Gray Guys/Girls Master's Focus Triathlon Mentor Group--CLOSED (Page 45)

Scott - you're right.  No pain is a big deal.  Plus, I had a good run early today followed by a decent OWS.

I was swimming with two 70 yr olds and usually they leave me well behind but today I was right in the mix with them.  While we were swimming the second half of the swim I passed a swimmer on my right then noticed he stayed with me about 10' behind.  It was only as we finished that I realized it was one of my friends.

When we started the swim the lake was fairly calm but very quickly the wind came up and I was taking in water with every breath.  On the return the waves were quite rough.  I was bouncing up and down a couple feet with each wave.  So when I turned to swim in to the shore it was really neat to ride each wave on the way in.

We finally had a break in the HOT weather... Sunday was actually long sleeve weather...

Today did a pool swim in our Oly size outdoor pool.   My friend that I swim with - whom is a bit faster... was really fast today.  She did say it looked like I was fighting the water...  Uuugh!

Going to try my farmer john (sleeveless) wetsuit at a local outdoor lake tonight.    With the warmer temps I am guessing a full suit at the end of the month will be way too hot.  

Heading to vacation on Friday - panicking a bit because I don't feel trained enough and I have Calgary 70.3 at the end of the month.  I plan to run and I have registered for some laps swims while I am on vaca.  Hoping that will build my confidence.   Calgary's cut-off time is 8 hours instead of the 8:30 like most other 70.3 races and I am praying I finish within the allotted time.

I am biking tomorrow with my friend (she survived IMCDA bike) and it should be about 40 miles round trip of some good rollers.  Tomorrow is my second to last ride until race day because of my vaca. 

Nothing else new - happy training to all of you!

Scott – glad to hear you’re able to get back in the pool.

Steve – I thought about you when they were showing the fires on the news last week.  I wish I could send some of our rain your way (and to the rest of the west coast too).  We’ve had the wettest summer in about 20 years here.

I did a duathlon 2 weeks ago that went pretty well.  I was using it mostly as a training day (have a sprint tri on the same course in Sept) especially for the bike leg.  It’s a hilly course and since I usually avoid hills whenever possible I figured it would be a good chance to check out how I would do.  I did end up walking my bike a little bit on a couple of the steeper hills – still need to work on shifting for hills - but did OK for the most part. 

My next race is this Sunday – it’s a short course (450m/15m/2m) that I did last year also.  My swimming and biking have both improved this year and I’m not dealing with a leg injury so my goal is to beat last year’s time, which should be doable.  I missed 3^rd in my AG by 13 seconds last year so there’s the extra incentive this year of *maybe* getting a podium spot.  I know it depends on who shows up that day but it just might be that little extra motivation I need to push me past my comfort zone.  Either way, I’m excited about the race and it looks like we just might have a dry weekend for it!

Janet

Hey Deb,

First, it has been a while since I read the Power Meter Handbook, however if memory serves me correctly, when J.Friel suggested 91-105% FTP for rides of 30-90 minutes, he was talking about stand alone cycling events (I could be mistaken as this old mind doesn't have the retention it once had!) - you have to run when you get off the bike so those numbers may be a little optimistic.  In any case, what Joe said is irrelevant if you have never done it in training.  The general rule of thumb for an Olympic Triathlon distance bike is 85-95% FTP.

I looked at your training logs and see a couple rides that closely approximate an Olympic bike - specifically the July 7 and July 8 rides.  In both rides you were in the saddle ~1:45 and rode 23 and 22 miles respectively.  That is close enough to an Olympic distance to draw some conclusions.  As an added bonus to help determine pacing, on the July 7 ride you did a brick and ran 2 miles off the bike. 

I pulled data from your training log and calculated your FTP and then extrapolated to get what I think will be proper pacing for you.  I didn't post all the math as I wasn't sure you'd want the world seeing all that (I will be happy to share it just drop me a private message).  The Reader's Digest version is I would use 75-83% FTP as my target power giving an IF of 0.75-0.83.  Then start your run in HR Z1 for the first 1K to get your legs under you and build through the remainder of the run.

A word about using power for pacing.  If your target power is 80% FTP then that is the number you want to see on your 510.  I put two numbers on my screen - Average power (3-sec smoothing) on top and HR on the bottom.  Say for example that your FTP is 100 for the sake of easy discussion.  If your target power is 80% FTP then you want to see 80 on your 510 for average power.  Uphill, downhill, flats, doesn't matter - you want to see 80.  Going uphill that will mean catching a lower gear to keep your cadence up and hold 80 watts - yep that might mean people will be passing you going up the hills, you will catch them when they blow up on the run.  Going downhill, you grab a higher gear and hold your power at 80 - that means you will be flying and likely passing people that are coasting down the hill.  When you get to the flat, grab the right gear to put you at your optimal cadence and hold your power at 80.

