Where did all the BTers go? (Page 5)

I joined BT back in 2005 I think (dont' know exact date because when I try to click on my profile I get a dark screen blocking everything out).  Anyway, I used the site mainly for logging workouts and posting race reports for a few years.  As time went on I became more active giving advice and eventually started mentor threads for a few years.  It was a very social group way back then...you could go on chat at lunch and there would be 10-15 other people on there chatting away.  I never was a huge fan of COJ so I pretty much stayed away from it.  As has been alluded to earlier about being called an elitist, there were some posts I made that rubbed "beginners" the wrong way.  For example, someone was agonizing over whether they should take their spot for Team USA and I made the comment that qualifying for Team USA wasn't really that hard and it would be there in the future if you can't go it that particular year and you would think I kicked someone's mother in the stomach and was called an elitist.  I don't have much patience for that type of over-sensitivity and basically bow out of a thread when that happens.  Yes, this is beginnertriathlete, but is someone supposed to just leave the site and not express an opinion once they get a certain amount of experience under their belt?  It would be a huge loss of valuable information if that was the case.  My visitation on the site has gone thru peaks and valleys and now that I'm coaching I don't have as much time to spend on BT.  There are some good FB groups that have great discussions and I have been a reader on ST for many years and have had no problem sifting through the b.s. and getting good info on ST...especially info on certain IM race venues/courses.  I had a shoulder injury this spring that forced me to bail out of IM CDA this year so I took a break from BT but have recently started reading posts again and chiming in where I think I can help out.  I don't have a good feel for how the site re-design affected participation but there definitely are a lot of other social media options out there. 

I've always like this one...

"So, there were these 2 Irishmen walking OUT of a bar....."

I just flew into town... so i bit her

*edit... oh wait, did i mess that up

One thing this just made me think of.  I was a religious logger of workouts here as well, but now they're all just automagically created through Strava, so I don't have to enter them here anymore.

Most of my stuff does get migrated from Garmin Connect but not everything if I don't wear my 910xt for a particular workout.  I don't manually enter workouts on BT anymore so my BT logs make it look like I'm a slacker because there was no Garmin file to migrate for a particular day.  I've tried (unsuccessfully) to disconnect the link from GC to BT but it won't let me.

Joined here in 2008 when I first started tri. As most do I started in TT, then eventually moved to CoJ, back to TT when I was training for my IM and then back to CoJ. 

I don't think the new site has much to do with it, I actually prefer the new site.

What killed BT IMO is the mentor groups. I said the same thing in the "Decline of BT" thread and got whacked by the emotional crew. Every mentor group became it's own TT and CoJ in itself. When you have declining participation in tri in general and then split the forum up into 10-15 groups it is bound to die. Ron doesn't seem to care or prioritizes the mentor groups over the health of the main forums so it appears nothing will change. 

I miss some of the names here, and definitely miss the banter in CoJ in it's prime. I hang out in the OT at ST these days which is still very vibrant and no, it is not the hellhole people make it out to be. It just contains adults who can handle a conversation or confrontation without having to retreat to the safety of a mentor group. 

I have no answers as to why there was a sudden downturn, especially since there's some public opinion that it WASN'T about the site redesign. It seemed to coincide with the redesign so closely that it's hard to separate, at least in my mind.

My own history... I signed up here in January 2006. I'd been on ST for many years (several forum versions back -- my profile date there doesn't reflect the actual creation  as we had to re-create them with one of the redesigns), and TNO for a little while before I found BT. It was my second entry into the tri world, after a few year away. Initially I was only on the Tri-Talk and Gear forums, as I didn't see COJ as having much interest to me. I loathe political discussions. But I also found my wife on BT, so there's a special place in my heart for this place.

Anyway, I still use BT as my primary log. Strava doesn't log trainer time. Even though I'm only biking now, I like being able to track hours and miles and such. I still check in a couple times a day here, but find that I don't have a lot to contribute.

My involvement on ST is mainly to check the classifieds. I've added Velocipede Salon, and it has become my main active forum (many framebuilders active there).

Agree. 

Too many different "silos" on BT now that isolate the members and discussions.  

