Asphalt Junkies Spring 2013 - Closed (Page 47)

Have you tried the Brooks Glycerine? I'm a pretty neutral runner too and need a wide toe box - I liked these better than the Asics Nimbus and the Nike Pegasus that I had.

I've never tried Brooks.  I'll check them out.  Thanks!

Had an interesting run today. Ran with a group of friends doing the 5.2 mile loop in central park and I decided to tag along. We were aiming for something around 9:30/mile (which is kind of where I was at coming into today) and I ran without looking at my HR. We ended up with a sub 9 min pace. The run felt good for the most part, the hills (may be 4-5 of them in total) were challenging and for me, this was the first time I ran 5 miles without a single walk break. When I looked at my heart rate at the end of the run, I see it averaged 175 and I was a bit shocked. I definitely felt the effort but we had a good conversation throughout and I'd say my RPE was probably a 6-7. 

Is this likely just a factor of me not having a good enough run foundation? And is it something I should worry about and not do until I can get my HR down. I think I kinda know the answer about the HR part - I need to test my HR zones and it could be vary from one person to another. But I was torn between making this a weekly run (with a fun group of people) versus potentially injuring myself. I have been running 3x a week (30-35 mins each) and it has felt good, so was looking to add 1 more run per week.

Should I take the other three runs much slower and control my HR while pushing myself on this one? Should I not run with the group for a while? Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks!

Bhargav, great running.  I will let the experts recommend what to do for you next run.

Matt...lol  sushi...lol

Tracy, also when you go to the store, try on a pair of Brooks Ghost 5

Jen, I hope you get better by Sunday, really start taking zinc...keep a cold ez in your mouth almost all day.  By the way, i was running yesterday morning early..it was still dark but i saw a reflection in the road, it was a penny and it was heads up...so watch out!

Dirk, how is your foot, no report lately???  I went to your logs and you seem to be getting better?  Also will you post to the group how you are taping your foot and just discuss taping in general.  How tight, how often, would compression socks do the same thing?  Don't hold back...lol  Also, I guess the storm will be keeping you busy.

I sure hope the storm leaves al the Junkies alone.  Good Luck and take care everyone.

Good questions and I'll let the mentors answer the technical stuff. I've faced some of the same social issues. There is a group of local ladies who run in the mornings a few days a week. Their pace is slightly faster than what I would run by myself. In my case, I used to try to run with them sometimes. Maybe every other week or once a month instead of every week. That way I had something to look forward too but didn't have to stress about injury every week.

Congrats on what sounds like a fun run!

Bhargav nice run last night. I will defer to the experts here on your HR question as well. If you felt good while you were running it doesn't sound like an issue or anything to worry about but I'm sure you'll get input from the rest of the group on this.

Jen sorry to hear about the cold. Take care of yourself and rest up for the HM this weekend no need to push yourself especially if your not feeling well.

Good plan to rest.  You've done the training and you'll be ready.  Just give it everything you have with whatever you have to give on race day.  Try some zinc vitamin C.  I know the medical professionals say it may not help, but I've found they help me stave off or at least slow down simple colds.

So much to comment on in this post!  First, this type of run is typical of groups runs (and rides) where we set out to do a certain pace and end up doing a much more aggressive pace.  It’s human nature to turn every session into at least a little bit of a competition.  This is one of the negatives of group training, unless you have a VERY disciplined group, especially the leader.  But it can be a positive as well.

Second, running a sub nine pace is significantly faster than the upper 9’s.  So the HR jump doesn’t seem all that alarming, I think it’s simply a function of a much faster pace and the hills.  Also, did your HR climb throughout the run?  I can’t see from your logs how hilly some of your other runs are, but this one was quite a bit longer than you’ve been going and HR drift is also typical as the runs get longer.

In terms of should you run easier – I’d say for optimal training the answer is yes.  I’d really like to see you add that 4^th run, and even a 5^th or 6^th if there’s any way to fit it in.  We don’t run easier just to run easier – we run easier so we can run more and stay healthy (see Jeff’s post on the forces of run speed).  But also consider, we do this sport for fun, so if running with some friends stretches you and is fun, I’d say go for it if as long as it’s within your capabilities and you aren’t getting injured.

As an example of running pace, I listened to a podcast where they interviewed three elite runners.  I understand these are runners only, so I’m not sure exactly how this translates to triathlon and sharing training time, but here’s the Reader’s Digest version.  They were a 1500 meter Olympic runner, a sub 2:10 marathoner, and a US champion master runner.  All three ran a HUGE percentage, like 85-90%, of their miles at ridiculously easy paces.  Like 1:30-2:00 slower than their marathon pace.  As a percentage, that’s like 35-40% slower than they run a marathon.  For a shlep like me, who runs a half in the upper 1:40s, that would mean a typical training pace around 11:20!  I don’t think I’ve ever run at that pace.

I’m just mentioning this as a reminder.  Most of our running can be a lot slower than we run and still be very beneficial – it’s more about the time on your feet.  The current trend is to say "how can you race fast when you don't train fast", but then I see a guy training at 7:00 pace and running 4:50s for an entire marathon and I'd say that argument isn't valid.  But when it's time and you’re ready to run hard, run hard.  Even in very small doses speedy running has a huge impact.

