Baowolf's Beginner Banquet -Sorry all tables are full no room.. (Page 52)

I had a couple random thoughts hit me lately that I haven't shared with you guys.  After long races (full mary, HIM, IM) I am either hot and wet from the temps and dowsing myself with water for 3-4 hours or cold because I just spent 3:30 in 40F temps in the rain and in either case my body temp tends to drop like a stone after races.  You can't warm up in wet sweaty clothes, so having a compltely dry outfit nearby is really important for me.  I have about 15 minutes to get into something dry and preferably excessively warm or I will start shivering and I imagine hypothermic in 30 minutes.  I also tend to do triathlons where T1 and T2 are not in the same place and point to point marathons.  So having dry stuff even if it is raining is really key.  Also if it is going to rain my shoes are in a plastic bag in T2.  Yes they will get wet in 2 minutes anyway, but they are easier to put on if they are dry and at least they slowly get wet instead of just squish as you put your foot into a shoe full of cold rainwater.  I need a lot of fluids after a long race and I mean a lot.  I usually go through the first 40 ounces relatively quickly (10 minutes) and then nurse my next 40 ounces over the next 30 minutes and then settle down with the next 20 to 40 ounces for the rest of the evening.  Sometimes I develope an exhertion related cough that just won't go away right after the race.  I have found that just 1 or even half a cough drop (halls, vicks, whatever) makes that stop pretty quickly and then I am good for the rest of the day/night whatever.  After longer races I typically am not that hungry.  After 3000 calories of GU and waterbottles full of water/sugar/salt mix you feel a little hungry, but not so much.  I usualy graze a bit, but end up taking like an hour to get through the equivalent of dinner (sandwhich, salad, fruit, a couple cookies and ya fluids).   

This stuff won't hit you for a sprint, oly or half marathon, but full mary or HIM/IM and you may find some of the same things going on. Anyway just more stuff to think about.  One reason triathletes talk about triathlon so much is their brains are so full of all this information.   

My general philosophy about races is that they have my money, I'm gona finish the race.  And well ya then later there is that be a good example to my kids, etc.... what order depends on how much it hurts.   

Yes, the pro race was the big draw.  Greg Bennet, Cameron Dye, Andy Potts, Sara Haskins, etc.  As I was riding up the hill the first 1/2 mile or so out of transition, I noticed a blonde gal starting out on the run route (parallel to the bike route up to that point) with a bib that said SWE on it.  Looking at the pro listing now, it must have been Lisa Norden, the pro female winner.  I had no idea who she was at the time.  What caught my attention is that I could hear her breathing pretty hard going up that hill just like I was. 

MTA: Dennis, I know you like a good bargain, so wanted to share that the US Open only cost $75 when I registered.  You could run with the pros too....or bike with the pros while they are running. 

Steve, more good advice.  I so appreciate all that you share with us.  I have noticed a similar chill effect even after shorter distances.     

Yeah, just hanging on to that last part. 

Speaking of which, finally picked out a 1/2 mary plan.  This one http://www.runningplanet.com/training/half-marathon-training-program-beginning.html  incorporated the elements Steve mentioned, so picking up in week 4.   Also had a good dinner with some other folks w/ type 1 diabetes last night.  Nice newly diagnosed young man joined us and wants to do his first 1/2 marathon.  It was good to be able to encourage him, and also get some encouragement from the rest of the group to do better in some areas where I've been slacking.    

Samantha, do you have a plan you are following?  Dennis, how about you?  Steve, seems like you craft most of your plans yourself, or do you at loosely base your training off a pre-written plan? 

My training has been screwy this year.  From the broken collar bone to the Boston marathon with an IM 3 months later and muscle issues kind of all season if you include shoulder recovery to hamstring to calves and right foot. 

