robin314159's Group - CLOSED (Page 5)

OK - Brian, that sounds like a good topic to start on.

How about we start each new topic on a Weds, and that gives everyone the weekend to think about the topic?

Topic 1: How to stretch, warm-up, and prevent injury/pulling muscles. Post your thoughts & research.

This is a good way to start since everyone needs to know this for the rest of their training, and since we need to keep Brian healthy so he can keep training!

And I could stand to research this myself -- I've learned how to manage injury prevention for myself, but not sure what works for me would work for someone else.

Next week - Stijn, we can start on how to set sub-goals & milestones en route to bigger goals.

Amy - pacing with swimming will often be a difference of 10 seconds per 50 between fast and slow... But that is a huge difference in the water!

True, many triathletes are not swimmers. Many people attempt to get through the swim as efficiently & smoothly as possible, so they'll still have a lot of energy when they get to the bike. It is very possible to simply glide through your entire swim.

Sometimes gliding will leave you at the back of the pack. Also, the difference in finishing times on a sprint race are within minutes (if not seconds) of each other. So the 2nd goal might be to get through the swim as quickly -- yet still efficiently -- as possible. Ultimately a lot of people racing in sprints will want to do the entire swim at their Fast pace (not too far below lactate threshold), and still have plenty of energy for the bike. (You never want to just throw ALL your energy into the swim, right? But you increase how long you can swim at a fast pace through practice.)

If you find your fast swim pace really isn't faster than your slow pace at all, then that could be a matter of efficiency. The fastest you can move your arms may be losing power / efficiency -- or your body position may be deteriorating as you speed up. So there are all kidns of things you can work on to speed up your FAST pace.

OK, i'll stop now before i write a book!



Edited by robin314159 2011-01-19 8:17 PM

Not sure why. I might actually buy that book. ;o)

bleg today is my rest day. And I really feel like running..... snif

I briefly brought up our topic with my physical therapist today (http://www.fatmantoironman.com/).

His very quick 2 cents: avoid stretching but you do need to do movement prep -- going through a variety of ranges of motion to prepare for the workout. He suggested that someone who routinely pulls a muscle probably has scar tissue that has built up over the muscle tear, and could benefit from some very deep massage to break up some of that scar tissue. (Does the scar tissue lead to re-injury?)

I'll be adding another 2 cents probably on Sunday.

PS - Anyone have cool weekend plans?

We have some nice sunny 70*F weather here, so I think I"ll find a way to get into the mountains. Yay!

got talked into riding my dirtbike tonight, so that is 2 days of nothing. I am going to make up for it this weekend. Swim and bike both days, and catch a little football. 

Well today was 12 below zero so not much excitement here. Did do a quick outside sprint to the fire hall at 6 am for a call. Other than that plan a 30 min ride on the trainer tomorrow.Kv

Hi guys, just checking in...hope everyone had a great weekend.

Joined a gym this weekend. Guess I will be getting more cardio in the conventional way, not my favorite thing to do, but it will burn some calories.

Re: Warmups - I don't do a very good job with warmups and I'm sure I've suffered some bad workouts because of it. I always thought you should stretch before a warmup, but I've learned that the best thing to do is NOT stretch on "cold" muscles, but to do general dynamic warmup.

Have a great week friends!

Hi all,

Good news! Some results from 3 weeks of eating Paleo food. While I'm only down about 2-3 lbs at any given time, I've lost 1.5 inches on my waist and 1.5 inches on my hips!! Whoooop!

I was getting worried that since I wasn't seeing the scale moving much that my diet wasn't working. But it seems it is. I can lift more, and apparently I *am* slimmer. Yay!!

Hope everyone had a good weekend. I will still get some research to you guys on warm up. Just running a bit behind this weekend.

Sharon -- does Crossfit Endurance appeal to you at all? Could maybe spice up some elliptical workouts...

rb.

Hey Slimpy,

That is quite an impressive result on the diet. Good extra thing to know is that Slimpie is a dutch nickname for smart person. So that is a bonus I guess. Getting smarter with the inch ;o).