Why you ask?  There is a metric called variability index (VI).  It is your Normalized Power divided by your average power.  In a perfect world, the result of that equation will be 1.00 - meaning you had no surges.  In reality, for a triathlon, a VI of < 1.05 is very good.  When your VI begins to rise, it means you were surging and burning burning precious energy THAT YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO BURN.  Hills are the bane of most age group triathletes existence.  They see people that have no understanding of bike pacing passing them on the hill and they speed up, stated another way, they surge up the hill and their VI goes through the roof - and then they pay for it during the run.  The perfect bike split is the one that allows you to run off the bike and typically is the one that has a VI of less than 1.05.  You get that by holding your power rock steady at the target power - uphill, downhill, and on the flats.

Now, here is the key thing to remember through all of this - you have already done this in training!  On July 7 and July 8, you rode for nearly the full Olympic distance at an IF of ~0.80.  You already know you can do it, now all you have to do is execute the plan on race day.

And YES, I would definitely do the club run-though using that target power on the bike and race pace for the run.  That will clearly show you that your pacing is correct.

Hope that helps!

Deb,

When I wrote that you should maintain the target power, I was assuming flat to light rolling hills - which is what MOST triathlons are held on (there are a few that have significant climbs, indeed climbs that would be rated climbs in a bike race).

If the course is flat or relatively flat, then I try and maintain target power, however if the course has significant hills, then the 50-40-30-20-10 rule would be more appropriate.  Now, I suppose the next question is, "How do you define flat or relatively flat?"  I think anything less than about 1% grade is relatively flat.  That number will probably change for different athletes.  To answer that question really requires that you spend time in the saddle on various grade hills under different situations - i.e., if you are on a true flat, and come to a 1% grade, you will likely feel it and know you are on a grade, on the other hand, if you are climbing a 6% grade and it drops off to a false flat 1% grade it will feel really easy and will almost feel like you're going downhill.

Here is a link to a Joe Friel article that covers this very topic:

http://www.joefrielsblog.com/2010/08/coast-or-pedal-on-a-downhill.html

Hope that helps.

Edited because I can't seem to spell!

Deb,

Yeah that 4.2% little hill might cause a moment of pause.  I looked again at the numbers I figured out the other day.  I made several different assumptions for your weight however they all gave me pretty much the same result.  Your predicted speed up that 4.2% grade at 80% FTP would be ~ 12-13 MPH (That is a very rough estimate).  That translates to ~ 19-23 KPH, putting you between the pedal hard and pedal steady brackets using the 50-40-30-20-10 rule.  For me personally, I would likely still stick pretty close to my target power, both up and down the hills.  Remember the recommended range was 75-83% FTP.  You have some "wiggle room" there where you can elevate you power slightly going up and still be true to your target output.

I don't know if you have heard the term "burning matches."  When you burn a match, you have put forth a hard effort - the type of effort where you really have to push yourself.  Every time you have a sudden acceleration or power over a hill, you burn a match.  We all start a race with different size matchbooks, and there are only a finite number of matches in our personal matchbook.  For triathletes, when you start burning matches on the bike, you are likely doing so at the expense of the run.  That isn't to say that you should never burn a match(es), however, you need to be intelligent about how you go about burning them and you need to count the metabolic cost of burning those matches.

You have the club run-through this week.  I would ride the course at your target power and run at your target race pace.  At the end of that you will have a VERY good idea of how accurate your bike pacing was, from which you could adjust your pace as needed.  It sounds like maybe the course isn't that far away?  So maybe you could get out and do it again a week later?  Just thinking out loud.

Hey Deb,

I commented on this separately because it has everything to do with your race, and nothing to do with your race, all at the same time.  You may be aware of what I am about to say, but others may not so I thought I would share.

We have been talking about climbing hills - grade and length isn't really that important to the discussion at hand as we will be talking in general terms.

I want to look at the metabolic cost of climbing hills.  Consider that Power = Cadence x Force.

Assuming the same power output, as cadence goes up, the force applied during each pedal stroke goes down.  Conversely, as cadence goes down, the force applied during each pedal stroke must go up.  The higher your cadence, the lower the metabolic cost.

Here is an example that illustrates the point a little more clearly.  Imagine it takes you 5-minutes to ride up a hill at 70 RPM.  You divided the work of climbing the hill into 350 pieces (assuming one revolution of the pedals is one unit of work).  On the other hand, if your cadence were 95 RPM and all other things were equal, you would have divided the work up into 475 pieces.  Now you have taken the same elevation gain, in the same amount of time, but have broken the work down into smaller pieces - there will be less work per revolution of the pedals.

If you want to get better at climbing hills, keep your cadence up!  If you want a really good example, the Tour de France is starting into the mountains on Tuesday.  Watch how the pro-cyclists handle the hills.  It isn't uncommon to see the top climbers spinning at over 100 RPM!