Mark 

I've been on here since 2010 and have met some pretty cool folks.  I see the mentor groups and TT/COJ the same way I see the town I live in.  I know a lot of people in town by name or sight (TT or COJ) but don't have a lot of interaction with them on a daily basis.  The mentor group is more like my neighborhood.  I know everyone, we chat back and forth about a variety of things, and it is a bit easier to keep track of them.  I guess it depends on what you want to get out of the site as to what type of experience you are having.  

Originally posted by skipg

Originally posted by skipg

Originally posted by Atlantia I can't believe all the activity this thread is getting! I found BT in 2004 and used a free program to get across the line of my first tri. Didn't make an account and start logging until 2005, and even then I was never super active. I came and went, as I never really got bitten hard by the tri bug, but I liked the people and support. The Challenges were my favorite, and I attribute my good fitness in 2007 to the Challenge Forum, 100%. (Those legs....Halloween Running Challenge 07) Anyway, I never spent a ton of time on the forums, and honestly I seemed to be a bit of a thread killer. I'd post on a nice active thread and *poof* gone. Just checking to see if that's still the case this time around. Now I'm off to log some pizza time

pizza...does that still mean what I think it means on here? Nice to see a little activity on here.

or it wasn't pink or red so I'm confused!

No. Italics.  Pizza and pizza are two different things.  

I disagree that the Mentor Groups are the problem.  They have been around since as long as I can remember, even during the days when BT was booming - a TAN would be done in a couple days and there were 20 new COJ threads added a day and tons of TT posts AS WELL as a huge number of mentor groups booming.

My gut feeling is that for some reason, there was a slight shift in tone across the board.  Just a bit more hostility/confrontation/snarkyness.  Whether it was from certain people or a general shift?  I don't know.  I think everyone probably expects SOME level of argument and controversy that comes with a public forum, but I think there was just a slight (maybe almost imperceptible) shift to "this is no longer fun/acceptable anymore". 

If I were to almost put my finger on it, there was a moment in time when the political environment was very heated in the nation.  There were politics, gun control issues, marriage issues, etc that were REALLY hot at the time.  Things were getting so heated and a division in BT was being created, they had to even make a political forum and crack down on how people were interacting.  I think that showed there was a pretty strong division within BT with verbal shots being fired almost constantly.  I just think people got worn down and walked away rather than continue.  I don't think BT was happy triathlon community anymore, but almost two large political groups constantly taking shots at each other .  A triathlon family feud perhaps?  There definitely was a TAN vs anti-TAN division that made me weary.  There was some pretty strong criticism and verbal battles from both sides of that fence - and no one side was perfect - but for ME, I felt like I had better things to do than defend myself online every day.

I think the slight shift in how people interacted had people retreating to mentor groups because those are smaller groups generally not open to just any opinion, or controversy, or trolls, or what have you.  I think people just left BT because they got tired of the verbal sparing.  That's probably why the mentor groups may seem like the cause - but I think they were the symptom.  A sanctuary from regular BT.  Again, I'm not saying that BT was some rough/bad place (shoot, I don't even say that about ST and we all know they had fewer filters).  But maybe just enough to get people to leave BT or find their "happy place" in a mentor group.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post.  I try to surround myself with happy, positive, and friendly people.  Life is too short to deal with the opposite.  If I am going to do anything voluntarily, I would hope it would bring some kind of joy/fun/satisfaction.  I remember when BT was FUN.  I was on it all day (or at least had the page open when I worked).  I couldn't wait to talk to the people on-line, read advice, give advice, read the jokes, banter, etc.  When it turned into more arguments and disagreements and attacking and defending?  It was no longer fun and I had much better uses for my time.  It was a little painful to not have BT as big a part of my social life, but when I felt an overall decrease in tension and controversy?  I knew it was a bit toxic for me.  It was nice not having to avoid people or topics or defending myself all day.