@ KVenier: I would post some things I've learned in my first classes of swimming. Here it goes:
- Learn to relax. For some weird reasons human tend not to believe they will float when lying still in the water. Do not spill energy by thinking otherwise
- Get a proper breathing rythm. Although most people will inhale every 4 to 6 strokes I'm being thought to inhale every other stroke. This will be lengthed once I'm comfortable breathing.
- Balance your body in the water: My legs felt I bit like they were plunching to the bottom of the pool compaired to the rest of teh body. Two ways to alter this are: Try and push your head down in the water and/or arch your back. This will elevate the legs. In proper balance you will be splashing a bit on the surface when kicking with your legs.
- Timing of the stroke. In contrast to what I thought the time you start with you next stroke is not when the other stroke is half way. Meaning when you start you stroke with the left arm, your right arm will not start untill the stroke of your left is almost finished. Drills I got to lengthen the change my timing were: 1. Take a kickboard a hold the edge with both hands while having both arms strenged before you in the water. Start with a stroke with one arm. Only start with your 2nd stroke (with the other arm) once you grapped the board back again with both hands. 2. Get out of the water in front of a wall. Stretch both arms so that your fingertips will touch the wall. Start simulating strokes. Just before you finish one stroke start with the other arm. (Ie like just before your fingertips touches the wall again).
- Lengthen the stroke: I tended to raise my arm back out of the water once my arm got around my waist. A drill given to my was to touch the inside of my knee on every stroke.

I hope this will be of value for you and others. finishing of with my main tip: Get lessons on swimming. The above is what I've been thought in just 2 classes of 2 hours. Leaving me sad to hear my coach is of on a holiday for the next two weeks. *snif*

@ this weeks topic: Warming up

In my research I ran into a great website called: "Prevent injuries" One bad thing about it, it is in Dutch.... It has quite some information about how to prevent injuires in various of sports inlcuding: running, biking and fitness. Unfortunately it does not cover swimming (But I will search for that later). As this site is so great I will try and translate as much as possible, starting with running:

Content on the site:
Running
- Lifestyle
  * Nutricion
  * Hydration
  * Alcohol
  * Smoking
  * (Over)Weight
  * During an event
- Equipment
  * Shoes
  * Clothes
- Trianing
  * Warming up and cooling down
  * Muscle strenghtning excersizes
  * Training increase
  * Running technique
  * Over training
- Weather
  * During hot weather
  * During fall and winter
  * Smog
- Sport medical
  * Injuries
  * Sport medical research

I will start with the warm up and cooling down. But feel free to request translations of other parts as this site has confirmed that injury prevention is integral to all parts of the way of running.

Warming-Up and Cooling-Down general:
Muscles, tendons and blood circulation will experience a cold start just as an engine in a car. Putting the pedal to the metal at the start is like requesting injuries. As such start a workout by warming up the muscles. This contains an easy 5 to 10 minute jog followed by dynamic excersizes and acceleration runs.

Across from the warm up is the cooling down. At the end of the workout it is important to jog/walk it out for about 5 minutes. This will give your body a change to get to rest and dispose the waste in the muscles. A lukewarm shower and or massage of the muscle can support the cooling down.

Stretching
Recent research did not confirm that stretching will help to prevent injuries. However this has been made a part of a warming up and cool down. Reasons are: To increase flexibility, have an idea were the muscles are at. when implementing stretching in the warm up/ cool down. The advised order is: Jog before you stretch. Both during warming up and cooling down. Important rules for stretching:
- Get in proper position
- Increase the tension of the muscle until you will feel a slight tension on the targeted muscle, tendon
- Hold this position 5 to 10 seconds
- Stretching should never hurt. If it does quit the excersize immediately
- excersizes can be repeated up to 3 times

Below excersizes are specific for the legs as these are mostly stretched by runners. I can look up other stretching excersizes as well.

Shallow calf muscles
Get a fulcrum
Make a step forward with the right leg.
Leave your left leg strained with to foot flat on the floor pointing forward.
Move your hips forward till you feel the tension in the calf



Deep Calf Muscles:
Make a small step forward with the rigth leg
Leave the left foot flat on the floor pointing forward
slowly bent the knees without raising the heel of the left foot.
feel the tension built in the lower part of the calf.



Muscles inner thigh:
Spread your legs with feet pointing forward
Put you weigth to your right side.
At the same time bend your right knee and leave the left leg on the same place
Leave the upper body straight.
Feel the tension on the inside of the left tigh



Muscles outer thigh:
Stand on your left foot with the right foot crossed behind aslant
Raise right arm over the head.
Bent torso and right arm to the left



Muscles front side thigh:
Stand upright
Grap the right ankle with the right had.
Bend the left leg slightly (ensure it is not locked)
Strentch the hip without arching the back
ensure the right knee points downwards end you remain upright.
Use the right arm to grab something for balance if needed



Muscles backside thigh:
Stand upright and put your right leg on a raise object (bench, fench, bar)
grap the lower part of the right leg with both hands
look up wards and keep your lower back straight



Muscles out -and backside thigh:
Stand up right and cross your left foot in front of right foot aslant
stretch your arms and reach for your toes by bending the torso. You can vary this excersize by moving your finger tips to the left side of your right foot and/or to the right side of your left foot.


