PLMsbr (JD) Group - FULL (Page 5)

Ok, the holidays are over and it's time to get back in the swing of things.  I neglected my training way too much the past two weeks and I ate way too much.  I think the total damage was about 4 pounds.  I paid the price this weekend; my long run was torturous and my long ride on the 'drainer' was incredibly difficult.

I'm way behind on my logs too...hope to remedy that tonight.

Bummer about the shoes, but don't change brand/style 2 weeks before your marathon! For the FL IM, I wasn't thrilled with my latest shoes; so I used the previous running shoes that I had replaced. They were still in good enough shape that the wear and tear was more than compensated for by having comfortable shoes that work with my feet.

I'm trying to get my stomach back to reality as well... you'd think that with enough working out you could eat what you want, but it just isn't the case

But don't go crazy losing the weight, especially in that last week. You need good solid nutrition to have you ready for the marathon.

Take this for what it's worth as my opinion, but I wouldn't put too much emphasis on the 1/2 mary in terms of tapering and actual race effort. That is prime training time for your half IM before you hit taper. Maybe even do a decent bike ride the day or two before the 1/2 IM; then run that at a little slower pace than you expect your 1/2 IM run pace to be... something like that. Then you could recover a couple days, train into the weekend with one more solid/long weekend - and taper time from there.

That's what the holidays are for Tim!

But it does stink that just a couple bad weeks can make things so tortuous when you get back into it. Doesn't seem fair...

True, so true....it never ceases to amaze me how quickly fitness gains are lost and how easily being lazy becomes a habit.

I've been pondering something lately and would like to get some input.  I've been reading quite a few threads lately about how to portion out training time.  Looking at my training plan I notice that I have my time pretty much divided evenly between the 3 sports; 1 hour 3x week swim, 30 minutes, 1 hour, and two hour rides every week, and 30 minutes, 1 hour, and 2 hour runs every week.  Would I be better off dropping a swim day and making it run or bike workout? 

Given that you are new to triathlon and still struggling with the swimming, I'd try to keep that going. You can certainly get by with 2x/week for doing sprints and Oly's; but swimming just takes so much more time and effort to get good at then the other two sports.

I'll give you the classic "that's not what i asked" answer; which is that I would try to increase the biking, maybe do that one more day a week (30 min to an hour). I don't think you want to run less than 3x/week; especially if you enjoy it and aren't having injury issues. One way to get in that extra bike ride is the classic "brick" workout; do a bike ride before one of the runs (would be good before the 30 min run).

How far are you getting on your long bike ride? If you end up doing an Olympic tri, I would try to do a few rides of 35-40 miles; so that the 25 comes pretty easy.

If there was absolutely no way to get in more bike without giving something up, I'm back to giving up one of the swim days. Proportionally, the bike ends up being the biggest chunk of the race, and it factors heavily into the 2nd biggest chunk - the run.

Doing some quick calcs on my training; looks like I'm running close to 2x the hours for bike vs swim and run. It's been a long time since I looked at the pre-determined training plans (I used them initially, and have just tweaked them over time to fit my particular situation). What kind of hours are some of you other folks putting in for the three sports?

I'm already doing 2 bricks per week.  Here's what my schedule looks like:

Monday:  Easy Swim

Tuesday: Brick - hard run (warm up 15 minutes, tempo 30 minutes, cool down 15 minutes) easy bike (30 minutes)

Wednesday: Hard swim (intervals)

Thursday: Brick - Hard bike (intervals 1 hour) easy run (30 minutes)

Friday: Swim drills

Saturday: Long run (2 hours)

Sunday: Long bike (2 hours) distance averages around 25-26 miles on the trainer.  I had not built up to two hour rides outside before I was forced indoors due to lack of winter riding clothing so I'm not sure what kind of distance I'd be covering on a 'real' 2 hour ride.

Maybe I could add a short ride after my Friday swim.

I've been starting with my total hours for the week and subtracting out 45 min for lower body weight work and whatever cross-training I've committed myself to (basketball and flag football leagues), then I take about half of what's left for the bike and split the rest between swimming and running.  So I'm also doing 2x the hours for the bike vs. the run and swim.  I'd like more running time, only because I like to run, but I've given some up to work on swimming.

I try to add more tri specific work in if I can handle it physically and mentally (and wife-ly) to make up for the 'lost' time playing basketball and football.  But I don't worry myself if I don't get it in.  

Will

Hey all...

Thanks for the welcomes and encouragement. I need to return my old library books and get a tri book for dummies lol. That or sit down and write all these words you guys use and find start making a "Shawna's tri dictionary book."

I have learned a lot...first, I need to talk to the bike professional downtown. I also am going to look at craiglist for a bike trainer. I also am due for new shoes. There is this running shoe specialist about 30 mins from me. My son goes there for his cross country shoes...and well, right now I have put too many miles on my shoes. SOOOO...all great advice.

 The Y has something called expresso bike training where I can go online and record things...I'm going to check into that. I did my elliptical today and I have to admit feeling a little negative when I watched all these runners kicking butt. I thought to myself 'who are you kidding?' I also lack support...I have the MOST supportive husband in all areas but this lol. So, I have to get my son to train with me because the competition calls for 2. He wanted to do it last year...so, we'll see...at least he has the running thing down. I need to start my 3 minute walk, 1 minute run, etc plan. I need to quit comparing too.