So this year I compared 3 IM plans, melded them in with the marathon plan so as I recovered from the marathon I could hit the IM plan full force.  So I had more swim and bike than was ideal for the marathon and less swim and bike base than was ideal for the IM.  So I needed to build the bike faster than I would have liked, do the swim as much as my shoulder would allow (hit overuse issues 3 times) and maintain the run.  I had to tweak out intensity work following Boston and just focus on endurance so I wouldn't have dropoff on the bike or run (as much).  So not a lot of speed building so much as resiliance to drop off.  So for the marathon training I subbed bike on cross train days or instead of running a 3 mile recovery I would bike 40 miles.  In the IM plan I wanted to keep more run and bike days then the plan required, but keep the same swim.  So ya for this year I tweaked things.  Even during the plan I had to make adjustments for fatigue and muscle issues.  I did, however have a plan on paper I was following, it was just my plan following the rules of plan building (periodization).  I like to have 6 months between a mary and an IM which allows me to do each plan with more intergrity (2 months base, 1 month build 2 months intensity and peak and 1 month peak/taper).

I can fit Oly, HIM's etc into IM training, but a marathon is a different beast.  Going bike focused this winter may kill me... giving up so much run time.  I am still thinking about what will be a good balance. 

Plan building is complicated if you don't follow a standard plan.  It isn't rocket-surgery, but you are looking at balancing about 12 variables with how certain workouts long vs intensity etc., impact fatigue/overuse.  It is less critical for shorter races, but as you build to 25 hours + per week it gets harder.    

Carol- just so you know that plan is pretty agressive.  I am not super comfortable with you doing so much speedwork.  If you keep the plan exactly as is, keeping the 1600 (1 mile) repeats in there (maybe starting at 1, then 2 as base building before you start this plan) and then turning the 800 repeat day into a tempo run instead that would probably be better.  This is an early advanced plan and you are more of beginner/intermediate runner (in the competitive world definition kind of way).  With that one tweak and some good base building before you start this plan you could be ok.  But feel free to drop one of your other runs per week into a steady state run instead of a negative split run if you are building fatigue too fast.  If you find your times decreasing from week to week you may need to throw in an extra rest day.  You also will have to really cut back on bike and swim to tolerate the intensity.

Dennis - glad you are recovering well. I just realized yesterday that I have a friends bike trainer sitting at my house that I can use. It is nothing fancy, but I consider it a sweet gift I can use until I can get something nice. How'd the shoes work? I think, for the first time ever, I need new shoes because I have so many miles on my current shoes. I think that is pretty cool!

Carol - Your perspective is great! Sometimes I think just being out there with people who are fast is cool because you are going to complete the same race as them, but slower. So I like the quote about not getting easier, just faster. You learned so much more about yourself through the challenge than if all had gone smoothly! Yes, i am able to get out and ski a bit. The camp I work at has free passes to a hill about 45 minutes from here. Lots of fun!

Steve - I can imagine how much more the cold kicks in on longer races. I noticed it after my Oly. The temperature outside was cool and I definitely cooled off quickly. Thanks for the extra incentive to be prepared for that, and I never realized the amount of water I would need to take in. Yeah for the archery range and your recovery being nearly done. You had a crazy year for recovery on several levels.

Carol - you asked what is next for me. I am still figuring that out. I really want to sign up for a HIM next fall, but I haven't been able to find one that is relatively close to me. The one I did find is in Boulder, CO, but I am not sure I could be ready for a course like that one. I didn't look at it, but I know what that area is like and I am sure there are some crazy hills on the bike and run. All the other races are earlier and I am not sure I can get the out of winter training in I would need to be ready. The other part of my plan is a OLY in spring, as well as a half-mary. Still working things out financially as well so I know I can afford to enter these races. For now I will continue building my bike and run. Did 6 miles the other day and was really happy to go that distance, still feel good, and not have the push of a race to keep me motivated.

Have a great day!

Funny question.  For the first time ever I got over ambitious.  I know, I couldn't believe it either.  I knew to just do a mile in the Newtons for the first week but since I already had a good mid-foot strike I knew I'd be fine doing 2 miles. I felt fine until yesterday afternoon.  Then my calves started to feel weird.  Today they are sore as hell.  I've read it tons of times from people adjusting their stride to a more mid/fore foot strike that their calves hurt the next day.  Now I'm experiencing it.