As stated before feel free to ask for other strechting excersize as I'm very willing to look them up for you.

Dynamic excersizes
After stretching it's good to do some dynamic excersizes in sets of 15 to 20 repetitions. examples of these excersizes are:
- Start stretch out standing on the toes and trying to be as long as possible then drop your arms while bending the torso
- start in straddle position with straitghed legs. Alternate touching your right foot with the left hand by touching the left foot with the right hand
- Make lunges alternating with left and right leg leaving the other leg on the ground.
- Make small jumps with both legs. Jump to the front and the back as well as to the sides
- From a straddle postion make wide turns to both sides with your pelvis.

Next the part of the site that covers biking. content available:
- Lifestyle
  * Nutricion
  * Hydration
  * Alcohol
  * Smoking
  * Body weight
  * Doping
  * Conduct
- Sport gear:
  * Settings of the bike
  * Clothing
  * Helmet
- Training:
  * Warming-Up
  * Forms of training
  * Cooling-Down
- Weather:
  * Cold weather hypotermia
  * Warm weather and heath stroke
- Driving techniques
  * Prevent crashing
  * Pedaling techniques
  * Balance
  * Relaxed biking
  * Braking
  * climbing
  * Obstacles
- Sport medical
  * Sport medical research
  * injuries

Biking Warming up:
A good warm up will prepair your body for the effort it is about to make during a race or workout. A solid warm up will not only increase you performance but will also prevent you fatigue and muscle soreness.

A warming up will have a general part and a specific part for the upcoming work out/ race.
The general part will take you (depending on the weather) about 10 to 15 minutes. (The colder the weather the longer the warm up. It contains an easy ride with both hands on the steering wheel without getting out of breath. The purpose is to increase the level of your hart, lungs, muscles and blood circulation.
The specific part will focus on the musclegroups and energy systems that will be stressed the most during that workout or race. It increases the muscle tension preparing it for the efforts it is about to deliver.

Example for intense endurance:
10 minutes of low intense biking in low gear. Hart rate below 70% of capacity
during 5 minutes slowing accelerate in a high gear. At the end of these 5 minutes you should be at anaerobe treshold

Example for intense interval:
10 minutes of low intense biking in low gear. Hart rate below 70% of capacity
5 minutes of low intense biking in high gear. sprint 2 times for about 150 yards during this using a slightly higher gear
accelerate during to minutes. By the end you should be on maximum speed

Example for sprint:
10 minutes of low intense biking in low gear. Hart rate below 70% of capacity
5 minutes of low intense biking in high gear. sprint 2 times for about 200 yards during this using a slightly higher gear

Biking cooling down:
The cooling down is the opposite of the warm up. It's goal is to bring the body back into rest. By not quiting immediatly you allow the muscles to dispose the waste. As such you prevent tension in the muscles, general stiffnes and fatigue.

The cooling down consists of two parts:
1. A relaxing bike ride of about 10 minutes in a low gear ensuring hartrate does not exceed 65% of your maximum.
2. A stretch of the main muscle groups: Calfs, Thighs, Buttocks and back.

General instructions for stretching:
- Increase the tension slowly to it's limit
- hold positions for 10 to 15 seconds
- After stretch slowly relax
- Perform excersizes for both sides
- Do not force. Stretching is not supposed to hurt
- Shake the muscles between excersizes
- Take your time

Some specific examples for stretching:

Calfs:
With 1 feet locked to the pedal and the other on the ground. Press the locked heel downwards with a streched leg while seated in the saddle.



Tibia:
Stand on your toes alongside your bike. This stretch excersize is easier performed with regular schoes or on bare feet. Biking schoes tend to be to stiff



Front side thigh:
Leave one foot on the ground. Pick up the ankle of the other foot. Keep the leg below your body ensuring you do not move the leg side ways. Increase the tension by turning over the pelvis.



Triceps:
Bent one arm over your head as you would want to scratch your back. Place the other hand on the elbow. Push the elbow downwards (towards the back) to increase the tension.



Lower back:
Arch you back and try to turn over the pelvis



That sums it up for know. Please let me know if you want me to share other parts of this site with you.

For the swimmin I went and look on other sites. It's where I found this text:

Stijn, thanks for the wealth of information!

Robin, total "duh" moment for me....I was so tunnel visioned with the recent gym cardio equipment that I completely forgot that I could do CFE intervals on the treadmill and even elliptical! Yes, I could get into CFE with the cardio equipment at the gym. Personally, I wish there was another CF box around here because I would love to workout in a group setting again. Oh well. Such is life. Perhaps one will open in the future. For now, I crossfit alone.