Talking about all the political stuff made me think of where the real fault lies...   Site started to decline shortly after 2008, so it's obviously Obama's fault (or was it Bush).  lol  (sorry, couldn't resist)

On a serious note, there were definitely some heated debates (admittedly I was in a few of them) but I'm not sure how much that bled over into TT and the groups.  For me, I was on the site for almost 2 years and somebody in TT made a comment about COJ and I had no clue what it even was and had to ask.  I checked it out, but it wasn't really Tri talk so I didn't hang out there.  It wasn't until after I stopped doing Tri's that I wandered into COJ just to chat. (plus TT was the same threads/questions over and over and over and over and over)

I don't think much bled over into TT.  I've always posted there more than anywhere else.  (BTW, I'd have sworn I've seen a summary of all my posts by forum, but can't find it now.  Anybody know where that's found?)  I've never spent much time here in COJ.  I'm here for the athletics discussion.  I have enough friends and family to irritate with political discussion.    Other than the occasional random reference in TT to an inside joke about something in COJ, I've never noticed animosity that appeared to be personal.  Most of the debates / arguments there are either the result of trolls or legitimate disagreements of opinion regarding training & racing.

well there was a time where people in TAN would talk garbage about other users....openly in a forum everyone could see.  That was lame.

Lame, yes.....but still, it was pretty funny coming from some of them.

always find it funny when grown men and women come to the internet to play high school

o.k.  So I finally finished reading this whole thread.  And you're all wrong.

O.k. not really.  I do believe the site change had a lot to do with it.  It became very hard to follow and communicate with friends.  And for those of us that brought that up we were summarily knocked down by Ron and Moderators.  They didn't want to hear it.  Also, while I know a lot of my old friends burned out and stopped Tris.  And I haven't raced in 2 years.  The sign of a strong sight is new people joining and keeping it going.  That is what this site is missing.  For all of us that have been here since 2004, where are the new people that could make this site fun?

I do think the forums are the lifeblood of a site. I found that the splitting of forums to create "safe areas" where people would be "safe" diluted the forums too much.  They tried to be everything to everyone.  And people definitely became to sensitive.  Sometimes you'd be suprised by how people can resolve their own problems.  No need to ban everyone.

I remember so many conflicts. 

• You can't tell people to eat less and they'll lose weight.
• You can't use the term Bike Porn
• You can't tell someone they are wrong.  (Even if you can cite proof)
• Guns, Politics, etc.  Must go to their private corner
• Can't talk about Steroids or PED
• Can't complain about Ironman
• Can't complain about triathlon products (bikes, Shoes, etc)

It became boring to be here.  Mentor groups were fine for some people but I found that it wasn't a good fit for me.  People there didn't want to talk about what I wanted to talk about.  

So I stopped hanging out here.  I do come by maybe once a week and check things out,  but I go read things at ST everyday.  I don't post in either place much.  And I do really miss the old BT!!!!

I wish Ron and Team cared as much as all of us on this thread, but not even a peep in 5 pages.  Not Surprised. 

Oh, yes, definitely saw this on some of the occasions that I'd check in here at COJ.  I was saying that it seems to be rare to see it carry over into TT.

I think switch called someone out for it and it turned into a big argument.  

Thank you all for the candid input, I've been watching this before giving my thoughts.  As a few said, many of these things were said in a massive thread a year or so ago.  Honestly, it was hard for me to mentally pull the trigger on some changes even though your arguments were good regarding the forums - I didn't want to PO 'the other side'.  The internet has changed with FB which has affected many forums but there are several things from this thread that I can do to improve this one. 

1 - What forums need consolidation?  I honestly don't think we need to take it down to 1 or 2, but I agree a lot can be consolidated.  Any thoughts?

2 - For many years in the past, the forums were super-mod'ed by someone other than me while I did the other site stuff...a lot of stuff happened to people that in retrospect, I was not fully aware or involved in, and in many situations I would have handled things differently.  I apologize for this, it is purely my own fault for how I set things up thinking it would make me more efficient - I should have been the main contact for forum situations.  Right now I am the only one that gives any warnings, bannings, etc...and I haven't done that for 'normal' forum situations for nearly a year.  

3 - Mentor groups.  I hear you.  It makes sense.  It's kind of why I didn't restart a summer mentor group.  Are there any people FOR the mentor groups?  Can mentor-group activities happen in the main forums?  What's going to bring the people that like the mentor forums back to the main forums?  This paralyzes me as it's an unknown.

Properly executing on item one can help things out a lot, and is easy to do.