Tomorrow I plan to do a few miles in my trusted Mizunos and then doing a 1 mile recovery run on Thursday.  We'll see how that works out.

Just to be clear... I am not saying everyone has to down 120 ounces of water after a race.  After an 11-12 hour race I need a lot of fluids... Mostly you will know if you need fluids because you will be thirsty.  Don't force more fluids than your body is asking for after the race.  A good test is to try to eat a cracker, pretzel, something dry and see what your mouth does with it.  If you can eat a handful no problem you are fine.  If your mouth feels like it is full of sawdust... not so much, get some fluids.  Fruit is great after a race because you can eat it, not too sweet and comes with its own moisture.  The heat, number of hours, level of exhertion and personal sweat rate and need for fluids all varies, so just something to be aware of as yall start doing longer races.  There is a medical condition from drinking toooooo much water that is bad... hyponatrimea or some such.  Don't do that either.  Basically you flood out all of your electrolytes with too much straight water and no salt/potasium and then you are in the hospital.   

Do not overdue it on minimallist shoes!  My wife is out of running for several months with achilies issues from her minimalist shoes when she upped the mileage somewhat... after running in only those shoes for 2 years at low mileage (5-8 miles weekly).

Well I got on the trainer tonight.  I had downloaded one of the Spinerval DVDs.  That was the toughest 45 minutes I ever spent on a bike.  There was no way I could do everything that sadist wanted me to.  I had 2 cheap $10 box fans on me, didn't help at all.  Going to get one of the big 3' floor fans from my work before I do the next one.

So what other workouts can you do on the trainer besides things like Jorge's and Spinerval DVDs?  I think I would go crazy spinning at 90 in a comfortable gear for 2+ hours.  Maybe that's what I'll do for longer rides though as the other is obviously too intense for long rides.

I don't currently plan on making the Newtons my primary shoe.  My Mizunos have done me well.  I ran in Brooks Green Silence for a while in the spring.  I started getting hip pain though.  Two separate shoe stores told me the problem was that the shoe breaks down pretty fast and that 150 miles was their lifetime.  That's when I went to the Mizuno Wave Rider 14.  I like them but felt my gait was getting a little sloppy in them due to the way they are built.  That's why I purchased the Newtons.  I wanted something to run in a couple times a week to help me correct my stride.  I intend on all longer runs staying in the Mizuno.  Of course I've been known to change my mind 5 minutes later when I get a wild hair to do so.  I only learn from my mistakes it seems.

Thanks for the advice though.  So your wife's achilles, what actually happened to it?  I've always been more prone to leg issues than feet issues so I do need to look out there because I tend to think they are unbreakable.

Steve, wow, you really did have a lot of variables to juggle this year!  Sorry to hear about your wife's achilles issue, tendons are hard to heal.  Thanks so much for your input on the 1/2 schedule.  Thinking about what you said and fitting in a little biking....might sub a bike ride for the shorter interval stuff and also bike on one other low mileage running day.  I looked at Hal Higdon Intermediate plan, and it looked too light to me.  Also grabbed another plan that's kind of in between the two, but seemed low on the mid week mileage.  Figure I can drop back into one of those if I start to get overcooked. 

Samantha, OK, I'm jealous again!  Ski hill in your backyard too?!  Do you ski or board?  Great job getting some running in without a race looming.  I know that's your least favorite part.  Nice score on the trainer too.  Free is good!  I don't know if this one would work for you, but Austin 70.3 is later this month.  I don't know if they are doing that one again next yr, but might be good timing for you.  Kinda far away from where you are....but maybe some cheap airfares would make it an option for you.  Another gal here on BT from Austin and I swapped hosting each other for races so we could both save on hotels and it worked out great.

Dennis, glad you caught your too much/too soon shoe issue in time!

My wife's achilies is not bad, she can walk around life with no issue, but can't jog on it without pain at this point. 