Niezels,Thanks for the info, I will definitely try it. Especially the breathing, I too was under the impression that I had to breath every 5 to 7 strokes so I found myself gasping when I tried to breathe every 5th stroke, so it's good to hear that breathin every other one isn't such a bad thing. I also like the finishing the stroke drill you suggested. Keep the tips coming.

Stijn did such a good job at covering stretching.

Here is another opinion from the other camp who doesn't suggest stretching:

" Instead, the best science suggests that an ideal preworkout routine “consists of a very easy warm-up, followed by a gradual increase in intensity and then dynamic stretching,” he said. Dynamic stretching, or exercises that increase your joints’ range of motion via constant movement, does not seem to invoke the inhibitory reflex of static stretching, Dr. Tucker said. When “you stretch through movement, you involve the brain much more, teaching proprioception and control, as well as improving flexibility.”

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/01/phys-ed-does-stretching-be...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/sports/playmagazine/112pewarm.htm...

Some would say stretching should be done in separate sessions from your workout:

http://www.trifuel.com/triathlon/general/the-session-often-forgotte...


Here are some more movements -- dynamic stretching:

http://www.active.com/running/Articles/Before-You-Run-The-Dynamic-W...


One thing's for certain: A very common mistake new triathletes make is to push too fast, too hard. And this certainly leads to injury. Take these steps to prevent injury:

* Slow down - especially in the first couple months of training.
* Take rest time off when you are prescribed rest.
* Don't increase monthly mileage or average speed too quickly over time
* Be aware of your body and how it feels. If it's tight, achy, or not happy, do something about it. (See dynamic stretching, Stijn's posts on stretching.)
* Act quickly on anything that's hurting --- don't deny it. Better to ease up and allow your body to adapt than to push through anything.
* Warm-up, cool-down: It's ok to start your workouts slow, and end them slow.
* Consider picking up yoga, getting occasional massages, and be nice to your body.

* Get plenty of protein in your diet, since this is what your body uses to repair itself.
* Make sure your equipment is good. Good bike fit, good running shoes.




Edited by robin314159 2011-01-25 6:29 PM

OK!

Next topic: Goals. How do you set sub-goals within each sport?

What are YOUR sub-goals for each sport, prior to your big races?

What kind of goals are the most useful ones?



And as always, if you have a question about anything, or just want to chat about your training, feel free to bring it up here!

@ Brian: With all the sports I have done in the past the fast majority was with a group or a club. Mostly the training sessions there had a solid warm up. As such I have been trained to do a proper warm up. Though it will differ from the workout.

On my relaxed work outs I only do a warm up in the form of starting very easy and after 5 minutes ramp up the intensity. On all my workouts I will do a cool down and stretching. If possible combined with a sauna at the gym.

Yes it does take up some time. But as a result (At least I want to believe so) I have never had any serious injuries I could have prevented (ie only injuries were broken fingers and stuff with american football).

In my progress: Decided to take the day off yetserday to give my muscles some rest. I feel I pushed to hard on my first strength workout. Not sure if I'll put in a run or swim tonight.

Stijn, Is American football very popular over there?

Goals:
My main goal has always been keep Oxygen going in and CO going out  (sorry I have a bad sense of humor)

I have found that posting my goals makes all the difference.  Last year I posted my training plan on our refridgerator and would write my actual times next to the planned times and distances.  I found that works well because it is a constant reminder.  I hope to get better at logging training online but will still use my paper copy as well.

Setting subgoals:
I have found that setting small goals helps me alot.

Running:  I set segment goals during the workout, for example: if my training plan says 30 min run, I will set a goal of how far I want to go during that time.  I like to setting these goals just before each session, as opposed to having it in the plan, it allows me to either tone down or amp up that training session depending on how I feel.  I also like being able to break up a run into intervals (ex: 5k = 1st mile under 10min, 2nd mile under 9min, 800 under 4min, and final stretch under 3min)

Cycling:  I set my goal here based on gear, cadence, and intervals.  For example: during a 60 min ride I will have a goal of doing 10 min of low gear (small front ring) with high cadence (100+), 20 min of high gear (big front ring) with regular cadence (70-80) and switch off during the ride.  The one thing I always try to do is spin hard up and down hills (cuz you can never get enough hill work)

Swimming:  Last year my only goal was to swim constant for a set time.  This year I have set two goals: 1) to get more minutes under my belt and 2)work on storke form and efficiency.

I have found that setting goals for each segment gave me the confidence so when I did my first tri (last year) I went in knowing I would finish and was able to set a goal as to how fast I would finish.  For that tri my goal was to beat the overall average time and I did it by almost 7 minutes (it was a cool feeling).

There's my two cents worth; I look forward to hearing what everyone else does.

Peace
KV