The talk on power and climbing hills is very interesting.  I very clearly need to make some changes in my own climbing.  I am a bad "Masher", working up hills at very low cadence and consequently very slow speeds.  This is exciting because it may help me get better at climbing hills.

On that note.  Yesterday, I rode in our local Granfondo with 2500 of my closest friends (maybe I knew 5 or 6).  We started at 7am in a crush of riders and in less than a km we came to our 1st climb - not huge but from the bottom looking up the hill at over 1000 cyclists helmets sparkling in the early morning sunlight it was pretty amazing sight.  I was just riding the Cortofondo (55km).

People spread out quickly and we headed out on the way to Summerland.  I wasn't in a hurry and not inclined to race as I was only riding 55km and I'm tapering for Chelan so I was just enjoying the ride and avoiding any draughting groups (too many novices).  We passed 3 or 4 medical emergencies all being looked after and I came to my one main goal.  To climb the Summerland hill 1.8km in under 11 minutes.  I charged up and was doing really well (for me),  I was even passing a lot of people.  I was excited, this is great!  I'm nearing the top - this is the last curve!  Pop!!!  No way!  Literally within sight of the top I had a flat.

I hopped off my bike and before I collected myself a bike mechanic drove up and ran over and changed my tube for me very quickly.  Yay!  The mechanic then told me my tires (new this year) are shot and must be replaced 5 days before Chelan.  I managed to get going on the steep hill again then headed up the last bit of the hill to the top.  My official time for the hill was :18:06.  I'll beat it next year.  The hill is timed for everyone.  Later I found out little kids and an 87 yr old man were faster than me.  The 87yr old had a time of 5:54 and the young boy was 4:44.  Every age group was twice as fast as my 11 minute times.

After this I got back to the highway and we were spread out so I could get going faster and I was passing a lot of people all the way back to Penticton.

Once in Penticton I relaxed and just enjoyed riding up MainSt in the middle of the road without any traffic.

All too soon it was ovsr at the finish line.  A bit anticlimatic.  I would have preferred to do the Mediofondo (92km) or the Granfondo (160km).  This was our coolest day in many weeks at 86F.  All riders were grateful it wasn't as hot as Coeur d'Alain (sp?)

Except for my flat it was a lot of fun.

George,

Hmmmm, my read of this is that the mechanic took 7:07 to change your tire!  Meaning you made your time goal, right? 

Good recap of the ride.

My race on Sunday went pretty well.  I made my goal of beating last year's time (by a little over 5 minutes) - did better in all 3 legs but worse in the transitions.  They changed up the in's and out's of transition this year which I think probably accounts for the difference.  The swim went really well - I'm still slow but a lot steadier than I was last year (no flipping onto my back or stopping to catch my breath this year).  I felt really comfortable the whole way on the bike and my average speed was up this year - I even passed quite a few people, something I never do!  The run was tough - it had gotten pretty hot by then and I think I may have pushed a little too much on the bike, but I still ended with a good time.  Now I've got 9 weeks to work on hills - for the bike and run - for my next race in Sept.

Janet

Scott - I started up the hill with a friend and her official time up the hill was :10:xx so I'm pretty certain I would have been very close to the same time.  Next year I'm aiming for 9 minutes.

Deb - My time was an unimpressive 2:42:xx for the 55km route.  There were two good climbs totaling 364m (1194') and the highway between Penticton and Summerland are about the nearest to flat riding that we have in our area.  

Janet - I read your race report and it sounds like you did pretty well in your Sprint.  Your swim time wasn't that bad at all and your bike time was about 25kph (in my part of the world) which is pretty decent.  Overall, I'd say you did very well and I'd also say you have a lot of potential to improve even further.

I'm in mid taper and not doing anything this week.  I don't mind too much but I went down to Okanagan Lake this morning to watch my friends swim and the lake sure looked inviting.  Calm, clear and warm.  Very few people wearing wetsuits as the lake is just too warm at about 23C/ 73.4F or higher.

My wife and I will be driving down to Chelan on Friday and after we get there I'll be swimming for 30 minutes just to acquaint myself with the lake.  I'm being careful not to get myself too excited.  I find anticipation is much worse than actually doing the race.

My wife wants to run down to Wenatchee (Costco run) on Sunday morning after I have my PANCAKE breakfast (post race celebration).  I also like a BBQ steak dinner post race as well.  

Deb, I realized when I wrote my last post that I said it wrong.  The dinner is for Saturday evening and the pancake breakfast is for Sunday morning.  When I've raced before we have just made it a tradition to have a steak dinner post race.  Well, steak for me and Vegan for my wife.  Although, some of her food looks pretty tempting.

Steve - I had heard of the cable underwater at Chelan but I also had the advantage of a line underwater at Lake Stevens only to get too relaxed following the line and forgot to make the turn until 25 m too late.  It only slowed me down a little - maybe a minute or less.  I presume there is a buoy marking the turn around point?  I will stay to the inside though.  Thanks.