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2009-07-17 3:38 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
thanks for the cliff notes
now I wish they would come out with like a weekly shopping list and menu besides just the receipes

that is what mens health does and pretty sweet


2009-07-17 3:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
thanks for the example day,
do you know about how much you spend per week or month on food?
2009-07-17 8:33 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
cxk9758 - 2009-07-17 3:42 PM thanks for the example day, do you know about how much you spend per week or month on food?


Not sure.  My wife does the grocery shopping.  However, I don't think we spend any more or any less than we did before going paleo.  We drink a lot less milk.  I was the big milk drinker.  We probably went through 2 gallons a week.  Now she drinks about 1/2 gallon a week. 
2009-07-19 1:13 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
Any good salad dressing ideas acceptable beyond flax oil based?
The "ranch" from the book is a little scary! 
2009-07-20 12:20 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review

brando12 - 2009-07-19 1:13 PM Any good salad dressing ideas acceptable beyond flax oil based?
The "ranch" from the book is a little scary! 

I use olive oil and lemon juice.  It's just enough flavor!

2009-07-20 12:27 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review

Has anybody had success gaining weight on this diet? 

I've been almost 100% paleo for the past 6-7 weeks and am having a hard time keeping my weight up.  I'm a skinny guy to start with and don't really want to lose weight.  I actually wouldn't mind putting on a few pounds, but struggle to get in enough calories w/ the paleo plan. 



2009-07-20 9:03 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
I've found that my weight decreased for a period of time then stabilized at what I would assume is 'ideal' for the amount of training I do.  I'm 5'7" and weigh ~138.  I dropped about 10 pounds and now stay between 135 and 140. 
2009-07-21 7:11 AM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
brando12 - 2009-07-19 2:13 PM Any good salad dressing ideas acceptable beyond flax oil based?
The "ranch" from the book is a little scary! 


+1 on olive oil and lemon juice

Also, you can make avocado based dressings that are delicious and usually made with lime or lemon juice. 

Finally, another trick I use is pesto.  It's really just a paste with herbs, nuts and olive oil and does not need to have cheese in it at all.  Without the cheese it's great for Paleo and lasts longer than traditional pesto as well.  You can even freeze it for when herbs aren't as readily available.  One of my favs is pistachios, parsley, lemon zest and olive oil but you can really substitute any herbs and any nuts.  Walnut and arugula is great as well.  I make a batch most Saturdays after going to the green market and use it for most of the week on salads, grilled chicken and fish.  If you have a blender, it takes no time at all.
2009-07-21 3:26 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
I wrote a while back that I was going to give Paleo a shot and write how it worked out for me.  So.... it's been a mixed bag.  At first, I noticed how much 'cleaner' I felt.  My energy levels were significantly lower, particularly at work, where I generally much on snacks (chips and hummus, pretzels, etc.) all day.  I didn't make it through a consistent few weeks, so it may very well have worked it's way out for me.

This all said, I think a few weeks of trying to stick to Paleo has helped me get to a happy medium.  I've been eating a lot more fruit, veggies and lean meats.  Waking up to 8 ounces of lean steak and a banana has been amazing.  Since I've been allowing myself grains also, though, I feel a lot better overall.  Also, I haven't been eating as many grains as before.

It's worth noting that I'm not concerned with losing weight.  I'm just looking to be healthy and have a lot of energy.

Best of luck to those who are trying out the diet.
2009-07-21 10:32 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
cxk9758 - 2009-07-17 1:42 PM thanks for the example day, do you know about how much you spend per week or month on food?


I would love to share a little story with my fellow BTers.  This story is about a 22yr old guy who decided 3 weeks ago to go from the couch to not only finishing his first sprint but being mildly competetive.  This guy did his research and read Paleo diet for Athletes, and after 2 1/2 weeks I feel great couldn't feel any better actually, tons of energy better training than anytime before in my life (wrestled and played a number of other sports since age 5, including college football).  After only 2 1/2 weeks my training is reaching levels I know I could not have reached without THIS diet.  To anyone whom is on the fence or feeling iffy I say go for it, go cold turkey as I did and you will feel and experience the same overwhelming benefits I am currently feeling.

