Are you really outraged? (Page 5)

Perhaps we should get Bloomberg on this health crisis... he could mandate it.

Yes it is, my bad Goosedog!  I overreacted I do believe (I'm chalking it up to increased training and mental fatigue!)...I am so pro-breastfeeding that I can sometimes get carried away, please accept my apology, I was being a doofus!

As for Bloomberg, how will he ever limit the amount of breast milk these kids are getting?  

I love how the last 3 pages of this thread have almost nothing to do with the original questions I posed.    

This thread has morphed from my original questions about the "breastfeeding issue" (in general, not in uniform - although I posted the wrong picture for my questions) to breastfeeding in uniform, to the penis and urinating to PMS and I think I even saw abortion mentioned. 

Can't wait to see where the next couple of pages go.  

(Please note I am not being a smart here)

The whole uniform issue aside I think this is great!

As another poster mentioned I have been treated poorly while breastfeeding in public.

I would also like to say to those who are unaware that pumping is not an option for all women. Even when I was breastfeeding TWO kids (I tandem nursed for over 2 years) I was never able to get more than a couple of ounces via pump. The other issue is a lot of breastfed babies will not take bottles or artificial nipples via bottle or pacifier - 4 of my 5 children would not take a bottle or paci.

In general most Americans are too caught up in the bewbs=sex. Breasts are AWESOME in all shapes and sizes and the fact that we can use them as their intended purpose to feed our children is incredible IMO! The breastfeeding rates in the US are dismal for many reasons. People being uptight about women breastfeeding in public is one of those reasons. Not having adequate facilities to nurse or pump while working is another.

Breastmilk is the best way to feed human babies so the easier we can make it for Moms the better.

I don't get why everything has to be a "cause" these days. A friend of mine BFs. Never really noticed. She has a blanket. We have gone out to dinner several times recently... it finally dawned on me she is feeding her kid.... like every 20 minutes... 3 or 4 times over the course of a dinner. There were no trips the the restroom, stares, dirty looks, condemnations, angry old prudish people chewing her out. No body cared. Is it really that big of a deal? And if you BFing you kid and do it 100s of times and once or twice says something to you, are you really shattered by it?

But hey, seems everyone needs a cause these days and the stigma of the lack of beauty in the male genitalia has reared it's ugly head once again. Why must men be subjected to such painful ridicule? How do we get a penis beauty awareness campaign going?

Probably because of what Kerikadi stated earlier...the % of women who BF in this country is low.  Do we as a nation want what's best for the future generation?  I sure do.  In our political threads we're always hearing about what we need to do to make the future better...getting past the stigmas that are attached to BF in this country would be a great thing towards doing just that.  

btw, powerman, I'm glad your friend did not have to deal with ignorant comments or being asked to leave...but just because she didn't doesn't mean others don't and won't have to deal with that nonsense in the future.

Penises or penes. Thesis, theses, parenthesis, parentheses, penis, penes. Eeeny weeny teeny penes!

No?

Okay ... as for the original question ...

I'm not sure what it would take to outrage me, but it'd have to be something on the order of insulting my mom's bewbs to her face. Not that anyone could take you seriously. At 78, she STILL has perfect breasts. Much nicer than my melons'll ever be and I haven't even had any suckling piglets yet!

That said ... I do find it strange that a lot of Americans ARE outraged at public breastfeeding ... read the online comments on articles regarding the Times cover, or on attachment parenting.

I live in a Muslim-majority country, where a good number of women totally cover up ... but everywhere I go, women are breastfeeding in public!

Another thing I don't get is what the age of the child has to do with it, and who gets to make that determination anyway ... and why should it be anyone except the child's parents, along with the child? Average weaning age in "traditional" cultures is WAY past toddler. What are people gonna do, allow public breastfeeding but not past XX months/years? Sorry, kid, but I gotta check your ID ... I think you're over the drinking age ... natch.

How much of that is stigma and how much of that is just mom's that don't want to hassle with it? Friend or not, I have never in my life time seen anyone "outraged" by public BFing. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just trying to put this into context. Is breast feeding "shunned" in this country, or is that American's don't care to do it, and when it is done, it is out of place?

In this country we have formula readily available. Not to mention that most parents these days are most happy when the kid can eat chicken nuggets and soft drinks. So BFing may be what is best for the child... but it does not seem that the majority of parents these days are doing much of what is best for their child's nutritional needs.

