I am specifically training for the run more like "time on my feet" as opposed to trying run a specific time goal. I mean if I am able to get to the run first and then actually run it I was thinking it would probably be slow like in the 11 minute mile range. Is there still some benefit there for me to be looking to add some strides to my runs?

I will say that strides and tempo runs are non-value add for your specific goal of Ironman.  No specific benefit.

But as a triathlete and/or a runner, it's a general discipline that will pay you dividends later on in shorter triathlons and shorter foot races.  If you feel "all systems go" then I suggest you throw in a few strides here and there even though they don't help you for Ironman.  But that being said, don't risk a muscle pull or tendon pull if you feel like your training load has you at less than 100% in the legs (which is probably the case).

Jeff thanks and the reason I asked was that I know as part of the training plan I am going to use, Don Fink's IronFit training plans he does have that sort of thing as part of the run training where you are doing your runs aerobic but he builds into some of those runs where you go harder than aerobic for a several minutes within the run for specific runs at specific points in the training plan.

There is a substantial value in tempo runs for IM.  Tempo runs aren't simply about developing speed.  More intense work outs can develop a better physiological efficiency to your running.  Running at higher speeds with more intensity develops your aerobic and anaerobic machine into a more efficient energy producer. 

Tempo runs are generally done at a pace that is above aerobic capacity, therefore it is anaerobic.  Anaerobic, simply stated, means lack of oxygen.  Aerobic is something that is done while the body is able to deliver oxygen on demand.

There are 2 important benefits (for our discussion) of anaerobic development for us as endurance athletes.

1. Improve your VO2 max (the highest amount of oxygen one can consume during exercise) which is basically improving your respiratory efficiency.
2. Increase the ability of your body prevent the buildup of lactic acid and remove them from the body. This means your endurance and ability to fight fatigue will improve.

Point two is what would be most important for you during IM.  Over the course of 140 miles you'll have the luxury of developing all kinds of fatigue and the further you can push this out the better you're going to feel late in the race.  I would suggest you do tempo runs myself.  However, I wouldn't begin doing them anytime soon.  You don't really need to do them for long periods because of the injury risk.  Running a lot of slow, easy miles will develop your aerobic capacity right now and that's fine.  I think you could wait until you're a few months away from IM before you begin them.

Thanks for the input on the tempo and speed work.  I am currently in a build mode and working my weekly miles up, hoping to get up around 40-45 by the end of March.  So with this in mind I don't think it would be wise to sprint down the block , I may add in a mile here or there but nothing major.  I will be doing quite a bit of hill work so I can do the 14 mile trail run so that should help!  The 5k workout I showed earlier wasn't bad and could be an option.

My next question, Dirk mentioned that the tempo work should coincide with a race.  How far out from the race should the tempo work start to be built in?  My Spring half is at the end of April, so I was thinking to start around mid-march to build the tempo runs up until the race date.  Most likely by this time I will not be able to build any more miles without doing 2 runs per day, and that doesn't ffit the bike plan.

Good discussions yesterday. I guess I was thinking with the fatigue I was/am feeling in my legs, that it is not going to go away based on the tri focused workouts I had planned for the weekend of all riding and running with no breaks until Tuesday. So then is adding another weight workout for my legs necessary or even beneficial in that regard. But I get it now

On a side note, my sister had her baby last night. Thanks to anyone who has been thinking of or praying for her over the last few months. Her name is Violet Rose, 5 lbs and 17" long and everyone is doing great! She gets to bring her home Sunday.

Dina congrats to your sister on the new addition to the family. I'm so happy to hear that both your sister and the baby are doing well. She's tiny though at 5 pounds. My oldest daughter was 5 pounds and change when she was born and I remember just how small she was. I'm sure you guys are all happy and excited to see her come home.

Awe.  Congratulations Auntie Dina!  Glad to hear everyone is doing good.

Dina, CONGRATS!!! 

Dirk and Jeff, excellent running information, thanks for taking the time to post!

Well I had a sort of run breakthru today and ya'll PLEASE tell me if I'm wrong.  As I was running, I was trying to forefoot strike, well I was landing on about the toe next to my little toe, and that was running down the outside of my entire leg.  So I tried to correct that and land mid foot and the pain subsided a little but I seemed to be slower.  Does that make sense?

On another positive note, my swimming is improving so fast...well for me..  I can now swim 600 - 700 yards non stop, it is slow, I timed just a relaxed swim for 100yards and it was 2:20.  I'm not concerned w/ speed, just finishing the swim.  I did do 1 sprint of 50 yards and it was 45 seconds but i was wiped out after that.

Awesome news regarding your swimming, Karl!  When I did the bilateral breathing 400 the other day, I was doing about a 2:10 per 100.  That's really slow but I was able to keep going without breaking the bilateral thing.  We are both having swimming breakthroughs!  High five!