The general rule for the flats is around 10 percent of your total weekly mileage.  I would start off with around  mile max for the first 2 weeks, 1.5 mile max for the 2nd 2weeks, 2 miles for the next month, 2.5 for the next 6 weeks, 3 for the next 6 weeks... etc.  (2x per week) That may seem pretty conservative, but I have read too many really bad calf issues.  Also you need to strengthen and stretch those calvs 2-3x a day if you are going to convert more miles to the flats.

Hrm, I watch netflix on my trainer.  I have done 100 miles on it continuous.  You can get IM bike vids and ride the course. I was trying to figure out a way to puts on the computer while riding.  Not sure I can do that while aero.  Watching action movies where people are running away from like a T-Rex can help for TT on the bike trainer.  Music at the right pace can help also.     

Bike computer or athletic trainer?  Gotta have both.  I don't see how you could effectively use the trainer without a cadence monitor.  I suppose you could go straight off of heart rate.

Speaking of trainers.  I check craigslist constantly because I believe a tri-widow will get made on day and sell her husbands P3 for $200 one day and I don't want to miss that bargain.  Didn't find that today but I did see this fluid trainer for $60.  What a sweet deal.  Hadn't seen a trainer on there for weeks until I buy one.  So much for my bargain.  Looks like I paid 5 times too much.

How's the calf.  Fine.  I ran a short 1.25 miles this morning in my Mizunos.  No issues.  I bought the Newtons to help me get a better mid-foot strike than I felt I had in the Mizunos.  The Newtons practically force you to strike mid-foot.  That is my primary reason for buying them.  Plus I'm a sucker for anything that makes me look cooler(dorkier).

I did a little under 1.5 hours on the trainer tonight.  I used Spinervals 16 - Aero Builder I.  That was more like it.  Stayed in Z2-3 the whole time. This is not a HIT workout like the other one was.  I can recommend it.  And let me add, an iPad with these DVD ripped onto it is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Throw in the bluetooth headphones and I'm in heaven.  I really enjoyed tonight's ride.  

The only thing else going on is that I have officially decided to not do any part of my marathon (not even the half).  I was asked to volunteer at one of the aid stations today.  I figure that would be the best way for me to participate.  I'm still going to packet pickup to get my $85 t-shirt. 

Something regarding lots of liquids.  Make sure you have enough salt in your system to handle that much water.  Not enough salt, too much water will actually flush out your electrolytes and practically dehydrate you.  It's a balancing act.

Hey there group.  OK, so there's only 4 of us still posting, but 4=group, right?

Steve, once you figure out how to mount the laptop on your bike, we need a post from the trainier.

Samantha, lots can happen between now and next October, so hopefully things will open up for you to do Austin 70.3 or some other half IM.

Dennis, good for you for volunteering at the marathon!  Bet you wind up with two shirts....one for the race, one as a volunteer.  Win, win .

Group bike ride this morning, and then headed over to a DESA (diabetes exercise & sports) meeting. Looks like a few of us from the group are going to do the White Rock 1/2 Mary, which I was planning on doing anyway.  Also got some good tips/encouragement on restarting my continuous glucose monitor.  It's been in the closet for a while due to having trouble keeping it attached while swimming/sweating, callibration issues, nightime alarm issues interrupting sleep, etc.  One of our members is now a trainer for the company that makes it, so got some great real life vs. what it says in the manual info, and a few samples of various things to help keep it attached.  Anyway, I'm excited about integrating that with training and life again.  As for the half mary training, it's going well so far.  Legs are holding up nicely and I'm ready to roll on a longish run in the morning.       

Did a little 2 mile run this morning and a 22 mile trainer ride tonight.

I gotta take my bike into the shop this week.  I have a squeak coming from my crank it seems.  Not sure what it is but I bet they can figure it out.  Kinda hate to be without my bike.  Hopefully it will be a quick fix.  And a freebie since the bike is less than a year old and i just paid to have it services.  

My son cranked out a 1:32:xx for his first half mary, moderately under trained for it.  The boy has some speed, he has some other issues, but he definately has some speed.  He finished 2nd in age group and 8th overall.  If I could just buy him a little self-discipline.  Oh well youth is wasted on the young. 