I'll just throw this out there... I apologize in advance if I am off base.... but in my limited childless experience, seems the ones shouting the most about BFing are the ones that use it as a badge of honor at how great they are at parenting. The yuppies that love to show off how great they are cause they read a book. I am not saying that at all about anyone in this thread because we are discussing a legitimate topic. My point is just that there is some vocal groups about the subject about what a travesty it is it isn't everywhere... yet if that was the case for the majority concerned about their kids health, we would not have the obesity problem we have. I hope I was clear enough making a point... it's not an attack on anyones opinion on the subject.

I think I agree with most of what you wrote powerman...and yes, it is sad that so many walk the path that is familiar and of least resistance, i.e. greatest ease.  It's just sad to hear so many poo-poo BF'ing because, "if formula was good enough for me when I was a baby, it's good enough for my kids"  or, "those baby experts just change their opinions every 30 or 40 years anyway."  Giving in to n=1 and scientific ignorance are sorry excuses.    

The one part I'd disagree is on the "badge of honor" point.  Maybe for some but I don't think the majority of pro-BF folks speak up to prove how great they are, they do it because every shred of scientific evidence out there shows proof-positive that formula is just not as good as BF.  Is it totally altruistic?  Oh heck no.  It's self-serving in that pro-BF advocates want their children growing up with healthier peers.  It's self-serving in that when pro-BF advocates grow old, the future generations are better able to care for their needs.  It's similar to folks who lead the fight against Big Tobacco.

btw, it's cool that you mentioned the obesity issue as childhood obesity's been repeatedly linked to formula use.   

Cool. I won't waste any time defending the "badge of honor" thought. Some other stuff I have been thinking lately about the "me me me" generation and who is it that does most of the talking.... nothing to do with this discussion.

I certainly am not discounting the merits of BFing. No argument there. I guess all I'm really saying is that I see this problem as less of a "shame" and awareness issue and more of a "American's and their bad habits" problem. The crowd here is obviously health biased, so it should not be a surprise to see much more support. The general public being what the general public is... probably not much a of a concern. 

And yes obesity is a problem. Not because everyone is not a walking picture of health... but because of our gluttonous society... but that is a whole other discussion.

The OP said it was about the topic, not the picture. Most here, and the article it links to was about the pic and not the topic. I understood what was said about mom's having the decision to say when is enough and no real "cut off time".... but the other thing that had BFing in the news recently was the Mom still feeding her teenager.... uh sorry... no way I can look at that picture and not think serious mental issues.

Pre-pumping and bringing a bottle doesn't help the mother, just the baby.  Your boobs still get full of milk and it hurts.

I get that it's not in the rules, but I think the rules may need to be adjusted if that is the case.

Until you've been there, it's impossible to know or understand the situation.  My daughter was born 5 months ago.  I struggled to breastfeed for 7 weeks, but due to low/no supply on my part no matter what I do (caused by my hypothyroidism) my daughter is now exclusively formula fed.

I will tell you that no matter what decision a mother makes she CANNOT win!  I got comments about breastfeeding in a mother's lounge at the mall.  It was specifically FOR feeding babies and I got nasty comments from another woman about it being "gross."  Now that I formula feed, I'm harassed because I'm not doing what's best for my baby.

Really, I don't understand why it's anyone's business except for the parents and the baby's/mother's doctor.  Women should do what is best for them and their family.  If that is nursing, great! If that's formula feeding, great!  The rest of us should be supportive and not be critical.  Nothing is going to be more likely o make me burst into tears no matter where I am than asking my why I don't breastfeed.  I hate that I can't and did everything I could, but people just judge and act like I'm a terrible mother.

So that got long.  It's not directed at anyone in particular - just a raw issue for me.

Ya, I don't have any experience just opinions. In this case that does not count for much. That sucks your experience is what it is. Obviously it is easy for me to sit behind a keyboard and just tell you what other people think does not matter, but it matters to you on a touchy subject. Sometimes people just suck. This discussion has been mostly about those that do or don't BF by choice... not much has been said about your perspective.

The fact folks were critical of you was not fair.  You gave it your best shot.  I think that's the difference.  There are many out there that don't even give it a shot.  You deserve applause, not scorn, in my opinion.  

x 100. Well said as I can totally relate and go even one better. I had extremely similar circumstances. Except that I only made it ten days with breastfeeding my first. At that point she was very nearly hospitalized from dehydration because I had almost no milk supply due to hypothyroidism and radiation treatments to my breast for Hodgekin's when I was 16. Now every doctor I saw knew about the radiation and all said bfing would be no problem. Ten days later with a very sick baby it was a lactation specialist who immediately knew my radiated breasts wouldn't produce sufficient milk. So we switched to formula, my baby got well and thrived and I was devastated and cried and cried because I couldn't breast feed. 15 mos. later I had ds and didn't even attempt for obvious reasons. One year after that, I learned that radiation wasn't the  only problem- my milk ducts were filled with breast cancer and I had both breasts removed.