As to how much I spend on average a week probably between $70-$100, all depending on which foods you decide to go with, which recipes you choose, and how you decide to deliver the nutrients into your system and power the engine.  Thanks OP for introducing me to this life altering diet.
2009-07-22 3:16 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
Here's a tidbit that might scare some people away from the Paleo diet....peanuts and peanut butter are not part of the paleo diet.  Peanuts are actually legumes; not nuts.  Legumes are not on the Paleo diet.  Soy is another legume; so soy beans, soy milk, etc. are not part of the diet. 

I used to eat a lot of peanut butter.  But gave it up.  Now I eat almond butter.  I love almond butter.


2009-07-22 3:19 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
I have not had peanut butter in a week and I'm missing it terribly.  I'm looking forward to getting to the store to buy some almond butter.
2009-07-22 3:29 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
Wow - excellent thread!  It took me awhile to read/scan it all.  Thank those of you who posted the cliff notes and the sample day's food.

This is VERY similiar to my way of eating except that I currently eat less fruit.  I'm building up my fitness level and working towards a sprint triathlon and had concerns about diet and nutrition.  I think I just need to up the fruits.

I love to read diet books and compare, so I'm sure I'll want this one too!!!

Edited by maria40nc 2009-07-22 3:36 PM
2009-07-22 4:31 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
Sluggo312 - 2009-07-16 10:39 AM I'm considering the idea of giving this a try and I have a question.  Would Larabars be included in acceptable foods.  I hope so, they have been a good snack for me. 

The ingredients are: Dates, Walnuts, Almonds, Raisins, Cashews, and Cinnamon...this is for the particular flavor that I'm holding right now but all flavors have similar ingredients.  

Also, larabars are: unprocessed, raw, have no added sugar, dairy free, gluten free, and soy free.

As per the package, this seems like it would be a perfect snack for the paleo diet but I'm guess the cavemen never had to open a package. 


The Larabar sounds like a good paleo snack.  I'll have to check it out. 
2009-07-23 8:04 AM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
Raisins and other dried fruits are earmarked as good for Stage 4 recovery because of their high glycemic load combined with alkaline-enhancing quality, so seems such a bar would be good during that stage especially. 
2009-07-23 8:34 AM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
Thanks for the responses.  I've been eating them but somewhat sparingly.  I'm settling into the paleo thing.  During the week it's not terribly difficult.  Weekends are tough because we socialize a lot on weekends.  Going to have to figure out the weekends.


2009-07-23 10:28 AM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
"I wrote a while back that I was going to give Paleo a shot and write how it worked out for me.  So.... it's been a mixed bag.  At first, I noticed how much 'cleaner' I felt.  My energy levels were significantly lower, particularly at work, where I generally much on snacks (chips and hummus, pretzels, etc.) all day.  I didn't make it through a consistent few weeks, so it may very well have worked it's way out for me.

This all said, I think a few weeks of trying to stick to Paleo has helped me get to a happy medium.  I've been eating a lot more fruit, veggies and lean meats.  Waking up to 8 ounces of lean steak and a banana has been amazing.  Since I've been allowing myself grains also, though, I feel a lot better overall.  Also, I haven't been eating as many grains as before.

It's worth noting that I'm not concerned with losing weight.  I'm just looking to be healthy and have a lot of energy.

Best of luck to those who are trying out the diet."

x2 - I eat somewhere in the middle. I tried cold turkey paleo for about a month and I just did not have the energy I had when I ate other foods, yougurt, milk, limited whole grains, etc. I would not discourage anyone from giving it a chance but it was just not for me.