I took my a strength training class. I feel sorry for the woman I was talking to before hand. It's been a year since I have been there...and things have changed...I told her it was a pretty laid back class but, once class started...about 10 minutes into it..I realized it wasn't soooo laid back! The instructor has advanced and OMG! My muscles were burning like I was on fire. I really enjoyed that. I walked away from the elliptic and strength training feeling the burn/workout. I haven't felt that in a long time...about a year...I really think the curves was a mistake and inhibited me. 

Yucky part...they changed when I can swim. So, I have to find somewhere to burn time and come back to the Y and then be rushed to come home and be a taxi cab. UGH. The alternative times are at bad times... 5:30 (when dinner is being served) or 8pm (when I am putting the 7 year old to bed.) So, I have to do hour to burn/rush afterward. I did see a swimming trainer in there Friday and even though I am rowing not swimming...I think when I advance I am going to contact him. 

I used to have a fantastic instructor. She would bring you to the brink...She challenged...she was like my personal Gillian off biggest loser lol. She left. They replaced her with an instructor who ...well, the woman doesn't do her own training. She doesn't know what she's talking about, etc. It bothers me to educate myself the best I can and then hear a instructor say things that have been proven to be wrong. I probably sound horrible...but, it really bothers me. I once took a drink of water and she told me NO ONE should drink water during a work out. I have always been taught to take enough in to wet the mouth but, not a gulp etc. She even names muscles wrong. It's just weird. Oh, the worst...she was doing a class with us and she answered her cell and started talking on it...she would call out commands. This was her last year in a class. Now, they have a sign saying she's a personal trainer. I passed by a class she taught and she left, went to the bathroom and was calling commands from the toilet. I just don't get it. I miss the old instructor. She taught a class called bootcamp and well, it was fantastic. 

My plans are next week starting a run/walk and some rowing. I also am going to get a book on tri. So, I can learn more and get your lingo in here lol. Also, check into bikes (I have one but, it's not tri worthy), new shoes, trainer...oh and a partridge and a pear tree with two turtle doves and a water bottle. 

JD...they are actually 6 weeks apart. Still same advice??

Had a great workout today...swam 2200yds first (which I really prefer) then did 6 miles on the tm with some good intervals like you suggested...still trying to figure out the HRM, as far as finding the avg HR and Max HR......Tom

Shawna you cracked me up!  You don't need to buy a book....just ask us and we'll explain.  I think that's what these mentor groups are all about....learning from our mentor and each other.

Just remember to take any advice you get from me or anybody else with a grain of salt (or two). We all have different goals, interests, motivations, etc.; not to mention different theories and opinions. With that said, I think a short Friday ride would be great if you could fit it in. You could also consider playing around with a little longer bike ride on Tuesdays. You're doing more training than I did in my first year, already; btw. Don't see that you'll have any problems doing great in Sprint triathlons.

Shawna - I second what trinity said... absolutely ask any question you want here; especially if I (or anyone else) tosses around phrases that you are not familiar with. A tri dictionary would be pretty cool, and could be be pretty humorous (e.g. Brick: combining two or more of the three triathlon elements into one workout. Also, what you feel like when you are done).

Quick note on bike trainers - "fluid" trainers are generally considered to be better and feel more natural. Magnetic trainers are much cheaper, though - and if you can get one real cheap that might not be a bad way to get started. Don't get intimidated by people always saying you have to have the best (i.e. most expensive) of everything. In the end, it all boils down to "are you getting a good workout".

Speaking of intimidation, we ALL start somewhere. My first tri I came in in the bottom quarter of all participants, and it's been a long slow road of improvements since then. Look for how YOU improve compared to YOURSELF, nobody else. The main thing is that you are doing it at all, that already puts you in the top 10% or so. And it can sometimes be a little uncomfortable for the spouse/significant other. The person that they have known for so long, as well as the routine they had settled into; gets shaken up. That person is also starting to run with a new crowd (pun intended), have new interests, etc. In the end it's about your physical and mental health, though - and it is better for *everyone* when that improves.

Keep hanging in there and having that great "do what it takes" attitude, you'll be seeing some great results. And for heavens sake, stay away from that new instructor! Wow, don't drink water during a workout?!? The funny thing about a lot of exercise theories is that it usually ends up coming back to common sense. At one time (I am told), they discouraged marathoners from drinking much. Then they started telling people to drink even if they weren't thirsty until it sloshed around in their stomach... at least until people started getting sick and even dying. Lo and behold, it ended up coming back to drink reasonably as you do the exercise and as you feel thirsty. Wow, you mean are bodies and brain really are designed to work well together? Who'd have thunk it?

That does give you a little more room to work with. Depending on how important the 1/2 IM is to you (time-wise), I'd personally go with a mid-distance bike ride the day before - then run the 1/2 IM at a little less than full speed. The goal would be to turn that bike/run combination into some good training for the 1/2 IM, but make sure I didn't need more than 2-3 days of downtime before I could get back to training.