I was actually told not too long ago by someone very close that the reason my son struggled in high school and my daughter didn't was because I at least gave her ten days of breast milk and didn't do any breastfeeding with my son. They felt I gave up too soon. Seriously- believe me I know all the benefits of bfing- I am a labor and delivery nurse and assist new moms with bfing all day long. But no- ten days of starvation did not make my daughter smarter in school. Actually my son is the smarter, brighter kid in the family he just isn't as dedicated to doing his work. It just amazed me how rude/ignorant people can be. I had to ask this "friend" then why does my third child struggle the most with school ( she truly has to work to earn her grades) unlike the other two who it was totally just choices they made that determined how well/poor they did. This person looked at me kind of crazy like- and actually said "DUH- well she wasn't breast fed either." However, what she wasn't aware of was that my sister had bf my niece who was six months older and produced an overabundance of milk. She always froze extra for just in case- and when my dd was born she thought that was an awesome just in case and she brought me a three month milk supply to the hospital. It was a beautiful gift that touched me more than anything. I can't help it- I RELISHED the stupid look on my "friend's" face when I informed her of that and that how I fed my kids and how they performed in school really was no business of hers anyway.

I realize that my situation is fairly rare and unique, and I do believe that bfing is better all the way around so I try not to be too offended when people get judgmental but like you it's a touchy subject for me and sometimes I just have to put people in their place. Especially when they are telling me personally what I should have done but don't really know their buttocks from a hole in the ground- lol.

We both fed our babies the best option available to us and it's not really anyone else's concern.

Shelly

I think it's total B.S. that anyone judges any mother for her choices.  ChineseDemocracy - I agree with you on many subjects, but in this thread it sounds like you are close to doing what you criticize others for doing..(judging people for their choice to Formula Feed).  

You are clearly very pro BF'ing because of the benefits of it to the baby - but I personally don't think there is anything wrong with formula either.  Millions of kids grow up very healthy, happy, intelligent and "normal" having been raised on formula - nothing wrong with that.  

No one should judge anyone for their choice.  It's the moms choice. Not to mention that there could be a million different reasons to formula feed or breast feed.  Choosing one or the other doesn't make you a good or bad mom, a better or worse mom....you are still a mom.  Not to mention, on the outside looking in, there is no way I (or anyone) could know (or has a right to know) all the factors that lead to your decision.  I don't care if it is just for "convenience" - you as the mother have a right to choose that.  My ex wife said it "hurt" to feed my son - gave up after a few days....doesn't make her a bad mom - and my kid constantly tests on the high end of all the testing and is a very well behaved child.  

My 2 cents. 

i love you girls for sharing, but makes me sad that you feel like you have to put out such lengthy stories to defend yourselves.  whatever your reason, as long as you are feeding baby and they are healthy and growing, who the heck cares how or why you did it!  HUGGSSSS

An update on the original story:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/14/woman-behind-military-breastfeeding-photo-fired-from-job/

The Washington state woman who orchestrated controversial photos of military moms breast-feeding their kids in uniform was fired from her civilian job as an X-ray technician and the women in the picture have been reprimanded, she said.

Two completely separate issues you're talking about.
The original issue was about breaking protocol regarding using a military uniform to further a personal cause.  

I want to call out a quasi- BS on that, but mostly because my memory is fading on it.

Although the media mixed the two issues into one (being breastfeeding versus activism in uniform), I do believe that the statements that I heard from the official sources started on the breast-feeding, but then quickly changed to the activism issue.

Again, I could be wrong.

However, I would still be skeptical.

Even if the activism wasn't an issue, I still think there would have been a stink.

Examples - I think someone would still take issue if these were candid photo's of a non-staged,  matter-of-fact nursing in uniform and then posted in a non-activist manner but managed to get forwarded to the wrong person...  or if they were photo'd surreptitiously and spread on the net.

I believe the OP asked about outrage to public breastfeeding and the thread almost immediately turned to outrage about breastfeeding in uniform.

Anyone think it is a tad strange that it is okay to kill someone while you are wearing a uniform but to breastfeed in uniform is wrong  (I know, I know these are soldiers and hopefully they are killing someone in armed combat but still!)