Fred Doucette's Half-Iron and Ironman Focused Group! -CLOSED! (Page 49)

Hi all - gone for a couple of days as we took the kids to Great Wold Lodge in Niagara Falls.  Fun times, but I think I gained a couple of pounds thanks to the buffet dinner we enjoyed.  Got to get your money's worth, right?

Anyhow, training for me has fallen off a bit lately and will continue to do so for the next couple of days I think.  But I guess we're all in power testing mode as I did my 20min test last night.  Happy to see I improved again, but it wasn't quite what I'd been hoping for.  Still 257 watts vs 226 watts when I did the first test 15 weeks ago, so almost a 14% improvement and I'm pretty happy.  Still need to do the 3min test and see where the CP nets out, but I should be close to 3.5watts/kg.  The goal this year is to get it between 3.7-3.9, and I've obviously got the easy watts under my belt - I think the next amount will be harder.

Joe/Fred - great jobs on both your tests, hoping for your numbers one day.  Based on any of the reading I'd done, most people seem to report anywhere from 5-15% drop in power indoors vs outdoors, so even though I have always relied on indoor testing I really think this Spring will have me find somewhere I can pound out 20min of pain and see how the numbers match up.  If I even find an extra 5% I'd be happy, but 10% I'd be over the moon.

Thanks everyone, appreciate the feedback.  Fred - I will hold you to that

On a different note for people experienced with power tests - did that seem like a well executed test?  Is the variability of my power over the 20 minutes bad, normal, good (both the increasing over the last half and all the spikes and vallys throughout)?  Thanks.

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Do you have wko+?

If you do create a new interval or intervals and compare first and second half NP of your 20' TT.

Mine last Friday first and second half were about 4.2% different which for me is a lot. To me it means I held back to much to start. I hadn't tested since September and hadn't done FTP intervals other than maybe 3-4x and longest one was 10' so really unsure of how test would go.

My goal is go up slightly or have my RPE go up and power stay close to the same. When I get to the end and the last 4' the clock seems to move backwards I know I gave it my all.

Your spikes and valleys are fine.

Do you always check your calibration or zero your torque before the meat of your ride and before testing?

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Absolutely...best tool to analysis power out there for me.

I've been using it since 2006. There are some free programs I know my coach likes such as Golden Cheetah. I have so many years in wko+ not really worth using another one. Last year I upgraded from version 2.2 to 3.0.

I believe they have a trial offer you can try and see how you like it. In scheme of training with power it is a good value.

The graphing tools are great. I tried Skiba's Raceday and didn't like the graphing and ability to create new intervals.

Coggan helped develop the program I believe so it lines up with the training and power book he wrote.

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I'm a number person and this program allows me to see my workouts in great detail.

I look at how I rode and if I executed my ride as outlined by my coach and if I see improvement over time

When doing more race prep work, I try to keep my riding even so my VI (variable index) is as close to 1.0 which means my NP/AP (normalized power/average power) were the same so not spiking my power

When I do intervals I see how even was my VI

I check my NP for intervals to see how I did compared to my zones
If I'm on the upper end of zone 4 when doing intervals it is a clue my FTP is up

TSS shows how much stress the ride is on you...100 is equal to an hour at FTP. So doing 2 hours at 50% of your FTP causes the same TSS or stress but in a vastly different way

Checking NP in doing Race Rehearsals helps me know what watts I can execute come race day

Overall I check my NP to see how it lines up to goal of ride

IF is intensity factor which shows % of FTP ride or interval is...so you can see if your 8' FTP intervals are at 1.0 for IF dead on compared to your FTP or less or more than your FTP;  watching this is good indicator if FTP is right as well

If you do a race like a sprint or oly or 40K TT and your IF is over 1 your FTP is mostly higher than you expect.

Graphs you can see how you rode..steady, spiking, or not

If I do the same intervals over different weeks, I can see how I did and if I improved

By training with power, I've learned how to execute to the best of abilities come race day.

For me executing well on race day, is usually one of my biggest goals, as I feel it is key to having me do the best (ie fastest) I can on race day with the fitness I have proven I have given my training.

No - Raceday, but here is the data in 5 min intervals:
Avg, xPower,
291.2, 284.9
296.92, 296.61
299.64, 299.93
324.54, 319.95

I always calibrate/zero before each ride.  

Good, calibrating/zero means your watts are right.

I suspect since you had a big jump in your 20' power since you did last time you under estimated how hard you could go to start and at abut 15' in you realized you had more and pushed power up a bit. 

When doing your 20' test how do you try to pace?

Well, I know they are precise, but not necessarily accurate though. I initially aimed 10 watts over my last test, that wad clearly low though.

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Way to stick it out Fred.

Like you said, we all have such days.  The strangest thing to me is that I often cannot predict how a ride will go beforehand.  I just have to get on and try it out.  Sometimes I feel pretty bad before a workout, and once I get going I feel really strong.  Other times, I feel pretty good, but just fade once I get started.  It's very difficult for me to predict in spite of having a fair bit of experience at this point. 

Perhaps a combination of riding at threshold watts early in the morning?  I know that for me, I always save the hardest workouts for the evening, because early in the morning I simply cannot handle the intensity.  I've learned over the past couple of years what my body is capable of at different times of the day, and while it's a bit frustrating I know that I need to limit the intensity a bit in the early mornings.

Kathy - I've seen this reasoning posted before, but wonder if it applies more to long course triathlon than short course.  Over the length of a 1/2 or full Iron I can understand wanting to keep the VI close to 1.0, but wonder if in short course, you can afford to burn some matches and let the wattage drift up and down more, especially on a hilly course.

Thoughts?

Olys I try to keep my VI down as well as I know it will help me run better.

Sprints feel like FTP effort so it is difficult for me to go over those watts for very long. You are right that sprints VI can be higher. Just think how you feel after doing VO2 max intervals for 2-5' would you then want to ride at FTP for 20 minutes? Not me.

Part of training with power helps you figure out what works for you. Some may run fine off the bike with higher VI in sprint or oly but I know my limitations.

I did a sprint 2 years ago, where my coach told me to ride as hard as I absolutely could. If my legs burned just stop pedaling for a few seconds and tap on them. He said I could run 5K on very fatigued legs but riding the bike hard was the goal for my training. I was surprised how the whole thing went down...highest power on any sprint and my normal high for intervals in the summer and the run was ok and in line with my training. I haven't done a sprint since but I'd try that pacing strategy again.

HIM/IM racing they say every percentage over 1.0 you are wasting that energy/effort. So VI of 1.07 would mean you wasted 7% of your effort for your IM ride.

I have seen folks with VIs over 1.25 for HIM that wasn't hilly....not well paced.

Nice to see everybody testing out.  I can seem to find the time and pull myself away from my training for a few days to recovery enough for a full test.  I never really did a lot of structured testing.  I do test myself but in my own way of just pushing myself.  Go’s to show how different we all are. 
 
I have to hand it to Fred.  He did that 20 min FTP test coming off one of his biggest week of training.   Great job!

I know some coaches test both in normal training week and well rested for FTP. They use normal training week FTP to set zones for most training. It makes sense in a way to know how you can perform when carrying normal level of fatigue vs. when you are fresh and well rested.

Nice Randy!

I should scold myself for being jealous...nice job Randy.