Edited by ddel65 2009-07-23 10:29 AM
2009-07-23 11:56 AM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
While this all looks very interesting... it doesn't seem very condusive for a vegetarian. Not sure I could give up breads all together. A lot of what I eat are breads/grains.

Not to mention, I will NOT give up cheese.



Edited by KSH 2009-07-23 11:57 AM
2009-07-23 12:33 PM
in reply to: #2089847

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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
I don't have the book yet (it's in the mail), but from reading the cliff notes and all of your posts, it seems like the whole eating carbs before, during, and after a workout thing is geared towards longer exercises.  I like to go to the gym and lift weights first thing in the morning and I am also training for a sprint tri in the evening.  What do the authors suggest about these shorter, about 45-60 minutes, strength training and the shorter, 20-90 minute, endurance workouts?
2009-07-23 5:40 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review

THE PALEO DIET
The basic premise of Dr. Cordain’s research on paleolithic nutrition is that certain foods are optimal for humans and others are nonoptimal. The optimal foods are those that we have been eating for most of our time on Earth—more than 4 million years. Only in the last 10,000 years, a mere blink of the eye relative to our species’ existence, have we been eating nonoptimal foods. Unfortunately, these foods
comprise the bulk of what western society eats today and include such foods as grains, dairy and legumes. Given that our bodies have not changed, we are simply not welladapted to these nonoptimal
foods and they moderate health and peak performance.


On the other hand, we have been eating optimal foods – vegetables, fruits, and lean
animal protein – for hundreds of thousands of years and we are fully adapted to
them. Science tells us that these foods also best meet our nutritional needs. Eat
these and you will thrive. Avoid or strictly limit them and your health and performance
will be compromised.


PALEO FOR ATHLETES
Serious athletes, however, when it comes to immediately before, during, and directly
after workouts, need to bend the rules of the Paleo Diet a bit since we're placing
demands on the body that were not normal for our Stone Age ancestors. Hour after
hour of sustained high energy output and the need for quick recovery are the serious
athlete’s unique demands. This requires some latitude to use nonoptimal
foods on a limited basis. The exceptions may best be described by explaining the athlete’s 5
stages of daily eating relative to exercise.


Stage I: Eating Before Exercise
In brief, we recommend that athletes eat low to moderate glycemic index
carbohydrates at least two hours prior to a hard or long workout or race. There may
also be some fat and protein in this meal. All foods should be low in fiber. Take in 200
to 300 calories for every hour remaining until exercise begins. If eating two hours
prior is not possible, then take in 200 or so calories 10 minutes before the workout or
race begins.


Stage II: Eating During Exercise
During long or hard workouts and races you will need to take in high glycemic index
carbohydrates mostly in the form of fluids. Sports drinks are fine for this. Find one
that you like the taste of and will drink willingly. Realize that events lasting less than
about an hour (including warmup) don’t require any carbohydrate. Water will suffice
for these. A starting point for deciding how much to take in is 200 to 400 calories per
hour modified according to body size, experience and the nature of the exercise
(longer events require more calories than short).


Stage III: Eating Immediately After
In the first 30 minutes postworkout (but only after long and/or highly intense
exercise
) and postrace use a recovery drink that contains both carbohydrate and
protein in a 45:1 ratio. You can buy a commercial product such as Ultrafit
Recovery™ (www.ultrafit.com) for this. Or you can make your own by blending 16
ounces of fruit juice with a banana, 3 to 5 tablespoons of glucose (such as CarboPro)
depending on body size, about 3 tablespoons of protein powder, especially from
egg or whey sources and two pinches of salt. This 30minute window is critical for
recovery. It should be your highest priority after a hard workout or race.