Moved another 2000 pounds of dirt today.  getting closer to done.  I went to the only 2 sportingoods stores in town... they cary no archery supplies not even a single cheap wooden arrow.  At least they knew what archery is... and we have bowhunting in this area.  One would think bow supplies might sell as the season opens in a week or 2. 

Steve, congrats to your son!  Was he excited?  Plenty of time for self discipline later on if you ask me, but then I don't have to live with a teenager.  My friend's teen son did his first 1/2 mary a couple of months ago and was rather nonchalant about the whole thing.  Of course he's kind of in that phase where he gives one word answers to everything...if you're lucky enough to get that.

Dennis, what did your squeak turn out to be?  My bike has had one for about a month.  I am hoping to make it to a shop ride this evening and probably drop it off after that.  I thought it was the seat since changing whether I'm forward or back in it seemed to make a difference.  Tightened that up.  But it continued to happen, even when I was standing at the end of a hill yesterday, so something with a crank or a pedal I guess.

Really enjoying running these days, and the weather is perfect for it (high 50's to low 60's in the mornings).  One more sprint tri on 10/30, so trying to keep up a little bit of swim/bike, but my heart is not really in anything but running right now.  Hubby & I are going to the state fair tomorrow....first time in years.  All the fried junk food turns my stomach, but I'm definitely ready for a smoked turkey leg!    

This is kind of the hard point in the season.  All/most of the races are over, energy level is down, motivation is not great, cold weather, rain, work piles up, kids in many activities, holidays and lack of a training plan to focus on.  I looked up Jeorge's bike training program yesterday.  It only has like 6 hours of biking a week, but it looks to be almost 80 percent of the time at LT or close to it.  Esentially bike till you drop for 1 hour 3x a week and 2-3 hours once a week with varying intervals.  He claims folks have good results so I guess it is time to put up, shut up or call 911.  I'll let ya know how it goes.  I spent lastnight reclaiming my workout room.  The kids had moved in with all their junk when our main TV went down for a 2nd time.  Those manufacturers just have this product degridation down to a science.  At exactly 1500 hours of use the color wheel will go, at 1600 hours the bulb will go, at 1700 hours the power supply will go and at 1800 hours the thing blows up and burns down your house.  Funy that the TV I bought 25 years ago is stil working fine.  Gogo American workmanship.

So anyway make some offseason plans if you don't have any.  Gaining back 10 pounds, recoverying your nagging injuries and then easing back into things after a month off is not an uncommon approach.  Try to not get lost when your workouts decrease.  There is the dangerous gravity well of the couch during football season.  Some never escape.

Yeah, I'm having trouble taking it easy.  I want to still train 10+ hours a week.  It was my therapy.  So I'm trying a few new things.

• Strength training as I mentioned earlier.  Mark Allen's 12 Best Strength Exercises  For the first time I'm actually enjoying doing weights.
• Starting my running back at square one.  And with that I'm going to try some new things there also
• Changing over to km from miles. Just to mix things up and make them more interesting. I'm easily ammused
• Breaking out the old HR strap.  Using my guestimate of MRH of 185 and RHR of 50, trying to make my runs all in zone 2.  Before I never used the HRM and if I did, I always was running in high 3, low 4.  I figure doing it all in zone 2 while keeping a high cadence will be a safer way to progress.  It's actually a challenge to keep HR low/cadence high
• Starting off low distance again.  Short runs 2k, med. 4k, and long 6k.  Going to increase about 10% a week but do a rest week every 3rd just doing 66% of previous week
• Swimming - going to actually try to do some total immersion stuff to get better at my technique.  I've put some feelers out for coaches for a few lessons and some guidance.  Everybody I have found assumes I don't have a day job and wants to do it at 11:00 on a Tuesday.
• Biking has been the trainer.  It must be that it is new but I am loving the trainer.  I have a ton of videos for it: 20 spinervals, 4 of the Rides from Endurance Filmsm etc.  Once again trying to stay in zone 2 mostly.  At least for another month.  I want to hit it hard though.

So that's how I am trying to stay going without overdoing it.  By next week I'm sure my plans will have changed but for now that's where I'm at.  