And I probably am repeating myself to much, but for all of us: we have to balance the different advice we get with our own personal goals, motivation, fitness, background, etc. For example, I'm doing Boston Marathon this year. A lot of coaches say that's a bad idea if you're doing an IM later in that year. But doing Boston is a huge deal for me... I've earned it and I want to go experience it. If in the end it means I could have gone 15-20 minutes faster in my IM (and how the heck could anybody measure that anyway?); then I'm fine with that. My wife and I are going to go have a great time in Boston for a few days, I'm going to run in the Boston Marathon and buy too much race memorabilia - and I won't regret it for a minute. Life's too short, and I'm not a professional athlete with a livelihood on the line.

Wow Baowulf - 100 mile drive to get in your swimming; that is some dedication there! That would fit in with the definition of HTFU

I usually go 300 to 400 miles on my shoes without issues; so I think you should be pretty safe with 150 miles. You'd know better than me when shoes start giving you trouble, though.

I don't think you are as run heavy if you look at it from a mileage standpoint. My peak weeks this year I think I'll be shooting for around 175+ miles on the bike (don't even like the way that sounds!) and 40+ miles running; which is just over a 4:1 ratio. Similar to the ratio in the IM itself, come to think of it. I won't do that every week, btw. I'll do a base phase of getting used to the mileage, then another phase where I drop back down some but higher intensity, then build that back up to a couple peak weeks right before taper. And I try to give myself a lighter week every 4th week or so, whenever possible tying it to a lesser race that I am doing.

JD...I'm figuring you meant to say that you would suggest I run the "Olympic Tri" at a little less than 1/2 speed? The HIM is more important to me than the earlier races. I want to do them for the training and the practice. I don't want to have to recover too long before I get back to my HIM training.

BTW...do you think it is unreasonable for me to plan on a full marathon (my first) in August? Again, the HIM is June..................Tom

Sorry, it's almost 1am and we have had a very busy night in the ER. I did mean to say "a little less than full speed".

I am still here...sore from the strength training but here lol. I am strength training again today. Today is a day where I am going all over in the car...husband gets back into town from work travel, I have to pick kids up froms school, and my best friend is getting back in town and I have been taking care of her psychotic dog (which is a good thing because I have to run her she's sooo hyper.) The hub coming home will help me at night if I should need to change training times. The part that is interesting is he told me last night that he feels he isn't giving his all and so he wants to kill himself at the gym (he watched biggest loser and is pumped I guess) I told him it would do no good to hurt himself because a show seems to do that with their contestants. It's a good thing he is working out though...hey, if I can get him in the gym that would be grand. He's great with the weight training...kind of his expertise and where I am the most bewildered. I really want to have my strength to a whole new level in order to endure all the training.

That's about it for updates. 

Tom,

ED nurse and working the night shift?  Probably 12 hour shifts, too...  You're nuts!  I'm an ED doc working primarily nights.  I'm moving to more of a standard work-any-shift schedule because I can't hack the regular nights and training.  How are you coping as a night shift athlete?

Will

When you start training...is it a must to take a break...if so how often? What I have heard is with strength training it should be done every other day. Yet, another source says to come in daily. Should a person never muscle train two days in a row?

 I did run/walk/run/walk like this website suggested. It was great. I also took another strength training class...and unfortunatley the instructor I said I didn't like...well she taught it. The weirder part is she said we should drink water...I think she took some training classes. She was pretty good this time. Some things were challenging but, most were okay...and she still is really out of stamina...I am thinking she went for some training specialties and is getting better. Last, I did swim. I know I will never swim like all of you...my swimming abilities are not competitive...lol. So, that was my day today. I just am wondering if I should take breaks in between...I was originally told 2 years ago to take one day a week off. Now some say every other...so your muscles can recooperate...so you bring them to a burn, then heal, then burn, etc every other day. Cardio should be done every day (running)...but last another person said... work out, run, strength, etc as much as you can...especially when you are trying to train. I would like to know what tri people say.

Wow, sorry - really messed that up; must have been a little brain dead!   That sentence was supposed to refer to the Half Marathon, not the 1/2 IM. So, I was saying that you could do a bike ride the day before the half marathon, and then run the half marathon at a little less than full speed. That combo would be a nice training weekend for your 1/2 IM race. For the 1/2 IM race, you should absolutely kick butt and take names Just be careful not to go too crazy on the bike and end up bonking on the run. That is number one mistake of people doing 1/2 and Full IM races that I've seen.

Now, if I can keep my wits about me to answer the marathon question...  The Boise 70.3 is mid-June. You might be able to start running a little after a few days, but I'd say your next long run is probably 2 weeks from the race; so end of June. When is the August marathon, beginning or end? At best, you are talking another month of good running before tapering for the marathon, which is very aggressive for moving from half mary to full mary. You might be able to do it, but it won't be fun. Full marathon requires some good mileage over time in order to complete it well and not be in pain for the next couple weeks. You could overtrain the run before the 1/2 IM, but that would compromise the half IM training. I do like building to marathon after a half IM, but I would put more time between them to move from 13 mile runs to 20+ mile runs.