Stage IV: Eating for Extended Recovery
For the next few hours (as long as the preceding challenging exercise lasted)
continue to focus your diet on carbohydrates, especially moderate to high glycemic
load carbohydrates along with protein at a 45:1 carbprotein ratio. Now is the time to
eat nonoptimal foods such as pasta, bread, bagels, rice, corn and other foods rich in
glucose as they contribute to the necessary carbohydrate recovery process. Perhaps
the perfect Stage IV foods are raisins, potatoes, sweet potatoes and yams.


Stage V: Eating for LongTerm
Recovery For the remainder of your day, or until your next Stage I, return to eating a Paleo Diet
by focusing on optimal foods. For more information on the Paleo Diet go to
www.thepaleodiet.com or read The Paleo Diet by Loren Cordain, Ph.D.


HOW MUCH PROTEIN, CARB AND FAT SHOULD I EAT?
The macronutrient requirement changes with the demands of the training season and
so should be periodized along with training. We recommend that athletes maintain a
rather consistent protein intake year round. As a percentage of total calories this will
typically be in the range of 20-25% for athletes. This is on the low end of what our
Stone Age ancestors ate due to the athlete’s increased intake of carbohydrate in
Stages I to IV which dilutes protein as a percentage of daily calories.


On the other hand, periodization of diet produces significant and opposing swings in
the athlete’s fat and carbohydrate intake as the training seasons change. During the
base (general preparation) period the diet shifts toward an increased intake of fat
while carbohydrate intake decreases. At this time in the season when a purpose of
training is to promote the body’s use of fat for fuel, more healthy fat is consumed—in
the range of 30% of total calories—with carbohydrate intake at around 50%. During
the build and peak (specific preparation) periods the intensity of training increases
placing greater demands on the body for carbohydrate to fuel exercise. At this latter
time of the season Stages III and IV become increasingly critical to the athlete’s
recovery. Carbohydrate intake increases accordingly to around 60% of total calories
with fat intake dropping to around 20%.


During times of the year when training is greatly reduced (peaking/tapering and
transition periods) the athlete must limit caloric intake to prevent unwanted weight
gain.


WHY IS THE PALEO DIET BENEFICIAL?
Health and fitness are not synonymous. Unfortunately, many athletes are fit but
unhealthy. Frequent illness, injury and overtraining reduce performance potential.
The Paleo Diet for Athletes significantly improves health long term. Compared with
the commonly accepted athlete’s diet, the Paleo Diet:
? Increases intake of branched chain amino acids (BCAA). Benefits muscle
development and anabolic function. Also counteracts immunosuppression common
in endurance athletes following extensive exercise.
? Decreases omega-6: omega-3 ratio. Reduces tissue inflammations common to
athletes while promoting healing. This may include asthmatic conditions common in
athletes.
? Lowers body acidity. Reduces the catabolic effect of acidosis on bone and muscle
while stimulating muscle protein synthesis. This is increasingly important with
aging.
? Is high in trace nutrients. Vitamins and minerals are necessary for optimal health
and longterm recovery from exercise. The most nutrientdense foods are
vegetables and seafood. On average, vegetables have nearly twice the nutrient
density of grains.


EXCERPT FROM THE PALEO DIET FOR ATHLETES
Training for endurance sports such as running, cycling, triathlon, rowing, swimming,
and crosscountry skiing places great demands on the body, and the athlete is in
some stage of recovery almost continuously during periods of heavy training. The
keys to optimum recovery are sleep and diet. Even though we recommend that
everyone eat a diet similar to what our Stone Age ancestors ate, we realize that
nutritional concessions must be made for the athlete who is training at a high volume
in the range of 10 to 35 or more hours per week of rigorous exercise. Rapid recovery
is the biggest issue facing such an athlete. While it’s not impossible to recover from
such training loads on a strict Paleo Diet, it is somewhat more difficult to recover
quickly. By modifying the diet before, during, and immediately following challenging
workouts, the Paleo Diet provides two benefits sought by all athletes: quick recovery
for the next workout, and superior health for the rest of your life.