I like running top of zone 2 for longer runs.  Your LT Hr sounds high, but I know there is a huge variation in that. Did you set that from a TT run test?  Your bike LT will be different than your run LT, so you need to do a TT there to set it as well.  Your trainer LT may even be different than your outdoor LT.... but you just need a ballpark so don't obsess there. 

I put my trainer tire on lastnight now that there is snow in the moutains and frost on the grass.  I just hate changing the tires in and out all the time, so I will just be trainer bound for from here on.  Back on the bike lastnight after 6 weeks off... was interesting.  I got fatigued really fast when trying to get my HR up around 160.  I only had time for 45 min, but that is probably for the best.  I am still planning on not doing a full mary this winter (at least this week that is the plan).  I may do a half mary at some point and hit it moderately hard, but not fully training for it.  I hope to settle into a 30 ish mile per week run and 4 to 5 days bike with 3 intense.  I found out on the bike lastnight that I still have a bunch of crud in my lungs.  A series of colds is probably not helping with motivation.

I haven't tested my LT at all.  I am using the old guessing MRH of 220-age and other formulas.  I also have looked at some of my heart rate info from hard runs/ride and notice that when it gets really intense I hit around 182 max ever.  So it's just a guess.  If I had to give you a LT guess, I would say around 170 because I know during hard 5k runs where I put it all out for 20+ minutes, my HR averaged around 170.  I currently count Z2 as being between 131-144.  I want to do a TT on the bike this week and then wait a week or 2 to do one on the run.

I haven't purchased a trainer tire.  I still have 2 older tires from a few months ago when I put new ones on.  So I just put one of them on my rear wheel.  I plan on an outdoor ride every week or two and I too didn't want to swap tires.  It's in good enough shape to get me wherever I want to go.  The tire probably had 1,000 road miles left on it easily.

Alright, well if you want to use HR you need to run a TT when you are back in shape for it.  Your 5k hr will be off because it will lag for the first half mile or so until it gets up to speed.  If you have seen 182 on your hrm then it is probably in the high 170s  perhaps 180.  My run LT hr is 175 and top of Z2 is 159.  Top of your Z2 is probably 163.  So if you are running in the low 160s you are probably fine for longer runs and you can go up to 166 or so on shorter runs once or twice a week.  Your 400 repeats will be at LT or 180 ish.  But ya don't use the generic formula.  My bike LT is 160 ish, completely different than my run LT.  Maybe 165, but I have to ride another TT to test it next week. 

So after all this wimping around I was able to run today with no sore anything anywhere in my legs.  That took longer than I was hoping.  I guess that century with the 7500 ft climb was too soon.  So 2 months of mostly rest leaves me out of shape again and a few pounds heavier, but feeling good.  I am adding the bike in this week and feel things out from there.   

hey all. Logged my workouts today. its feels good to see numbers in my plan. I definitely feel the dreariness of weather and I am currently fighting a cold...yuck! I am looking at buying gear for the winter and that is somewhat motivating to get me out because I get to use new stuff.

I am still struggling to know what to buy regarding a bike computer and the thing you wear on your wrist. Some seem to do everything and some seem to have more of a specific purpose. I think I really want to get a bike ocmputer so I can keep track of mileage while on the trainer and I want to know how my cadence is doing as well. I have been using my phone to track my runs for time and distance and that works pretty well. Would I benefit from having one of the wrist things? Not sure what they are actually called. I am also getting bike lights, gloves and wet weather stuff. I have a hope I will be able to be outside because even though I live in Montana I live in a warmer area and don't know if ice will be a regular problem on the highway. Any thoughts about that.

Steve- glad to hear you are ready to get back at it. It is crazy how long it takes to recover from an Ironman. I never would have guessed that. Your son really did great in his race; how cool!

Dennis- I hope you find a good coach. The little I picked up from TI swimming was super helpful. I miss swimming so much. I know you said I really need both, regarding computer and wrist thing, so I am not trying to ignore what you said. I just don't understand. I have been researching but don't feel I understand what I am reading.

Carol - HI!