Hah, I couldn't help but laugh, because I had the exact opposite thought when I went out for a run last night. I got out of a dinner meeting (nonprofit related) around 9pm last night, and I was SO happy to see clear skies!!  When I got back home I went out for a run, and when I first stepped out there was just something nostalgic for me about being out in relative warmth at night! 

I also got out for a run this morning. (Gotta take advantage of the warm weather while it's around!) Speaking of which, I actually think I may have discovered something that may help with my race-related side stitches, which as you may or may not recall, I have gotten them in nearly every race I've done.  Today I did 5x 2:00 at a faster paced running (rest interval equal) and by the 4th one I had noticeable side stitches!  I was like whaaattt??????  I did not eat or drink ANYTHING before I went out for the run.  I am very much wondering if the cause is that I had too much food still sitting in my stomach from the night before, because I ate a ton last night.  Before all my races, I would always make sure I eat well the evening before, so this could make sense to me as for why I get the side stitches the next morning during the race...

Yes, I believe I know exactly what caused it. In May 2010 I banged my foot into a chair. Following that, I could not walk on said foot without pain. But then I discovered that if I were to walk with a limp, I could walk without feeling the pain.  So then I was walking with this limp for 2-3 months.  I did take a month off running, but since I could walk with this limp, I also decided to run with this limp as well, because it allowed me to run- instead of waiting for my foot to fully heal to run normally.  So, I was literally running with an altered gait for 1-2 months (I would have to go back and check for the exact period of time.)  I believe I got up to at least 30mpw running with this altered gait.  I truly believe it is because of this that it gradually shifted the position of my hips.

See, that is interesting to me. I am so afraid of running out of energy and/or water, that I think I overdo it.  I think for my next race I will try out a light meal the night before and see how that works out... I will be very nervous about that though!  Because I'll be thinking to myself I'm not filling myself up with enough energy!

Awe man!  Internet cooties!  I seem to have slid back a bit on my cold.  Take care of yourself before that race.

I have no experience with them, but I believe they are intended for forefoot runners or for faster, lighter runners who land mid-foot.

I was going to say that they don't have enough cushioning for a training shoe unless you are a forefoot person, but it looks like you DON'T want cushioning?  I like Dirk's advice to you on the Newtons.

As for alternatives, you can use any shoe brand that has a favorable fit for you.  Almost every shoe manufacturer now has shoes with minimal drop if that's what you want, or with minimal cushioning but a more normal drop if that's what you want.

For instance, in Brooks, you have a model like the Pure Cadence.

That's a great point.  I hadn't considered the meal from the night before.  I don't know how long full digestion takes for you, so work it from that angle and find out.  Consider the fact that different types of foods digest at different rates and target harder to digest foods.  And if you have a Lactose intolerance then it could just be the dairy in the dinner that is still with you in the morning.

Bhargav, I say give it a shot.  Your description of your effort level is not out of line as a once-a-week run.  As long as your legs feel sound then go ahead.  If they start reacting with pain after these runs, perhaps before any injury occurs you can back it down.

Your higher HR relative to your exertion level is either just part of your particular heart rate profile, or as you guessed, due to being new to running.  Over time your heart gets bigger and pumps more blood per beat, so it can and will slow down your HR and your zones will need to be recalculated.

Jonathan, great to hear from you.  Have you been able to go mtn biking yet since winter set in?  I'm fascinated by the idea of winter mtn biking (in the snow).

Sorry about your elbows.  Let them heal, however long that takes, and then adjust your technique as necessary to stop that!  I am fairly sure it's a technique problem but it would be really subtle...perhaps invisible.  My guess is that you are rotating inward with your rotator cuff as you pull (the general movement as when arm wrestling). 

When you resume pull-ups, and until you get that technique fixed, try neutral grip pull-ups instead.  This is where your arms are in front of you and hands are grabbing handles such that the palms of your hands are facing each other (or thumbs nearest your face).

Icing makes your elbow ache because it's icing the 'funny bone' nerve.  It's harmless, but can hurt like crap.  If you can tolerate the icing, by all means do it.  And consider using heat to the extent you can't use ice.

Jo,  Most of the time when people think we are crazy, it's with a sense of reverent awe.  Sort of the way I would say to a 100-mile ultra runner, "you're crazy!" with an expression of admiration.

Thanks, Jeff!  I had my gait analyzed by a running coach a couple years ago.  He said that I am a mid-foot striker.  He said I really didn't need to change much of anything.  (This was when I was wearing my favorite Mizunos.)  Maybe I'll check the new Mizunos and see if they changed back to the wider toe box.  Looks like I really need to investigate all of the Brooks models, too.

omg. I have no helpful suggestions, but sad to say, I know EXACTLY how you feel!!!  I feel my elbows are having a difficult time healing because I am constantly using them. Previously Dirk mentioned possibly try changing your position- whether it be seat height or angle which you type and/or use the mouse.  At this point, I never know if any of the things I do help or hurt it.

questions for the Junkies...  Does the gearing of bikes make it faster such as Tiagra, 105 or Ultegra etc?

What bike do you train with? State if it is a road bike or tri bike, whether it is 105, Ultegra or whatever and if it is named.

I train with a Fuji roadbike and it just has Tiagra gears and shifters.  name is Island Time cause it is so slow.

About a month before a tri I start riding my tri bike Cervelo and has 105 everything, name is Tallulah...remember the movie "Cool Running".