2009-07-23 5:42 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review

blktip33 - 2009-07-23 10:33 AM I don't have the book yet (it's in the mail), but from reading the cliff notes and all of your posts, it seems like the whole eating carbs before, during, and after a workout thing is geared towards longer exercises.  I like to go to the gym and lift weights first thing in the morning and I am also training for a sprint tri in the evening.  What do the authors suggest about these shorter, about 45-60 minutes, strength training and the shorter, 20-90 minute, endurance workouts?

 

Just posted the Cliff notes version. I added the bolded portion for emphasis. If you're workouts are longer then 90 minutes and or INTENSE then you would follow what the post workout stage recomends. Other wise, I'd assume that you would just stick with paleo foods since the excersise wasn't long or intense enough to deplete glycogen stores and require the consumption of non paleo foods for recovery.



2009-07-27 11:51 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
Sorry if this question has been asked before or answered already by what you've posted, but is quinoa allowed at any stage during the diet?
2009-07-28 10:31 AM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
CORocks,Congrats on the health progress!!! I would like to comment about your statement that this is "controversial and fringe nutrition"......as a student of nutrition, I don't agree! ;~) The reason is.... that historically homo sapiens have eaten in a variety of ways, none of which involved boxes and chemicals. Not at least until the last 100 years. Genetically speaking, we are about 10,000 years old give or take a few 1,000 for region adaptations. Many of us do in fact need higher protein and fat %, where as some populations need higher carbohydrate %. I believe that our bodies will tell us by the level of health, wellness, and body composition. Anyway, there are some credible researchers that are working on this angle, not just one type of eating..... but I think that the people who tend to try this type of eating style likely have not done well by limiting fat and eating low calorie, and so by the nature of their genetic composition, when the try a higher protein/fat style of eating see good results. We only know a fraction about food and nutrients so far... GOOD EATS!

Edited by energy7OMgirl 2009-07-28 10:34 AM
2009-07-28 11:48 AM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
energy7OMgirl - 2009-07-28 10:31 AM CORocks,Congrats on the health progress!!! I would like to comment about your statement that this is "controversial and fringe nutrition"......as a student of nutrition, I don't agree! ;~) The reason is.... that historically homo sapiens have eaten in a variety of ways, none of which involved boxes and chemicals. Not at least until the last 100 years. Genetically speaking, we are about 10,000 years old give or take a few 1,000 for region adaptations. Many of us do in fact need higher protein and fat %, where as some populations need higher carbohydrate %. I believe that our bodies will tell us by the level of health, wellness, and body composition. Anyway, there are some credible researchers that are working on this angle, not just one type of eating..... but I think that the people who tend to try this type of eating style likely have not done well by limiting fat and eating low calorie, and so by the nature of their genetic composition, when the try a higher protein/fat style of eating see good results. We only know a fraction about food and nutrients so far... GOOD EATS!


So essentially what you're saying is that we don't know anything, people are all different, and we should eat whatever makes us feel good.

I realize this is shocking, but I could not disagree more.
2009-07-28 1:41 PM
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Subject: RE: Paleo Diet for Athletes - review
What is said is: "I believe that our bodies will tell us by the level of health, wellness, and body composition. Anyway, there are some credible researchers that are working on this angle, not just one type of eating....."All one has to do it to look at the population and the lifestyle diseases that are rampant. Ornish has great success in treating heart disease with high carbs, low fat- this has been shown. People with diabetes do best on a higher protein, low carb diet. Maybe- just maybe there might be something to this research! I am curious to know if these people ate this way before disease, would they still have disease? Granted, there are many variables, but this is why we inquire.I am willing to keep an open mind and to continue to study, I make no claims to know all. If we had all the answers, then we would stop the studies & inquiry....and the World would be disease free and happy. Anyway, dialogue is good--differing opinions are OK. ps.... I'm not shocked at all. ;~)CHEERS!

Edited by energy7OMgirl 2009-07-28 1:53 PM
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